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Old 01-11-2006   #1
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Default Young's performance vs. USC = overrated

I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.
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Old 01-11-2006   #2
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All the VY threads using the Rose Bowl too proclaim Excellence are pointless. Rose bowl just proved both these guys were good 41-38. Not 55-19.
Yes both guys are great prospects, but I don't see the point of saying VY's Rose Bowl performance was overrated.
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Old 01-11-2006   #3
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Originally Posted by Sudds
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.

You just heard all this Carr stuff on 610 like 20 min ago. Get original and come up with your own stuff. Unless you are Marc VanDermeer, then I understand, but if not, no need to re-tread what the 610 guys are saying, we all know just about as much as they do, if not more.
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Old 01-11-2006   #4
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I don't think people should say that Vince's performance in the Rose Bowl was overrated because it was very impressive.

My only real problem isn't even with him, it is just I don't want to wait 2-3 years minimum for him to get to the level that David Carr is at right now. I'd rather win right now than wait a few years for someone who may or may not become the player people expect him to and a quarterback that turns out to be a bust is much more damaging to a team than a RB or WR that turns out to be a bust.
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Old 01-11-2006   #5
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You just heard all this Carr stuff on 610 like 20 min ago. Get original and come up with your own stuff. Unless you are Marc VanDermeer, then I understand, but if not, no need to re-tread what the 610 guys are saying, we all know just about as much as they do, if not more.
Next to the VY push up joke from a couple of days ago, I think this is the funniest thing I've seen on here.
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Old 01-11-2006   #6
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I find this so funny and yet frustrating.. The excuses that people come up with against VY .. and Bush

IF you don't like VY.. it is say the defense of USC stinks and that is why he was able to do that.. maybe so.. but VY hasn't had just one game that he has been a difference maker, he has had 2 years(why don't we just take Bush's stats away from that fresno state game afterall that is what really made him the heisman winner right there)

Bush.. people that don't like Bush discredit him because USC's offense was loaded.. and just blew people away.. (namely the pac -10)


Where can we stop and just say these 2 guys did great at the college level? we can find faults with either guy all day long.


Bottom line is this..
VY knows how to win and makes his teammates around him better because they believed in him ..
Bush.. is a threat to go the distance anytime he touches the ball whether it is rushing or receiving. short distances , he won't be able to pound it in that is his weakness

end of story.
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Old 01-11-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by Sudds
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.
Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.

few things, all that was said before the RB was how Vince wouldnt be able to operate against the "genius" Carroll with his super complicated schemes, and how with a month to prepare, Young would be shut down. Yet when Vince destroys all those schemes and picks up every blitz brilliantly, it was all about how bad usc's defense was.

second, Carr being the 6th qb to do that. sounds pretty Texas Techish to me. stats have system QB resembling TTech and other basic Pac-10 WCO's that compile stats against non existant D's.


third, the teams you listed as the best Carr beat, are middle of the pack compared to the Elites Vince has compiled his record setting 3000/1000 38TD numbers aainst.

Oklahoma
Ohio State
Michigan
USC
Texas Tech

(P.S.- vince went 25/29 336 yards 2tds 58 yds rushing 3 td's against Colorado)

Don't even try to compare their college creds. Carr had stats(so does every pac-10 QB), Vince had hardware to go with his NCAA record stats and the first national championship @ Texas in 35 years.
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Old 01-11-2006   #8
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Does anyone listen to Charlie Pallilo anymore?
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Old 01-11-2006   #9
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Did you know that USC had 3 walk ons playing in that Rose Bowl game on defense?

I listen to Charlie, but haven't recently.
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Old 01-11-2006   #10
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Originally Posted by Wolf
I find this so funny and yet frustrating.. The excuses that people come up with against VY .. and Bush

IF you don't like VY.. it is say the defense of USC stinks and that is why he was able to do that.. maybe so.. but VY hasn't had just one game that he has been a difference maker, he has had 2 years(why don't we just take Bush's stats away from that fresno state game afterall that is what really made him the heisman winner right there)

Bush.. people that don't like Bush discredit him because USC's offense was loaded.. and just blew people away.. (namely the pac -10)


Where can we stop and just say these 2 guys did great at the college level? we can find faults with either guy all day long.


Bottom line is this..
VY knows how to win and makes his teammates around him better because they believed in him ..
Bush.. is a threat to go the distance anytime he touches the ball whether it is rushing or receiving. short distances , he won't be able to pound it in that is his weakness

end of story.
Good post, Wolf. I've been advocating a balanced analysis by people for awhile, because adding either Bush or Young to our team adds amazing talent and potentially huge playmaking abilities regardless of who we pick. Why diss one because you support the other? Just state your case with respect and intelligence, and leave it at that.

The crux of the matter hinges on the future of Carr, and if we want to just retool the machine, or do a complete rebuild. Personally, I'm a Texans fan for the long haul, but I sure would like to see a winning season sooner than later.
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Old 01-11-2006   #11
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Originally Posted by Nawzer
Does anyone listen to Charlie Pallilo anymore?
I don't because even though he's really smart, he's not good solo.

I tried to get in at the end of Rich's show after the guy was arguing for Bush because "top RBs are so much easier to project" early in the draft.

I guess he forgot about William Green and TJ Ducket being picked before Deshaun Foster and Clinton Portis in '02, Ron Dayne getting picked before Shaun Alexander in '00, and Curtis Enis being the number 1 back taken in '99. And on and on. Yes, teams can draft stupid but for every misjudged QB talent, you could probably identify at least one misjudged RB talent.
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Old 01-11-2006   #12
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Originally Posted by Wolf
I find this so funny and yet frustrating.. The excuses that people come up with against VY .. and Bush

IF you don't like VY.. it is say the defense of USC stinks and that is why he was able to do that.. maybe so.. but VY hasn't had just one game that he has been a difference maker, he has had 2 years(why don't we just take Bush's stats away from that fresno state game afterall that is what really made him the heisman winner right there)

Bush.. people that don't like Bush discredit him because USC's offense was loaded.. and just blew people away.. (namely the pac -10)


Where can we stop and just say these 2 guys did great at the college level? we can find faults with either guy all day long.


Bottom line is this..
VY knows how to win and makes his teammates around him better because they believed in him ..
Bush.. is a threat to go the distance anytime he touches the ball whether it is rushing or receiving. short distances , he won't be able to pound it in that is his weakness

end of story.

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Old 01-11-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudds
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.




VY is the 1st QB to throw for over 3000 yards and rush for 1000 yards. Also Carr's record was only 18-8 while VY is 30-2 plus a national championship. VY also beat an Ohio State team in Columbus, which had never lost to a non big 10 team at home I think and hadn't lost a home game in over 30 games. VY also in that game threw for 270 and ran for 76 yards. VY did that against the #5 defense in the NCAA, that only aloud 281.3 yards and 15.2 points per game. Also LEAD the team in a comeback win in that game as well as the national championship.

Trust me, I was a Carr faithful. Defending him everytime I could but VY has proven to be a LEADER and this team needs a leader. Bob McNair has also said that the team expected more from David in the leader postion and he has yet to step up in that field.

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Old 01-11-2006   #14
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Originally Posted by Sudds
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.
Hey, great performances vs. horrible defenses can get you a Heisman.

Signed, Reggie Bush
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Old 01-11-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by Nawzer
Does anyone listen to Charlie Pallilo anymore?
I do. I can't handle Rich. Rich was bearable with Charlie, but he is not now. I have no problem with Marc.

The point of Vince's performance being overrated: I can see this. Some people are blowing it out of proportion. I think this is why people are saying it is overrated. He had a great performance, but Fresno did put up more points than even Texas did. Was it a great performance? Yes. Is Vince going to be the greatest QB ever? We will have to wait and see.

I don't think anyone is saying that Vince's performance was AVERAGE.
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Old 01-11-2006   #16
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I agree and said the same thing the other day about the VY bashers. These are good kids. Hate the hype but not the player. Just for the record the original post is completely wrong. Take away what USC's defense did against Fresno and see what they did against UCLA. So they aren't horrible. Add the fact that it is the National Championship game that had 5 weeks of hype and the whole nation watching. The kid took on a team that was being mentioned in the same breath as the greatest teams ever, his coach never winning a thing, a program in a 25 year drought and with 1 minute left he made it look like a walk in the park. You are the only person I have ever heard call that overrated. Jack Pardee was on the radio because of his awards banquet and he called it one of the best games and games by a player he has ever seen. I'll leave it in the pros hands.
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Old 01-11-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudds
I like VY and think he is one heck of a player, but keep in mind that Fresno State put up 42 points vs USC. Fresno's offense dominated the USC defense, so don't get too excited about VY's performance, although it was great. And, if USC didn't have Bush, Fresno State would have won by 21 points. Look at VY's performance for what it is...a great performance vs. a horrible defense.

Also, please remember how good Carr was coming out of college, and beating teams like Wisconsin, Oregon State, Colorado, and putting up huge numbers against Michigan State...

REMEMBER...Carr became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation his senior season. Sick numbers, not to mention he was benching 400 lbs and squating 500lbs. The pro gam eis significantly different from college, so let's stay calm on the draft VY and dump Carr routine.


What about Ohio State this yr and Rose Bowl last yr? This was not a 1 time great performance.Plus I`m sure Brady and Montana never benched or squat that much. Or put up big numbers like Carr.They just find a way to win!
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Old 01-11-2006   #18
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What about Ohio State this yr and Rose Bowl last yr? This was not a 1 time great performance.Plus I`m sure Brady and Montana never benched or squat that much. Or put up big numbers like Carr.They just find a way to win!
Like I said before and I totally agree with you. VY is a leader and Carr is not. He may have a great arm but he is just not a leader!!
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Old 01-11-2006   #19
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I agree and said the same thing the other day about the VY bashers. These are good kids. Hate the hype but not the player. Just for the record the original post is completely wrong. Take away what USC's defense did against Fresno and see what they did against UCLA. So they aren't horrible. Add the fact that it is the National Championship game that had 5 weeks of hype and the whole nation watching. The kid took on a team that was being mentioned in the same breath as the greatest teams ever, his coach never winning a thing, a program in a 25 year drought and with 1 minute left he made it look like a walk in the park. You are the only person I have ever heard call that overrated. Jack Pardee was on the radio because of his awards banquet and he called it one of the best games and games by a player he has ever seen. I'll leave it in the pros hands.
I agree
What gets me is UT's defense was one of the better defenses, yet couldn't stop the 2 previous heisman trophy winners ..(face it Bush got his yards, Matt got his too).. and Young outshined them by himself.. USC's coaches had to stop one player and couldn't .. UT's defense had to stop 2 players and didn't .. and white came in and made it a triple attack.. which they didn't stop him either except for the most important time.

The hype of USC being the best team ever and 2 heisman trophy winners and blablabla basically sickened me. why? all this hype and what was the point spread on that game? one time I heard it was 1 1/2 points and last I heard it was around 7 right before the game.. Hype wise it was David versus Goliath ..with VY being David.

The game comparable to the Miami versus Ohio State a few years back where no one gave the underdog a chance
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Old 01-11-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by Zephyr
I do. I can't handle Rich. Rich was bearable with Charlie, but he is not now. I have no problem with Marc.
My problem with all things 610 is that they act like they woke up, read the paper and that is the extent of their sports knowledge. I trust opinions here more. I used to think Palillo was surly and added nothing but now I listen to him in the afternoon. The guy knows his stuff.
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