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Old 01-14-2006   #1
Jagsbch
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Cool How many players are you all away from being in contention?

Just curious.
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Old 01-14-2006   #2
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about as many as you all are away from contention for a championship. So I would say >=6
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Old 01-14-2006   #3
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Originally Posted by Jagsbch
Just curious.
I'll try to take this one early in the morning.

We are a RT, LG, RG, C, TE, DE, MLB, FS away.

basicly our entire o-line, with some questions surrounding pitts, who i excluded. Basicly, this is the year we build, we go 6-10ish and then its downhill from there. I give us two years to be competitive if we fill those spots with capable rookies.
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Old 01-14-2006   #4
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thats exactly what I would say too.. 6 or less.
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Old 01-14-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by Grid
thats exactly what I would say too.. 6 or less.
He actually said >6 which is more than 6. Good morning GRID!! wake up dude.
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Old 01-14-2006   #6
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our LBs arent as bad as advertised.. heck..our whole defense isnt as bad as advertised. We need a DT cause Payne is old..and we need a FS cause Coleman is old.. and possibly a #2 CB to replace Buchanan.

on offense we need an OG and an OT .. and possibly a center but it isnt a huge need because Hodgdon looked good when he played and may be our answer there. and we need a back to share carries with DD.

So that is 6 right there. Some people would include TE but im not going to say we need that till I see what a new coaching staff does with our existing TEs..and if Joppru finally plays. Others will also say we need a #2 WR but with Gaffney, Armstrong, and Mathis..you cant tell me one of these guys couldnt be a capable #2.
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Old 01-14-2006   #7
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yeah that is my bad, Grid knew what I meant though.
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Old 01-14-2006   #8
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Originally Posted by Grid
Others will also say we need a #2 WR but with Gaffney, Armstrong, and Mathis..you cant tell me one of these guys couldnt be a capable #2.
Mathis was probably already there, by the end of the season, but they never let him on the field with the offense.
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Old 01-14-2006   #9
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Mathis was probably already there, by the end of the season, but they never let him on the field with the offense.
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Old 01-14-2006   #10
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Originally Posted by Grid
our LBs arent as bad as advertised.. heck..our whole defense isnt as bad as advertised. We need a DT cause Payne is old..and we need a FS cause Coleman is old.. and possibly a #2 CB to replace Buchanan.

on offense we need an OG and an OT .. and possibly a center but it isnt a huge need because Hodgdon looked good when he played and may be our answer there. and we need a back to share carries with DD.

So that is 6 right there. Some people would include TE but im not going to say we need that till I see what a new coaching staff does with our existing TEs..and if Joppru finally plays. Others will also say we need a #2 WR but with Gaffney, Armstrong, and Mathis..you cant tell me one of these guys couldnt be a capable #2.
Hopefully we don't have to replace Buchanan. Maybe with some new coaching here he can be as good as he was supose to be coming out of Miami. Hopefully we get some use out of him.

I do think we need a TE. I also don't count on Joppru coming back. If he does great, but I won't hold my breath. We need some youth on the O-Line. Also if we draft them the Salary Cap is not that big an issue with them in the first 3 years or so.
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Old 01-14-2006   #11
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Originally Posted by Grid
our LBs arent as bad as advertised.. heck..our whole defense isnt as bad as advertised. We need a DT cause Payne is old..and we need a FS cause Coleman is old.. and possibly a #2 CB to replace Buchanan.
Our LBs stepped it up as the year ended. Orr turned heads. Babin came through. That is all though. Peek and Greenwood need to both go, they are overrated. Wong will be welcomed back. Our LB's actually rate as a big need from my perspective, but only a MLB.

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Originally Posted by Grid
on offense we need an OG and an OT .. and possibly a center but it isnt a huge need because Hodgdon looked good when he played and may be our answer there.
We can upgrade EVERY position. I am still not sold on Pitts, we never tried him out for longer than 3 steps, though he did admirable at that. He is worth next year to me. Hodgen is fine, but a MAJOR upgrade is available this offseason in LeCharles Bently. Before the Kubiak news, I was focused on guys like Giles, Luiti (still want him), McNeil, Winston. Now I am turning my focus to smaller, quicker guys.

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Originally Posted by Grid
and we need a back to share carries with DD.
Maybe, but a #1 pick is not that kind of back. Wells is great for his purposes. Hollings will shock the heck out of people now that he is healthy and he will be given a fair chance. Morency can get bent.

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Originally Posted by Grid
So that is 6 right there. Some people would include TE but im not going to say we need that till I see what a new coaching staff does with our existing TEs..and if Joppru finally plays.
TE is a need, but not immediate. It would be nice to have Joppru back, and maybe a 5th round TE. Wait till next year for Greg Olsen. That is my philosophy.


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Originally Posted by Grid
Others will also say we need a #2 WR but with Gaffney, Armstrong, and Mathis..you cant tell me one of these guys couldnt be a capable #2.
Mathis is our #2. Armstrong and Gaff. make a great slot combo. The canada record guy should also compete. Charles Rogers would also be a great addition to our talent.
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Old 01-14-2006   #12
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Originally Posted by cap1
Hopefully we don't have to replace Buchanan. Maybe with some new coaching here he can be as good as he was supose to be coming out of Miami. Hopefully we get some use out of him.
He should show his potential this year. I hope so at least, I've been defending him a lot. A real DC will do wonders.

Does anyone know about DB's under Jerry Gray and how they improved? Pro-bolws, immediate sucess?
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Old 01-14-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan
I'll try to take this one early in the morning.

We are a RT, LG, RG, C, TE, DE, MLB, FS away.

basicly our entire o-line, with some questions surrounding pitts, who i excluded. Basicly, this is the year we build, we go 6-10ish and then its downhill from there. I give us two years to be competitive if we fill those spots with capable rookies.
Now why on earth is there all this talk about drafting a RB or QB? I know there are two very good ones coming out this draft, but would it not make more since to sieze the moment with two good players, and use this as an opportunity to sell sell sell your draft pick and rack up on players that you need need need. This is not a the time to reach for a luxury pick IMO.

Furthermore why is there no CB listed? Last game we played you all had 6 ints dropped and allowed DG to rack up the most yards even in his career. Hello this is a QB who was out ranked by every opponents QB we faced but the 49ers. You all allowed a RB to come off the bench and score 3 TD's. With Seth Payne not getting any younger, and Walkers health and age issues...

Time to focus on what is going to make this team better IMO, rather than try to get a flach in the pan with Bush. We all know games are won and lost in the trenches, and your trenches are in desperate need of an enfusion.

Dennis Norman has turned into a beast for us at the center position. Depth is too vital of an asset not to seize the moment and fortify this team with the pick with 3 or 4 good players than 1. David Davis are not chop liver. I don;pt see one person listing the QB and RB positions as issues on this team that are keeping them from being in contention.

Last edited by Jagsbch; 01-14-2006 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 01-14-2006   #14
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Our LBs stepped it up as the year ended. Orr turned heads. Babin came through. That is all though. Peek and Greenwood need to both go, they are overrated. Wong will be welcomed back. Our LB's actually rate as a big need from my perspective, but only a MLB.
You only need 2 starters..the rest are depth. Peek can be depth. But I dont think we have seen everything he has. No one can deny his physical abilities.. and if he has the physical abilities..then the only thing lacking is the Mental. He was in a defense that put too much emphasis on the mental and not enough on the physical.. we may be surprised by him next season. As for Greenwood..I agree.. but I also think we might have something in Polk. Im not saying we are set for the next 10 years at LB.. but I dont see it as a need for us to be in contention.. not at this point.

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We can upgrade EVERY position. I am still not sold on Pitts, we never tried him out for longer than 3 steps, though he did admirable at that. He is worth next year to me. Hodgen is fine, but a MAJOR upgrade is available this offseason in LeCharles Bently. Before the Kubiak news, I was focused on guys like Giles, Luiti (still want him), McNeil, Winston. Now I am turning my focus to smaller, quicker guys.
Daryn Colledge and Davin Joseph. Those are the quick guys im looking at. Though Denver didnt use first day picks on their linemen. Pitts will hold down one of the tackle positions..and I think he could be the answer at LT. I agree that Bentley would be a great acquisition for us.. but we are definatly not the only team looking to get him, and we are definatly not the team that alot of FAs would choose first. Still..i hope we can sign him. That being said.. we will need depth at C behind Hodgdon..either with McKinney or (preferably) with a cheaper FA signing. Yes we could upgrade EVERY position..90% of the teams in the league could upgrade every position as well. Our NEEDS on the Oline are 2 players (as I see it)..1 guard, and 1 tackle. Hodgdon, Pitts, and Wiegert I see as starter material..and im giving Hodg the benefit of the doubt.

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Maybe, but a #1 pick is not that kind of back. Wells is great for his purposes. Hollings will shock the heck out of people now that he is healthy and he will be given a fair chance. Morency can get bent.
Wow..total disagreement here. Even when healthy (rare as it has been) Hollings hasnt shocked anyone..unless they were shocked at how bad he was..or what we paid to get him. Morency is quality depth with upside. Wells is a great backup and versatile player with his FB and special teams abilities. I am of the opinion that if you are going to have a back share carries with your starter..he needs to be just as talented. Why waste time sharing carries otherwise? That would be like putting Buchanan in to share time with Robinson... sure it may keep Robinson rested but while Buchanan is out there your team is weaker. You dont see teams running the "RB by Comittee" thing unless they have two good backs.

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TE is a need, but not immediate. It would be nice to have Joppru back, and maybe a 5th round TE. Wait till next year for Greg Olsen. That is my philosophy.
Lots of teams get by without a playmaker at TE. And lord knows with DD and Bush and Gaffney and Armstrong.. we have no shortage of dumpoff receivers. I think a new offensive scheme, combined with a better Oline.. will make our needs at TE less important. I think we could actually get by fine wiht the TEs we have.. but I am not against upgrading the position. Definatly not a need.

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Mathis is our #2. Armstrong and Gaff. make a great slot combo. The canada record guy should also compete. Charles Rogers would also be a great addition to our talent.
Im hoping Mathis becomes our #2 as well.. though I am not gonna sell Armstrong or Gaffney short. They may not be speedsters..but there is no rule saying a receiver with great hands that runs good routes can only play slot. The important thing for a #2 receiver to do is threaten the defense.. he needs to pull coverage to him.. any good receiver can do that. Im not against signing Rogers if the price is right.. if he pans out like he was supposed to in Denver.. he would be a great #2.
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Old 01-14-2006   #15
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i have read the posts and have decided the masses are correct...we need one player..vince...he will make the rest of the NFL teams want to fold up shop just because he is on our team...he will help the defense because he took the trophy back to awwwuuston texas baby!! he will fill the stands and become our mayor...he is all we need






before i was brainwashed into vinsanity i thought we need 1T 1G 1C(if hogdon is not worthy) 1 DE when we switch to 4-3..1 CB if buchanon truly is trash(which i don't believe..i think with a pass rush the whole D will be better)and 1 safety..so how many is that?? oh wait and someone worthy of stepping on an NFL field and calling themselves a TE..but then again..vince can block for himself and throw to himself and doesn't even need a line ..
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Old 01-14-2006   #16
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Originally Posted by Jagsbch
Now why on earth is there all this talk about drafting a RB or QB? I know there are two very good ones coming out this draft, but would it not make more since to sieze the moment with two good players, and use this as an opportunity to sell sell sell your draft pick and rack up on players that you need need need. This is not a the time to reach for a luxury pick IMO.
If drafting a playmaker is your idea of "luxury".. well.. I dunno what to say to that. As for stocking up on players.. aj. made it pretty clear that that has its risks as well with the current cap issues around the league. I can explain (again) the logic behind Bush.

1) DD is not durable enough to be a workhorse. he needs someone to share carries with him.

2) Bush is one of the most promising prospects to come out of college in a long time.

3) Their running styles are perfect compliments to one another..and both fit the Denver zone blocking scheme.

4) Could we get by without another RB? yes.. but it is still a need..if a lesser one. If you have that rare opportunity to draft an elite prospect.. you dont skip on it to grab two more "needs"..you take the possible playmaker.

that is the short and skinny of it.. for more detailed analysis, look at some other threads.

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Furthermore why is there no CB listed? Last game we played you all had 6 ints dropped and allowed DG to rack up the most yards even in his career. Hello this is a QB who was out ranked by every opponents QB we faced but the 49ers. You all allowed a RB to come off the bench and score 3 TD's. With Seth Payne not getting any younger, and Walkers health and age issues...
I recommend taking a look at the team needs thread that is being posted in right now. It explains some of this. CB is a need.. but not a drastic need. There is still hope around here that Buchanan could turn it around other a new coaching staff.

Quote:
Time to focus on what is going to make this team better IMO, rather than try to get a flach in the pan with Bush. We all know games are won and lost in the trenches, and your trenches are in desperate need of an enfusion.
an "infusion".. and yes..they do.. and that infusion can be found in the 2nd-4th round. We cant afford to sign 10-12 rookies. a couple of Olinemen (Colledge, Joseph) and a DT (Watson) will be a good start.

Quote:
Dennis Norman has turned into a beast for us at the center position. Depth is too vital of an asset not to seize the moment and fortify this team with the pick with 3 or 4 good players than 1. David Davis are not chop liver. I don;pt see one person listing the QB and RB positions as issues on this team that are keeping them from being in contention.
I agree.. we need to continue building depth. Im sorry though.. this isnt the mid 90s and you dont build your team in one draft. Its not possible in this era. Seriously.. check aj.'s post....ill go find it and quote it.
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Old 01-14-2006   #17
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here.. from the resident cap guru.. aj.

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There's also a lot of talk in this thread about trading down and picking up several more draft picks. The Texans already have eight picks and there's this thing called the rookie pool that you can't exceed for purposes of the salary cap, plus the fact that you can only prorate new contracts 4 years now since there's no CBA extension. This means that rookie contracts have to be loaded up more and more in their second year because their first year base salaries are set and you can't prorate bonus out five or six years any more. Meaning, if you load up on low first rounders and second or even third rounders you can get yourself in a pickle pretty quickly salary cap wise by taking on too many of these higher round rookie contracts.
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Old 01-14-2006   #18
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before i was brainwashed into vinsanity i thought we need 1T 1G 1C(if hogdon is not worthy) 1 DE when we switch to 4-3..1 CB if buchanon truly is trash(which i don't believe..i think with a pass rush the whole D will be better)and 1 safety..so how many is that?? oh wait and someone worthy of stepping on an NFL field and calling themselves a TE..but then again..vince can block for himself and throw to himself and doesn't even need a line ..
I agree with the part about - 1T, 1G, 1C, 1DE, 1CB, 1S and we also need a LB and a WR.
And Depth.
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Old 01-14-2006   #19
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about us needing a DE... are we so sure that TJ and R.Smith arent our DEs?
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Old 01-14-2006   #20
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I think we could actually get by fine wiht the TEs we have.. but I am not against upgrading the position. Definatly not a need.

Now that's funny. You are joking right? You must be counting on Joppru to come back because every other TE on our roster is really bad. TE has been a need since day 1.
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