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Old 01-11-2006   #1
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Default "IT" - The difference between VY and Carr

Now this isn't just another thread praising VY, and crapping on Carr.......this is the main difference between these 2 players....I like to call it, the "IT" factor......Like I've mentioned before David is a nice going, classy, family guy....now while this may be good traits to have as a person, when you're the "leader" of your team it might not be the best thing.......I think everyone can agree (even Carr supporters), that David has never shown that fire after losing Sunday after Sunday.....it's usually the same old easy going, smiling QB after each game, even if they got crushed.....now as a leader of your team, I expect a guy to have a nasty, disgusting look on his face....why???.....not because he's a bad sport or because he's too immature to handle a loss....because he's a leader, and damnit, that's what leaders do..........Now lets take a look at VY........After losing out to Reggie Bush for the Heisman he was angry, disgruntled, perhaps even a little depressed.....so what did Vince do, first he displayed his displeasure to the national media, saying that he let his University, Family, and even the city of Houston down.....Vince used losing the Heisman, as fuel for the fire.......he said to himself (and in various articles) that he WANTED to prove everyone wrong, by going out at the Rose Bowl and playing fantastic........that he did, and after the game he even chanted "who's the heisman".....now some may say this is cocky, but it ain't cocky if you can back it up........when it comes down to it, we can argue all day about Carr not having a line, and having bad coaching as an excuse for his average play.....and those things are good excuses....but one thing we can't argue is that Carr does not have, what Vince has.....and that's not foot speed, or reading a defense, it's "IT".......Hakeem Olajuwon had "IT", when David Robinson was handed the MVP trophy in the 95 WCF, Hakeem went out and flat out embarrassed D Rob throughout the series......Michael Jordan had "IT" when he was accused of being a one man show, who would never win titles.....we all know how that turned out.....the bottom line is that we can argue all day, about the pros and cons of each QB, but when it comes down to it, Vince Young has "IT" and David doesn't.

Feel free to discuss
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Old 01-11-2006   #2
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Vince Young hasn't played in the pros. David Carr has never had enough time to execute plays behind his o-line.

I will stand behind Carr until he proves he can't lead the team. He is the face of our team.

That is all.
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Old 01-11-2006   #3
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Vince Young hasn't played in the pros. David Carr has never had enough time to execute plays behind his o-line.

I will stand behind Carr until he proves he can't lead the team. He is the face of our team.

That is all.
No offense but that post really had nothing to do with my post....this isn't about executing plays or Vince not playing in the pros, this is about the "IT" factor.
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Old 01-11-2006   #4
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A lot of people have confidence and appear to be great leaders when they are in college. The NFL is much different.
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Old 01-11-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aggiechance
Vince Young hasn't played in the pros. David Carr has never had enough time to execute plays behind his o-line.

I will stand behind Carr until he proves he can't lead the team. He is the face of our team.

That is all.
I believe the man was trying to say "You can have IT in Grade school and Jr high, but IT takes on a whole new meaning when you step onto the Highschool grounds. Not to diminish your fine post, but perhaps VY needs to have tasted what DC has before we compare the IT factor between them.
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Old 01-11-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dream
Now this isn't just another thread praising VY, and crapping on Carr.......this is the main difference between these 2 players....I like to call it, the "IT" factor......Like I've mentioned before David is a nice going, classy, family guy....now while this may be good traits to have as a person, when you're the "leader" of your team it might not be the best thing.......I think everyone can agree (even Carr supporters), that David has never shown that fire after losing Sunday after Sunday.....it's usually the same old easy going, smiling QB after each game, even if they got crushed.....now as a leader of your team, I expect a guy to have a nasty, disgusting look on his face....why???.....not because he's a bad sport or because he's too immature to handle a loss....because he's a leader, and damnit, that's what leaders do..........Now lets take a look at VY........After losing out to Reggie Bush for the Heisman he was angry, disgruntled, perhaps even a little depressed.....so what did Vince do, first he displayed his displeasure to the national media, saying that he let his University, Family, and even the city of Houston down.....Vince used losing the Heisman, as fuel for the fire.......he said to himself (and in various articles) that he WANTED to prove everyone wrong, by going out at the Rose Bowl and playing fantastic........that he did, and after the game he even chanted "who's the heisman".....now some may say this is cocky, but it ain't cocky if you can back it up........when it comes down to it, we can argue all day about Carr not having a line, and having bad coaching as an excuse for his average play.....and those things are good excuses....but one thing we can't argue is that Carr does not have, what Vince has.....and that's not foot speed, or reading a defense, it's "IT".......Hakeem Olajuwon had "IT", when David Robinson was handed the MVP trophy in the 95 WCF, Hakeem went out and flat out embarrassed D Rob throughout the series......Michael Jordan had "IT" when he was accused of being a one man show, who would never win titles.....we all know how that turned out.....the bottom line is that we can argue all day, about the pros and cons of each QB, but when it comes down to it, Vince Young has "IT" and David doesn't.

Feel free to discuss
If Vince Young was from USC, you wouldn't even be having this discussion. Carr proved in 2004 that he could do the job. This year was a total meltdown involving every facet of the game and it is those many faceted integracies of the team that need to be fixed -- and that won't happen by burning a #1 overall on positions you are already strong at. It's irrelevant if Young is or isn't better than Carr. The fact is that Carr, if given a good supporting cast, is good enough to win and thus there is no need to draft either Young or Bush, for that matter. Get Carr the supporting cast.
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Old 01-11-2006   #7
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No matter the situation if you're losing or winning, you either have the "IT" factor or you don't.......The Lakers were horrible last year, but Kobe Bryant still had that "IT" factor.....to be honest when you're down, I think that's when you're really showing what you're made of.


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The fact is that Carr, if given a good supporting cast, is good enough to win
that's your opinion, not a fact.


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If Vince Young was from USC, you wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Dude I'm a Seminole for life when it comes to college football......I could care less where Vince is from, all I know is I think dude is a special talent and I want him on my home team.

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It's irrelevant if Young is or isn't better than Carr.
LOL.....why is it irrelevant?...I think it's VERY reletive.

Last edited by The Dream; 01-11-2006 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 01-11-2006   #8
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To keep things in perspective, though, many players have "IT" in college but are complete flops in the pros. Andre Ware, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerffel, Rashaan Salaamm, Jason White, Chris Weinke, Ron Dayne, Ty Detmer...just to name a few Heisman winners that were busts in the NFL. They definitely had some form of "IT" in the college ranks, though.

Not comparing any of the above examples to Vince Young. But rather pointing out that a great college career does not necessarily guarantee any measure of success in professional football.
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Old 01-11-2006   #9
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"IT" factor? Please! This is another argument that takes one guys "apples" experiences and compares them to another guys "oranges" accomplishments and then concludes that one of them (The guy they are in favor of) has "IT" but the other one (who they want replaced) doesn't.

"IT" is another imaginary scale that they can compare their hero to Carr on because all we have right now are some stats, which you can't directly compare because of the disparity between the Pro and College game, and a bunch of opinions.

Nobody is going to deny Vince Young a Heisman trophy every week. He's not going to turn some kind of percieved insult to his advantage for the duration of his career. For that matter Hakeem wasn't like the monster you saw destroy David Robinson for the vast majority of his career either. This is an excellent example of taking one performance (or in the case of Hakeem & Robinson a brief series of performances) far out of context and misinterpreting the results. Michael Jordan didn't put on a decade long display of "IT" when he finally won titles, he got a team around him which beat the hell out of trying to do it alone.

Next?
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Old 01-11-2006   #10
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Not to slam Carr (even though I'm sure someone will take it that way,) but a better option has presented itself now. When your team goes 2-14 and is the perennial laughingstock of the NFL, you don't "right the ship." You burn it.

When VY first started at UT, there was lots of outcry about how all he could do was run...he couldn't pass...can't read defenses. And, to an extent, they were right. He put the work in, watched film with the OC and got better. He got so much better, he even.... well, you know the rest of the story.

It's not like this is another Bucky Richardson (no offense, Ags. I was all for him when the Oilers got him. I still think he would've fared better in a diffent system.) He's proved the naysayers wrong by adapting and excelling.
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Old 01-11-2006   #11
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If you compare on equal terms, college being equal, Carr demonstrated the IT factor quite well if I recall. Awards proving the point. Whether he still has IT, and IT hasn't been knocked out of him, will be yet to be seen this next season. IMO
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Old 01-11-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dream
something about "IT"
OK, look we know hes got that and much more over Carr.

But can he help the Texans next year??? No, he will probably sit.

Can Bush help next year??? Yes, barring injury, he will definitely help.
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Old 01-11-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyvice
Not to slam Carr (even though I'm sure someone will take it that way,) but a better option has presented itself now. When your team goes 2-14 and is the perennial laughingstock of the NFL, you don't "right the ship." You burn it.

When VY first started at UT, there was lots of outcry about how all he could do was run...he couldn't pass...can't read defenses. And, to an extent, they were right. He put the work in, watched film with the OC and got better. He got so much better, he even.... well, you know the rest of the story.

It's not like this is another Bucky Richardson (no offense, Ags. I was all for him when the Oilers got him. I still think he would've fared better in a diffent system.) He's proved the naysayers wrong by adapting and excelling.

I don't think that we are a perennial laughing stock. Our record was 7-9 last year and that was the third year of our existence. We were a laughing stock this year but we have already made major changes by firing the coaching staff.
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Old 01-11-2006   #14
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"IT" factor? Please! This is another argument that takes one guys "apples" experiences and compares them to another guys "oranges" accomplishments and then concludes that one of them (The guy they are in favor of) has "IT" but the other one (who they want replaced) doesn't.

"IT" is another imaginary scale that they can compare their hero to Carr on because all we have right now are some stats, which you can't directly compare because of the disparity between the Pro and College game, and a bunch of opinions.

Nobody is going to deny Vince Young a Heisman trophy every week. He's not going to turn some kind of percieved insult to his advantage for the duration of his career. For that matter Hakeem wasn't like the monster you saw destroy David Robinson for the vast majority of his career either. This is an excellent example of taking one performance (or in the case of Hakeem & Robinson a brief series of performances) far out of context and misinterpreting the results. Michael Jordan didn't put on a decade long display of "IT" when he finally won titles, he got a team around him which beat the hell out of trying to do it alone.
This isn't about accomplishments, it's about having the fire and anger.....which David doesn't have.....it's imaginary?!?!?!? .......I'm sorry but I don't think I was imagining VY leading his team in Highschool and in College....and if you noticed my post wasn't even about stats, because I totally stayed away from that.......dude this isn't about misinterpreting anything, it's about showing that fire and desire to win......you ask every guy on that longhorn team who there leader is (even before the Rose Bowl) and they would tell you Vince......you know what would happen if you asked the Texans players that same question...........crickets would start chirping.......put aside the accomplishments, stats, excuses, and look at the different attitudes in between these two players.


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OK, look we know hes got that and much more over Carr.

But can he help the Texans next year??? No, he will probably sit.

Can Bush help next year??? Yes, barring injury, he will definitely help.
Dude this isn't just about next year, either if we draft Reggie or Vince, this will not be a playoff team next year.....there is a future beyond just "next year"
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Old 01-11-2006   #15
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To keep things in perspective, though, many players have "IT" in college but are complete flops in the pros. Andre Ware, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerffel, Rashaan Salaamm, Jason White, Chris Weinke, Ron Dayne, Ty Detmer...just to name a few Heisman winners that were busts in the NFL. They definitely had some form of "IT" in the college ranks, though.
This is true, but I don't think any of those guys are as talented as Vince.
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Old 01-11-2006   #16
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Didn't some people here criticize David Carr for celebrating after scoring a touchdown against the Rams this season?

Which one is it, does he show too much emotion or not enough?
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Old 01-11-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aggiechance
I will stand behind Carr until he proves he can't lead the team. He is the face of our team.

That is all.
Well, I guess it's time to sit down then. While Carr is still unproven as far as being a skilled player, he has already proven that he can't lead.

Sitting at 0-3 "This isn't a must win game, but it is a must play well game." said Carr
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Old 01-11-2006   #18
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Thumbs up YOU got it!!

in addition to the outrageous, unbelievable physical abilities of vince (carr is not in his class), vy has the will and confidence to put the entire team (players, coaches and fans) on his shoulders and lead them to victory in clutch situations - the players, coaches and fans at madison and texas know this. carr? NO.
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Old 01-11-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr it guy
This is true, but I don't think any of those guys are as talented as Vince.
Man, its like fighting fire with gasoline...
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Old 01-11-2006   #20
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Man, its like fighting fire with gasoline
You're insane if you think any of those guys had as much talent or potential as VY, when they came outta college.
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