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Old 01-11-2006   #1
gtexan02
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Default The blind hope is starting again!

Ahh! I don't care if you love VY or you love Bush, but please realize that at the beginning of the disaster this year, everyone realized how badly we need role players (OL, DL, LB) and no one mentioned us needing huge playmakers. Now that we have the potential to draft some big names who may or may not make an immediate impact, people are already validating themselves with statements like "New coaching will solve our OL problems"

If I hear "THey just need 1 more season to gel under the zone blocking scheme" or anything like that, Im going to freak out
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Old 01-11-2006   #2
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I think they just need one more season to gel under the new blocking scheme. Then they'll be fine.

All I can really say, seriously, is that, IF we don't get Kubiak, I want this zone blocking scheme gone yesterday and, yes, I'd like to trade down.
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Old 01-11-2006   #3
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All I keep reading about is that Kubiak is as good as here. We just need to wait until the Broncos lose.
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Old 01-11-2006   #4
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Nice thought. Rather than "taking off your (insert color here) tinted glasses," look at the situation in black and white to start with. We were 2-14 last year. Regardless of what the company line says, we won't make the playoffs next year. Make decisions that will make this team a juggernaut for the long term.
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Old 01-11-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
If I hear "THey just need 1 more season to gel under the zone blocking scheme" or anything like that, Im going to freak out
That's very true. The "give it time to gel" argument wore thin pretty fast. Or how about another favorite blast from the past. Anyone not predicting a playoff run in 2005 being labeled a "Chicken Little". Unfortunately, the sky did actually fall this time!
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Old 01-11-2006   #6
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what would people prefer to hear? Everyone on the Oline needs to be released and replaced with new players?

This isnt Madden.. you dont... CANT..do that.

If you dont think that keeping 3 of our current starters.. and getting a couple of new players and a new coaching staff is enough to fix our Oline..then you are just going to have to deal with it.. Cause that is about as drastic a change as we are going to get.
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Old 01-11-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geofb
That's very true. The "give it time to gel" argument wore thin pretty fast. Or how about another favorite blast from the past. Anyone not predicting a playoff run in 2005 being labeled a "Chicken Little". Unfortunately, the sky did actually fall this time!
Yah when you predict the worse every offseason.. you are bound to be right eventually. Anyone who claims it was "superior knowledge" is kidding themselves though.

As for the time to gel arguement. I would agree that it wore thin if it wasnt for the FACT that it was true. Any good Oline is going to be a bad Oline first. An Oline needs time to gel and get used to the players next to them. Its a fact.. not an excuse.

ACtually.. when we bring in some new talent for this oline.. and a new coaching staff.. they might need time to gel too. We may not see a real noticable improvemen in them for half of next season. Who knows.

You can hope and wish that our Oline could be replaced by probowlers before the 2006 season starts.. but its not going to happen.. and I see no point in damning the entire line to sucktitude when it is entirely possible that they could become a very solid line with a bit more help.
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Old 01-11-2006   #8
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what I want to hear more of is the word "execute". Hopefully Kubiak never uses this reason.
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Old 01-11-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
As for the time to gel arguement. I would agree that it wore thin if it wasnt for the FACT that it was true.
The Texans own coaching staff basically admitted it wasn't a fact since they played fruit basket shuffle with the o-line after the season had started. They knew they were in the soup big time and were grasping at straws trying to fix the problem. The line had more than enough time to gel and it didn't. Are you suggesting we should bring back Wand to start for a few more years so he will have adequate gel time?
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Old 01-11-2006   #10
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I think we should refer to the previous regime as "Hoover, ElectroLux and Co." cause they sure did SUCK.
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Old 01-11-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geofb
The Texans own coaching staff basically admitted it wasn't a fact since they played fruit basket shuffle with the o-line after the season had started. They knew they were in the soup big time and were grasping at straws trying to fix the problem. The line had more than enough time to gel and it didn't. Are you suggesting we should bring back Wand to start for a few more years so he will have adequate gel time?
you are confusing the issue.

Any Oline needs time to gel.. that is a fact. But you dont just throw bums out there and wait for them to gel and become a good Oline. You first have to have adequate talent on the line.

We do have SOME talent on the line but need a bit more. Not a whole new line.. just a couple more players..and some better depth.

the shuffling last season wasnt our coaching staff saying "there is no such thing as a line needing time to gel" it was them saying "this is not a talented enough line".

when we get new talent on the line..and the season starts next year.. expect to hear the "time to gel" arguement again. Because that is all you can say to someone who doesnt understand that you have to be patient with a young Oline.. and comes on here raving about how they all suck and we should have signed [insert 40 year old probowler here]
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Old 01-11-2006   #12
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I'm with you, but I have come to realize that trading down would be a huge PR nightmare. If this team doesn't take Bush or VY, there will be a lot of fans that tune them out. Football is a business first and foremost. That is why I wouldn't be surprised to see VY in steel blue next year. Not my preference, but it seems to be the fan's choice.
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Old 01-11-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
Any Oline needs time to gel.. that is a fact. But you dont just throw bums out there and wait for them to gel and become a good Oline. You first have to have adequate talent on the line.
Grid, we might agree after all, not sure. I agree with you that an o-line needs some time to gel. However, as you said, if you throw bums out there you can give it an eternity to gel and it still won't gel. The frustration many felt this time last year is that the Texans admitted publicly during the offseason that a top priority was to improve the o-line. Then we promptly did nothing personnel wise to improve the o-line. Many on here could see the disaster brewing with the o-line. Even after it became painfully obvious our o-line sucked because we had some "bums" on it (Wand for sure), many on this board stuck with the sorry excuse that the line just needed more time to gel. Even the coaching staff finally threw in the towel and said "gel my backside, this o-line stinks" and then started trying every combination imaginable to fix the problem. So I think the "time to gel" argument wore thin because many people on this board stuck with that tired maxim long after it became obvious that gel time was not the root of the problem. Some of the players were the problem.
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Old 01-11-2006   #14
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Originally Posted by TheOgre
I'm with you, but I have come to realize that trading down would be a huge PR nightmare. If this team doesn't take Bush or VY, there will be a lot of fans that tune them out. Football is a business first and foremost. That is why I wouldn't be surprised to see VY in steel blue next year. Not my preference, but it seems to be the fan's choice.
Well, I don't know about Houston Fans...

Houston Fans, I think, are split 70-30 for drafting VY.

All other fans in the country are split 60-40 for drafting Bush.

Listen my fellow Houston Texans, you've done this for 14 years now. It should be quite easy:

Go Bush in 06!!!
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Old 01-11-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texanmojo.com
All I keep reading about is that Kubiak is as good as here. We just need to wait until the Broncos lose.
I wouldn't mind waiting until after the SB. Hope they win it too.

Imagine the headlines (if we draft VY)
Both hometown guys come home after winning it all at their current level as well as getting paid millions.
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Old 01-11-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geofb
The Texans own coaching staff basically admitted it wasn't a fact since they played fruit basket shuffle with the o-line after the season had started. They knew they were in the soup big time and were grasping at straws trying to fix the problem. The line had more than enough time to gel and it didn't. Are you suggesting we should bring back Wand to start for a few more years so he will have adequate gel time?
I think you are a year too late to bring up Wand's name as a problem. Heck, last off-season it was "replace Wand and everything will be all right". Well, they did and it wasn't.

Wand is not nearly so bad as he made out to be. Is he as good as Orlando Pace? No. Is he better than Victor Riley? Absolutely.

The line is a team game. The best LG/LT combination we had available this year was Pitts/Wand, and it was never used. I'm not saying that Pitts is a bad tackle. I'm saying that Pitts/Wand is better than McKinney/Pitts or Brown/Pitts.

Keep this in mind too. Wand went 1 on 1 with everyone last year. Pitts had constant inside help on Freeney and even some other lesser DE's. Against Seattle he had a large amount of tight end help. Had we run a similar double team scheme more last year with Pitts and Wand this wouldn't even be a topic for debate.

Coaching was far more responsible for the pathetic line play than any player.
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Old 01-11-2006   #17
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I can agree with that geofb. Though I also think you have to give every player that we put on the line a chance, and not just immediatly jump to the "this isnt an improvement" arguement. You never know how a player is going to perform in a different scheme, or for a different team. Foley and the Chargers are a good example of this.
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Old 01-11-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exclude
Houston Fans, I think, are split 70-30 for drafting VY.

All other fans in the country are split 60-40 for drafting Bush.
You know, you bring up a good point. A GM and owner probably hates situations like this. Every now and then an inferior player will come along that is a hometown favorite. Pretty much the rest of the country realizes the wise choice is to take the best player which is the non-hometown player but the locals want their hometown favorite. The GM and owner know they are in for trouble.

If this were any city other than Houston, it would be a no-brainer. After all, VY isn't even the best QB in the draft, let alone the best player. But we unfortunately have the hometown favorite issue to cloud things.

Fortunately, from what I've read it appears the Texans plan to make the wise choice and kick the beloved hometown favorite to the curb. It's the right move.
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Old 01-11-2006   #19
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personally id say this board is more 50-50 ..with half in favor of VY, and the other in favor of Bush or a Trade Down.

As for the rest of the NFL community.. from what ive seen it is more like 80-20 or 90-10 in favor of Bush or a Trade Down over VY.


not that this has a lot of bearing on the coversation or anything
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Old 01-11-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyvice
Regardless of what the company line says, we won't make the playoffs next year.
A tough year coming, for sure. Me, I'd feel a lot better facing it if I knew Vince Young was under contract and preparing to take over the QB slot.
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