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Old 01-13-2006   #1
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Default Seriously. Travis Johnson?

While wondering where we will adress O-line in the draft this year I couldn't help but wonder if anyone knew how Jamaal Brown and Alex Barron faired in their rookie season. Even a late first round talent right tackle might have been alright in hindsight I think we can all agree. It just seems like we are waiting each year for a Munoz or Bosselli to come out in the draft for O-line while taking mediocre talents ala Babin-Johnson (IMO). Of course the jury is still out for TJ, but now 2 years? after ESPN running that funny pre draft commercial clip of Carr with zero O-line we are still left wondering when we will adress the problem because we decided to take a rotation filling defensive tackle last year.
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Old 01-13-2006   #2
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Hindsight is 20-20. If I look back at the drafts.. I can construct us a good Oline by exchanging our picks that didnt work out for Olinemen that did.

Doesnt really help or prove anything.

TJ has had one year as a backup in a defense that wasnt working. The coaching staff just got fired. It is DEFINATLY too early to come to any conclusions about him.
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Old 01-13-2006   #3
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TJ and the other tackles on our DL will benefit greatly from a switch to a 4-3 or a Pittsburgh style 3-4. TJ is a classic one-gap penetrator and he will thrive in either of those systems if that's what's in store for the Texans defense.
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Old 01-13-2006   #4
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Originally Posted by aj.
TJ is a classic one-gap penetrator and he will thrive in either of those systems if that's what's in store for the Texans defense.
TJ is one defensive draftee we've had who's value is maximized in the 4-3,
unlike some others (especially tweener DEs like Babin, Peek, etc) who will
have more difficulty finding their niche in the 4-3.
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Old 01-13-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
TJ is one defensive draftee we've had who's value is maximized in the 4-3,
unlike some others (especially tweener DEs like Babin, Peek, etc) who will
have more difficulty finding their niche in the 4-3.
TJ isn't a bad player, I just don't know if he's a mid-first round caliber player. I sure as hell do not think he and that 3rd rounder we got made it worth passing on Derrick Johnson.

That aside, Babin and Peek both fit as pass-rushing DEs in a 4-3, possibly better than OLB's that they were in a 3-4. Mind you, Fangio's playcalling had a lot to do with the failure of our 3-4, moreso than personnel I believe. At that, I am not sure how well TJ will fit into the 4-3. I would like to stick with a 3-4, just run the thing right, myself.
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Old 01-13-2006   #6
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Originally Posted by Grid
Hindsight is 20-20. If I look back at the drafts.. I can construct us a good Oline by exchanging our picks that didnt work out for Olinemen that did.

Doesnt really help or prove anything.

TJ has had one year as a backup in a defense that wasnt working. The coaching staff just got fired. It is DEFINATLY too early to come to any conclusions about him.
It's not so much hindsight when several members around here had stated that a couple of the tackles taken last year in the 1st round were good. The hindsight thing is overrated because nobody had TJ going to us in the 1st round, he wasn't even the best DT.
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Old 01-13-2006   #7
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I guess the real question would be is if we drafted an o-lineman in the first round last year, would he have made a bigger impact than TJ?
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Old 01-13-2006   #8
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Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
I guess the real question would be is if we drafted an o-lineman in the first round last year, would he have made a bigger impact than TJ?

TJ made an impact?

maybe in the buffet line, certainly not on the playing field.

all the guy did was dress up for the media and tell jokes. but the real joke is a guy who can't see the field on a 2-14 team.
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Old 01-13-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by stevo3883
TJ made an impact?

maybe in the buffet line, certainly not on the playing field.

all the guy did was dress up for the media and tell jokes. but the real joke is a guy who can't see the field on a 2-14 team.
I understand what you are saying, but lets say we draft Barron. Would Barron have played this year, and could he have made an impact.
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Old 01-13-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
I understand what you are saying, but lets say we draft Barron. Would Barron have played this year, and could he have made an impact.

played? obviously yes, Wade was out a good amount of the year.

made an impact? well, offensive linemen can't really impact a game, and you don't notice them unless they screw up.

so would he have been an upgrade? yes i think so.
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Old 01-13-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
I understand what you are saying, but lets say we draft Barron. Would Barron have played this year, and could he have made an impact.
Probably a negative impact. I watched a couple of his games this season, and saw him get beat and get penalized a lot. I saw one game where he was penalized 5 or 6 times in one game, and during that game he was penalized three plays in a row.
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Old 01-13-2006   #12
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from everything i hear dt take 2 or 3 years to make an impact in the nfl. so maybe we should wait to judge.
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Old 01-13-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth
from everything i hear dt take 2 or 3 years to make an impact in the nfl. so maybe we should wait to judge.
That definately seems to be the case. Everyone is eager to find out what sort of talent they've got, and patience is hard to come by in a fanbase of a 2-14 team. You can look around the league, and very rarely does a DT make an immediate impact. Often they know only one move since that's all they really needed to get by OLines in college. So they need to be taught to master another move to keep professional OLinemen guessing. Look at the Chicago Bears for instance. They picked up two DTs (Tommie Harris & Tank Johnson) a couple of years ago who are now paying dividends as two key members of the DLine for one of the best defenses in the NFL. Harris saw some success as a rookie DT, but Johnson didn't have a very successful rookie season at all. However, this year Johnson has had the better season of the two DTs. I'm sure there were some impatient Bears fans who wanted to call Johnson a bust too.

My point being that while it's important to show patience when trying to accurately evaluate a past draft, it is especially important at positions like DT, QB, and the OL. I tend to think much like aj, in that, I feel TJ will benefit greatly from a change in defensive philosophy. A new DC that brings in the 4-3, or failing that, allows the DLine to get more penetration & pressure on the QB will help to highlight TJ's particular skills. Wait a couple of years before calling him a bust.
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Old 01-13-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan279
Probably a negative impact. I watched a couple of his games this season, and saw him get beat and get penalized a lot. I saw one game where he was penalized 5 or 6 times in one game, and during that game he was penalized three plays in a row.
Nevermind then.
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Old 01-13-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth
from everything i hear dt take 2 or 3 years to make an impact in the nfl. so maybe we should wait to judge.
yep, good point. This was stated when we drafted TJ, that it'll be a couple of seasons before he really makes an impact.

Imagine a rookie defensive linemen dominating veteran offensive linemen. Just that statment sounds crazy. It takes years to develop techniques to deal with those big boys up front. It's probably happened, but that's the exception and not the rule.

Have a little patience. TJ has a great upside, and time will tell if he was worth the first round pick.
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Old 01-13-2006   #16
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I think TJ will be very effective in a 4-3 system. I like our depth at DT with Smith, Walker, Payne and TJ. I realy think the front seven is a MLB and LDE away from coming together.
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Old 01-13-2006   #17
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How about Peppers? It took him awhile, but he sure is making an impact now. Not that Travis Johnson is anywhere near the player that Peppers is.
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Old 01-13-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerek
TJ isn't a bad player, I just don't know if he's a mid-first round caliber player. I sure as hell do not think he and that 3rd rounder we got made it worth passing on Derrick Johnson.
AJ could be right on about TJ being a one-gap penetrator in a 4-3 at least thats what I thought the book on him was when the Texans drafted him, which means more than anything that the coaching and scouting once again failed at their jobs. But two saving graces (we got lucky on this one) Travis will be that starting 4-3 DT & N.O. almost out sucked the Texans and that 3rd rd pick in exchange for trading down a couple picks is now worth the #2 overall pick of the 3rd rd. (#66)
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Old 01-13-2006   #19
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Originally Posted by stevo3883
made an impact? well, offensive linemen can't really impact a game, and you don't notice them unless they screw up.
I am going to have to get a judges ruling on this take. Were you being sarcastic about OLine not having an impact on a game?
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Old 01-13-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerek
TJ isn't a bad player, I just don't know if he's a mid-first round caliber player. I sure as hell do not think he and that 3rd rounder we got made it worth passing on Derrick Johnson.
Since we haven't seen much of TJ this season, check out this scouting report on him. I never knew all of this about him as I do not watch college ball, but after reading this seems like trading down and drafting him wasn't too bad, even though we haven't seen much of him yet in the NFL ranks. And the passing on DJ thing doesn't upset me at all, he did nothing all that special this season, I mean he put up solid numbers with 95 total tackles and 2 sacks, but Odell Thurman had a better season. LINK

Travis Johnson was regarded by many as the best defensive line prospect in the country after his senior year at Notre Dame (Sherman Oaks, Calif.) High. He was a unanimous All-America choice as he recorded 104 tackles with 17 sacks, 32 stops for losses, eight blocked kicks on defense and also rushed for six touchdowns as a short-yardage fullback in 1999. Johnson finished his prep career as the school's record holder for sacks (40), tackles for loss (77), forced fumbles (14) and blocked punts (five). According to Johnson's coaches, the outgoing player is finally living up to his press clippings. He shows very active hands and excellent explosion coming off the snap. He is a quick-twitch type than gets into the offensive lineman quickly, generating good upper-body power behind his hand punch to gain separation.
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