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Old 01-19-2006   #1
HeartofHouston
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Default We HAVE the DE's for a 4-3... Here's Why...

** Sorry i put this in the reply, but I meant to put it as a new post.. **

Every time people start talkin about us switching the 4-3 then.. somebody says.. "Peek and Babin are big enough to play DEs.." (main Peek being the target for this)

Lets take a look at some of the good NFL Defensive Ends...

Simeon Rice - 6'5, 268
Dwight Freeney - 6'1, 268
Javon Kearse - 6'4, 265
Alex Brown - 6'3, 262
Leonard Little - 6'3, 261
Adewale Ogunleye - 6'4, 260
Terrell Suggs- 6'3, 260
Jason Babin - 6'2, 259
Jason Taylor - 6'6, 255
Antwann Peek - 6'3, 250
Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila - 6'4, 250
John Abraham - 6'4, 248
Robert Mathis - 6'2, 235

Okay.. now here are some of the premier DEs in the NFL.. all of them have posted digits sack numbers and have been very important for their team.. if you look above you see their height and weight also.. Peek and Babin are right in the range of the "average size" DE in the NFL.. Lets say that they both put on 5lbs.. they will both be even better off against the run.. and with the season not starting for another 8 months how hard is it to gain 5 pounds of rip in 8 months???... I'm gonna go with NOT HARD AT ALL.. when i played high school ball (with no personal trainer) I went from 167 my junior year to 198 my senior year.. and trust me it wasnt fat.. I stopped messing around going out and getting in trouble and I went to gym instead.. These guys have personal trainers and conitioning coaches.. so it should be 3times easier for them..

Some all this talk about "we dont have the right DE's, they are undersized mess should cease".. We should put these guys back to what they knew in college and that's being in a 3 point stance letting them get after the QB.. I say we resign Peek for 2 years, put him and Babin at DE.. and draft a good DE.. Kamerion Wimbley, Victor Adeyanju or Daryl Tapp..

Let all three of the battle it out and see who comes out on top. This 3man battle will ignite a fire in our DEs knowing that they really have to get batter in order to start next year. If Peek doesnt add enough wait or doesnt perform as well as people we want him to then he'll be our "Robert Mathis" situational/relief DE.. Tapp, Babin and Peek could be a headache for Offensive linemen..

There you have it..
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Old 01-19-2006   #2
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Why would you start a new post about this rather than just putting it with other posts of the type. This has been discussed and people know that we have guys that can play the position they just need to add weight. We still are missing a stronside everydown DE.
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Old 01-19-2006   #3
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I posted this as a new post because not EVERYBODY sees replies.. I want EVERYBDOY to see this post.. so that they can realize what I realize..
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Old 01-19-2006   #4
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I think Charlie Anderson was a DE in college too so you might want to count him as well.
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Old 01-19-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
Why would you start a new post about this rather than just putting it with other posts of the type. This has been discussed and people know that we have guys that can play the position they just need to add weight. We still are missing a stronside everydown DE.
The everydown arguements for any position are a bunch of BS arguements made by people that know they're wrong and have to find the tinyest stat, the only one that has a flaw in somebodys plan to try to fool the other person, and more importantly themselves into thinking otherwise. Plus if your so worried about a everydown DE we can just use a bunch of DEs in some sort of substitution system because finding 4-3 DEs is one of the easiest things in football
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Old 01-19-2006   #6
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Plus with the DTs that we have will demand double teams leaving or DEs 1 on 1 with Tackles giving them a better chance of a sack/pressure..

Peek and Babin will work at DE..
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Old 01-20-2006   #7
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Pettway and Orr are also both the right size. And both played DE in College.
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Old 01-20-2006   #8
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DE isn't a crisis stuation for the Texans if they move to the 4-3. They would need to pick up one more guy that's more of a power end, but between those mentioned above, they would have a really good stable of speed rushing ends. They have a roster full of tackles so you're really only looking to upgrade at one of the positions.

They need a middle linebacker as much as a starting DE. Wong has had mixed results in the middle in his career and Polk is a nice backup. And of course Wong and Greenwood on the outside have those new nice fat contracts...
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Old 01-20-2006   #9
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Charlie Anderson is the right size to be an ILB as well as Polk.

This is a thin draft at ILB.. Dqwell Jackson and Abdul Hodge are the only ones I see which may be able to come in and win a starting spot...and I wouldnt call either of them elite prospects. It might be a position that we are better off addressing in FA if we switch to the 4-3. Though im not seeing too many options in FA either.. not any really appealing ones anyway. We may have to make due with what we have.

As for DE... its not a bad DE class this year..so we could probably pick up a more prototypical 4-3 DE in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.. what about DTs like Claude Wroten and Brodrick Bunkley though? they are both undersized DTs.. possibly could be moved to DE? maybe provide depth at DT too.
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Old 01-20-2006   #10
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Disagree totally on Anderson inside. He's very Peek-ish in his physical attributes and how he plays. You need someone with a little lower cg in the middle.

Last edited by aj.; 01-20-2006 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 01-20-2006   #11
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I agree that he is very "peek-ish".. I wouldnt mind seeing how he handled ILB though. Never know.. he may take to it like a duck to water.
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Old 01-20-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofHouston
somebody says.. "Peek and Babin aren't big enough to play DEs.." (main Peek being the target for this)

Lets take a look at some of the good NFL Defensive Ends...

Simeon Rice - 6'5, 268
Dwight Freeney - 6'1, 268
Javon Kearse - 6'4, 265
Alex Brown - 6'3, 262
Leonard Little - 6'3, 261
Adewale Ogunleye - 6'4, 260
Terrell Suggs- 6'3, 260
Jason Babin - 6'2, 259
Jason Taylor - 6'6, 255
Antwann Peek - 6'3, 250
Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila - 6'4, 250
John Abraham - 6'4, 248
Robert Mathis - 6'2, 235
Reminds me of the "Domanick Davis/ Reggie Bush is too small to play RB in the NFL" talk.

One time, years ago somebody posted the sizes of great NFL running backs and it was shocking how small these guys are. Start your list with Walter Payton and Emmitt Smith and go from there. So how Domanick Davis measures up.
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Old 01-20-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erratic Assassin
Reminds me of the "Domanick Davis/ Reggie Bush is too small to play RB in the NFL" talk.

One time, years ago somebody posted the sizes of great NFL running backs and it was shocking how small these guys are. Start your list with Walter Payton and Emmitt Smith and go from there. So how Domanick Davis measures up.
Here is a short list I put together for a post on Bush as an everydown back.
Tiki 5-10, 200 lbs
LT 5-10, 221 lbs
Portis 5-11, 212 lbs
Barry 5-8, 200 lbs
Emmitt 5-10, 216 lbs
Curtis Martin 5-11, 210 lbs
Faulk 5-10, 211 lbs
Priest 5-9, 213 lbs
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Old 01-20-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
DE isn't a crisis stuation for the Texans if they move to the 4-3. They would need to pick up one more guy that's more of a power end, but between those mentioned above, they would have a really good stable of speed rushing ends. They have a roster full of tackles so you're really only looking to upgrade at one of the positions.

They need a middle linebacker as much as a starting DE. Wong has had mixed results in the middle in his career and Polk is a nice backup. And of course Wong and Greenwood on the outside have those new nice fat contracts...
I would add kai parham.
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Old 01-20-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texans281
I think Charlie Anderson was a DE in college too so you might want to count him as well.
They don't call guys like Anderson "tweeners" for nothing. They are smallish
college DEs who are simply too small to be NFL DEs and not quick enough to
be backers in the 4-3, but the stuff of successful OLBs in the 3-4.
260-265 is probably marginal for 4-3 DEs, unless the undersized player is
off the chart athletically like a Dwight Freeney. Without considering other
qualifications, Babin would therefor be marginal size wise, but players like Anderson & Peek appear to be too small to even be considered as "every down" DEs in a 4-3.
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Old 01-20-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
Disagree totally on Anderson inside. He's very Peek-ish in his physical attributes and how he plays. You need someone with a little lower cg in the middle.
Agreed. If you look at Anderson standing with the other linebackers it looks like he has really long legs.
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Old 01-20-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
They don't call guys like Anderson "tweeners" for nothing. They are smallish
college DEs who are simply too small to be NFL DEs and not quick enough to
be backers in the 4-3, but the stuff of successful OLBs in the 3-4.
260-265 is probably marginal for 4-3 DEs, unless the undersized player is
off the chart athletically like a Dwight Freeney. Without considering other
qualifications, Babin would therefor be marginal size wise, but players like Anderson & Peek appear to be too small to even be considered as "every down" DEs in a 4-3.
I dont think there is any denying that we would need to pick up AT LEAST one more traditional 4-3 DE. I just dont think we are totally unsuited to switch to a 4-3. I think we have about as much 4-3 talent as we do 3-4 talent.
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Old 01-20-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Baller
Here is a short list I put together for a post on Bush as an everydown back.
Tiki 5-10, 200 lbs
LT 5-10, 221 lbs
Portis 5-11, 212 lbs
Barry 5-8, 200 lbs
Emmitt 5-10, 216 lbs
Curtis Martin 5-11, 210 lbs
Faulk 5-10, 211 lbs
Priest 5-9, 213 lbs
Thanks Long Baller.

I wonder how many people would still argue that Barry Sanders was too small to play in the NFL at a tiny 5' 8" and 200 lbs.
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Old 01-20-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erratic Assassin
Thanks Long Baller.

I wonder how many people would still argue that Barry Sanders was too small to play in the NFL at a tiny 5' 8" and 200 lbs.
how does everything get turned into a reggie bush argument?

this post is about 4-3 DE's and our need if we switch.


On topic, we really do need a DE who can stop the run AND rush the passer. Peek is on the edge of traditional size that has some concerned about his ability to hold up at the POA. Peek lacks run stopping ability, period. A Mario/Kiwi would be able to do both, including get after the QB better than Peek.

An upgrade is a big concern for me if we switch to the 4-3. Peek COULD work, but I would not want him in there full time.
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Old 01-20-2006   #20
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Quote:
Mario/Kiwi would be able to do both, including get after the QB better than Peek.
MARIO!!! We need mario! M-A-R-I-O!!

seriously though.. he has been called the best DE since Julius Peppers. If we go to a 4-3.. Mario Williams may be the guy we should set our sights on in the first. Maybe the Jets would trade with us.
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