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Old 01-12-2006   #1
BeerFan
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Default another way to look at things...

am i the only person who remembers when the Chargers almost gave up on their talented young quarterback? they got philip rivers with their first round pick (the trade is irrelevant).

the point here is that imagine how good San Diego would be if they drafted a different player with that #1 pick. the rivers pick has been a complete waste so far, and maybe the other player drafted could have put that team over the top.

look at it this way.

Either Carr or Young would have to sit. you have to subtract a player to add one.

Davis, Young, Johnson

OR you could have

Bush, Davis, Carr, Johnson.

four good players are better than three. this way the team doesnt sacrifice talent for talent. it just adds more on.



this is a repost from an astros message board, but my point is the same.
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Old 01-12-2006   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerFan
am i the only person who remembers when the Chargers almost gave up on their talented young quarterback? they got philip rivers with their first round pick (the trade is irrelevant).

the point here is that imagine how good San Diego would be if they drafted a different player with that #1 pick. the rivers pick has been a complete waste so far, and maybe the other player drafted could have put that team over the top.
If they would have drafted Manning, then Breese would have been no good? You r logic makes no sense. At least this way, the Chargers got more picks and a QB that is still not bad. I think they really would have lost out if Manning was in SD and they got no picks, because Breese would have outplayed Manning in Manning's first year.
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Old 01-12-2006   #3
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no, what im saying is that SD would have been better off picking a non QB, somebody that actually would have contributed. Rivers hasn't, at all. Manning wouldn't either.

I don't want to be SD and sacrifice a player for another. i'd prefer to add onto my team. thats what im saying. if we have Carr, dont draft Young. we have DD, so don't draft Bush unless you can get him on the field.
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Old 01-12-2006   #4
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What needs to be considered, though, is salary. The question, and really crux of the matter, is simple: Is David Carr worth elite QB money? Will his "potential" translate into on-field performance worthy of getting paid in the top 10 of QBs?

The answer is tricky tough, because it's a team sport. Carr has been playing on the worst team in football for 2005. Evaluating talent become that much more difficult, because players don't play in a vacuum.

But the kind of money he will make if we pick up his option can limit our ability to pick up other players, which are desperate required to bring this team to any level of success. So it comes down to the question of Carr being able to justify his salary by doing more than just being an average QB. With so much invested in on position, the player must become a playmaker. I'm just not sure at this point if Carr has it in him or not.
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Old 01-12-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
What needs to be considered, though, is salary. The question, and really crux of the matter, is simple: Is David Carr worth elite QB money? Will his "potential" translate into on-field performance worthy of getting paid in the top 10 of QBs?

The answer is tricky tough, because it's a team sport. Carr has been playing on the worst team in football for 2005. Evaluating talent become that much more difficult, because players don't play in a vacuum.

But the kind of money he will make if we pick up his option can limit our ability to pick up other players, which are desperate required to bring this team to any level of success. So it comes down to the question of Carr being able to justify his salary by doing more than just being an average QB. With so much invested in on position, the player must become a playmaker. I'm just not sure at this point if Carr has it in him or not.

I thought we were picking up Carr at 8 mill for 3 years, not 8 PER 3???
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Old 01-12-2006   #6
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i understand and agre with you completely. If the chargers had traded down like they did they could have had, Dunta, or Vilma, or Sean Taylor.

The point is they weakened another position by taking a player at the top of the draft that hasn't played.

And there is no way they get a top 10 pick for Rivers when they trade him. so he lost most of his value because he has sat for 2 years doing nothing. and when he is traded will have to learn a new offense and acclimate himself with new players. I'd think the Dolphins should send a second rounder to the chargers for him but thats just my opinion.
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Old 01-12-2006   #7
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Unfortunately, its a moot point. Did Breez mature on his own or was the drafting of Rivers the push he needed to become a winner? If the Chargers didn't draft Rivers and traded down, they may still have a sorry excuse for a QB. And make no mistake about it, Breez was sorry those first few years. To argue this draft pick is pointless.

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Old 01-12-2006   #8
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We won't know what made Brees a better QB all of the sudden. Was it due to Rivers standing on the sidelines waiting to take his spot, or was it because they actually had an offensive line, a defense, and added the best TE in the league to their roster?

I happen to think it was the latter, but that of course is debatable.
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Old 01-12-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exclude
I thought we were picking up Carr at 8 mill for 3 years, not 8 PER 3???
Nothing has been officially announced
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Old 01-12-2006   #10
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I see the point your trying to make, but it goes 2 ways and doesnt make much sense. I get what your saying which is why would we draft Vince to sit behind Carr? But in the same respect, why would we draft Bush to sit behind Davis or to split time? To me, thats a very unwise investment.
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Old 01-12-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exclude
I thought we were picking up Carr at 8 mill for 3 years, not 8 PER 3???
The bonus is $8 million. I don't remember the base salaries, but it seems like it translates to around $8 million a year.
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Old 01-12-2006   #12
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but dont teams get better by adding talent and not by moving laterally?

i prefer addition by addition, personally.

Reggie Bush, even if he spli time, would free up AJ, Gaffney, and the TE. he would be a focal point for the defense.
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Old 01-12-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
The bonus is $8 million. I don't remember the base salaries, but it seems like it translates to around $8 million a year.
Bonus 8 mill, salary ~5.5 mill/yr.
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Old 01-12-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edo783
Bonus 8 mill, salary ~5.5 mill/yr.
So wouldn't the 8 mil be amortized over the three years on top of the base for cap calculations?
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Old 01-12-2006   #15
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This theory either gives no consideration to, or dismisses, the possiblity that having a #1 pick waiting behind him to screw up was what turned Drew Brees around.

Part of Carr's problem could be that he's never had to compete for his job. If the Texans had brought in a FA to start the first season while having Carr develop, he would have learned to improve in order to win a starting job. Or if the Texans had benched him when he performed poorly, he would have had something to prove.
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Old 01-12-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wharton
Unfortunately, its a moot point. Did Breez mature on his own or was the drafting of Rivers the push he needed to become a winner? If the Chargers didn't draft Rivers and traded down, they may still have a sorry excuse for a QB. And make no mistake about it, Breez was sorry those first few years. To argue this draft pick is pointless.

Brees was bad his first couple of years because he didn't have a supporting cast and his coach never allowed him to learn from his mistakes. Everytime he had a bad outing or threw a couple of interceptions he was benched for Doug Flutie. Brees was never technically the full time starter until Flutie was released.

Carr has made mistakes and has had bad games, but he has played through them and has at times looked like he could be a top 10 QB. With a better line and a proven offensive minded coach (Kubiak?), Carr may surprise us all.

Carr has all the physical tools to be good. If you want to prove whether or not he is capable of leading this team to the playoffs, you have to surround him with the tools to succeed. He needs coaches that can guide him, 5 guys who can keep his butt off the turf and few talented weapons at his disposal. I challenge you to name a single QB who has succeeded without on pure talent alone, no protection or weapons.

Using the #1 overall pick on a backup QB will not make this team better and will not put this team in a position to compete. Young is a freak. He is an amazing athelete. I have little doubt that he will someday be a leader and a winner in the NFL but Young is a project. He has little to no experience taking snaps from under center and as a runner he will have a lot of adjustments to make due to the speed and size of NFL defenders.

If you bench Carr and replace him with Young, you get another #1 overall next year. If you draft Bush or trade down for more picks (Ferguson?) you add players who can potentially contribute now and can help build this into a playoff team.

Just my
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