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Old 01-16-2006   #1
texan279
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Default Peyton can’t win the big one

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If Peyton Manning is considered such a great decision-maker at quarterback, then how come he left Sunday’s playoff game on the lap of his ***** kicker?

Because it’s the playoffs.

You might say, wasn’t it Manning who rallied the Colts to a near-victory? Wasn’t it Mike Vanderjagt — whom Manning called not only an “***** kicker,” but also a “liquored-up” ***** kicker, at the 2003 Pro Bowl after Vanderjagt ripped Manning (and Colts coach Tony Dungy) as too unemotional — who missed a game-tying 46-yard field-goal with 21 seconds to go?

Well, yes. But Manning, starting in college at Tennessee, has made a habit out of digging a huge hole early in big games, then rallying just enough to lose respectably and stay title-free.

For all of Manning’s famed improvisational skills in play-calling before the snap, Manning loses all composure if the play doesn’t develop as planned after the snap. It’s not just that Manning is not very mobile.

It’s that the offense is based on timing, and any disruption of timing sends Manning into a panic. It also turns him against his teammates.

Rather than try to inspire his Colts when they’re behind, Manning tends to go into a shell and wonder why everybody else is screwing up.
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Old 01-16-2006   #2
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Peyton and the umpteen million before him that could not win the big one is great literary fodder. Usually we have to wait for the full body of work to be closed before we can actually make that assertion.

Peyton is a big name in the sports world and the media's scurtiny comes with it. But if it were any other QB in his position yesterday, we would be talking about the kicker more so than the QB in my opinion.
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Old 01-16-2006   #3
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Too early to say he can't win the big one, but certainly he has looked shaky during his playoff appearances. If he is going to win it all it needs to be in the next couple of years. The level of talent the Colts have at this point will be tough to keep around and difficult to duplicate in the future.
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Old 01-16-2006   #4
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To be fair, the defense really let them down more than Peyton in my opinion. I mean giving up those kinds of yards to Big Ben in the 1st half, then not stopping the run (even though everyone and their mother knew the Steelers were going to run) in the 4th quarter is unacceptable for a supposed super bowl defense
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Old 01-16-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
To be fair, the defense really let them down more than Peyton in my opinion. I mean giving up those kinds of yards to Big Ben in the 1st half, then not stopping the run (even though everyone and their mother knew the Steelers were going to run) in the 4th quarter is unacceptable for a supposed super bowl defense
Even with some shaky play they still only gave up 21 points.
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Old 01-16-2006   #6
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Straight up [hypothetical] trade: Peyton Manning for David Carr

I'd take it in a heartbeat and never look back.

Lots of big name talent never made it to the Big One over the years. It doesn't diminish their talent, but rather our perception of it. It is a team sport, though, so there are a lot of great players that played on teams that just couldn't pull it through the clutch.
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Old 01-16-2006   #7
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Is it Peyton Manning can't win the big one or Tony Dungy can't?

Both have a history of great regular seasons, but both seem to come up short in the big games.
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Old 01-16-2006   #8
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Originally Posted by Double Barrel
Straight up [hypothetical] trade: Peyton Manning for David Carr

I'd take it in a heartbeat and never look back.
Maybe so, but funny how a 2-time MVP at QB doesn't look so good when he doesn't have time to throw the ball. Good thing Carr doesn't have a problem like that.
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Old 01-16-2006   #9
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It's a team sport. Most of the most praised QBs are overrated and many of the less respected ones are underrated. Brett Farve had a terrible year, but it's the whole offense, including him, (if not he whole team) that actually failed, not just him. John Elway never won it all until he had an offense with a serious running game. I'm not putting down the Colts. I'm just saying that Manning got more pressure than a winning QB will usually get. That kind of pressure on your QB is almost always a loss, no matter who your QB is. The Steelers have a really good D and that makes them a formidable opponent to anyone.
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Old 01-16-2006   #10
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I lost a lot of respect for Manning yesterday. His line obviously stunk it up for 3 quarters and he certainly didn't hold back blaiming them for the loss. It was one thing when this team couldn't beat the New England machine, yesterday they just looked unprepared and rusty.
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Old 01-16-2006   #11
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Originally Posted by Speedy
Maybe so, but funny how a 2-time MVP at QB doesn't look so good when he doesn't have time to throw the ball. Good thing Carr doesn't have a problem like that.
Funny how that QB is a big reason why his team is in the playoffs every year and our QB is a big reason why we are not because we have not mortaged the future of our franchise to realize his potential.

Some people who love Carr, love to bash Manning. Not quite sure how this helps the fans perception of Carr.
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Old 01-16-2006   #12
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Originally Posted by Bayern
yesterday they just looked unprepared and rusty.
That's what ya get when you bench your team after they make the playoffs. Stupid decision IMO, never quiet understood that concept. Sure, they want to avoid injury, but, what does it matter if they are so stale and out of sync they can't win the game anyway. That's what I saw yesterday. A team that was not only rusty, but out of sync. The offense stunk, and it took them into the forth quarter before they found their old rhythm. What good did it do them to win 13 straight if they get lazy and blow it in the playoffs.
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Old 01-16-2006   #13
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Phil Mickelson couldn't win the big one....until he won the big one. John Elway couldn't win the big one....until he won the big one.

Marino couldn't win the big one....but he's a HOF'r.
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Old 01-16-2006   #14
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Funny how that QB is a big reason why his team is in the playoffs every year and our QB is a big reason why we are not because we have not mortaged the future of our franchise to realize his potential.

Some people who love Carr, love to bash Manning. Not quite sure how this helps the fans perception of Carr.
Yesterday's Colt's game just proved that even great QB's like Manning would not succeed behind our offensive line...
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Old 01-16-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by texan279
Yesterday's Colt's game just proved that even great QB's like Manning would not succeed behind our offensive line...
That and that the best team doesn't always win anyway. I still say that Pittsburgh was the best team in the NFL LAST YEAR, but they fell apart in the play-offs. This year, Indianapolis was the best team (probably) and they lost to Pittsburgh (go figure). From a pure numbers standpoint, the odds are actually against the best team winning it all. You just have to be good, get into the play-offs, fight your butts off, and hope that things go your way.
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Old 01-16-2006   #16
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Originally Posted by TD Rivers
Is it Peyton Manning can't win the big one or Tony Dungy can't?

Both have a history of great regular seasons, but both seem to come up short in the big games.

So it was Tony Dungy's fault he couldn't beat Florida in college too, right? I knew I was going to hear this sooner or later. Sure Dungy hasn't won the big one as a coach. I think he'll be the first to tell you that. But what's Peyton's excuse? He's been in the league for eight going on nine years, he's no Carr now. He has zero excuses.
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Old 01-16-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbourda
So it was Tony Dungy's fault he could beat Florida in college too, right? I knew I was going to hear this sooner or later. Sure Dungy hasn't won the big one as a coach. I think he'll be the first to tell you that. But what's Peyton's excuse? He's been in the league for eight going on nine years, he's no Carr now. He has zero excuses.

Actually that's pretty much what I heard Peyton say after the game. He said he's been in the league 8 years and his time is finite....he knows the margin is narrow to get the job done. He stated the obvious too...their O line was terrible yesterday although he wasn't using those words. I'm kind of on the fence about that type of talk...you shouldn't do that maybe but it was obvious to anybody that's ever watched football. Their line got roughed up.
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Old 01-16-2006   #18
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There's a difference between "can't win the big one" and "hasn't won the big one yet." A lot of guys labelled as chokers have gone on to win Superbowls and prove their doubters wrong. Peyton may well do the same thing.

I would absolutely take Peyton on the Texans though, that's for sure. And so would most people who are sane.

So he never won a championship in college. You could say the same thing about most of the all-time great pro QBs. And a lot of the guys who do win the national championship stink as pros (except for Vince <_<).
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Old 01-16-2006   #19
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Originally Posted by SESupergenius
Phil Mickelson couldn't win the big one....until he won the big one. John Elway couldn't win the big one....until he won the big one.

Marino couldn't win the big one....but he's a HOF'r.
No doubt. Every Houston Oiler that ever lived - even the Hall of Fame ones - never went to the big dance, much less won one.

But it doesn't diminish our love for them in spite of it all.
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Old 01-16-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by kbourda
So it was Tony Dungy's fault he couldn't beat Florida in college too, right? I knew I was going to hear this sooner or later. Sure Dungy hasn't won the big one as a coach. I think he'll be the first to tell you that. But what's Peyton's excuse? He's been in the league for eight going on nine years, he's no Carr now. He has zero excuses.
No, but when you consider that Tampa Bay won the SB the year after Dungy left with basically the same talent, it has to make you wonder.

Dungy had fantastic stats as a player (in college) and has one the best winning percentages as a coach, but hasn't won a "big game" either. I'm not knocking Dungy, but he and Manning seem to share the same affliction.
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