Capers final legacy....

[Ibar_Harry]

Not only did he leave loosing, those loses are leaving the Texans in turmoil. If the team had won 1 or 2 more games Mr. McNair would not be in the position he is in. That's what McNair wanted. He likes David Carr, but most of you fans do not. Most of you do not like Bush, but I think he does. Now, he has a hot potato in Young. I guess Capers is having the last laugh after all.

Most of you think Fresno State was a push over, but we should have beat SC. Texas beat SC by a last minute TD and suddenly Vince Young is the greatest think, since hmm. May be Texas and SC were not the best based on Fresno States play. How many QB's from Nebraska are in the NFL. There is a reason, but most of you won't hear it. He is the home town hero, but at the end of the day I suspect it's time for Carr to move on if he has a choice. He has no future with the Texans no matter how McNair feels. There simply will be too much animosity in Houston for David. That is quite frankly what it has come to. If he thought it was bad when his wife had beer poored over her just wait till next year. I think its time for him to realistically consider his options and it should be trade me or else. Anybody who reads this board gets a real feeling of what the Texans fans think of David. He's taken a lot of beatings for you, but you don't respect what he has had to endure with the O-line and the coaching staff that surrounded him. My comment would be he has a son who needs him as well as the rest of his family. They do not need to go through another year of hell.

[The Dream]

There simply will be too much animosity in Houston for David

like I've mentioned before, this city will have disgust for Carr either way (if we get vince or not) if he doesn't perform better.

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry

Not only did he leave loosing, those loses are leaving the Texans in turmoil. If the team had won 1 or 2 more games Mr. McNair would not be in the position he is in. That's what McNair wanted. He likes David Carr, but most of you fans do not. Most of you do not like Bush, but I think he does. Now, he has a hot potato in Young. I guess Capers is having the last laugh after all.

Most of you think Fresno State was a push over, but we should have beat SC. Texas beat SC by a last minute TD and suddenly Vince Young is the greatest think, since hmm. May be Texas and SC were not the best based on Fresno States play. How many QB's from Nebraska are in the NFL. There is a reason, but most of you won't hear it. He is the home town hero, but at the end of the day I suspect it's time for Carr to move on if he has a choice. He has no future with the Texans no matter how McNair feels. There simply will be too much animosity in Houston for David. That is quite frankly what it has come to. If he thought it was bad when his wife had beer poored over her just wait till next year. I think its time for him to realistically consider his options and it should be trade me or else. Anybody who reads this board gets a real feeling of what the Texans fans think of David. He's taken a lot of beatings for you, but you don't respect what he has had to endure with the O-line and the coaching staff that surrounded him. My comment would be he has a son who needs him as well as the rest of his family. They do not need to go through another year of hell.

Though I may agree with your statements regarding the OL, I disagree with your overall conclusion. History will ultimately show that the Capers legacy was filled with excitement and overachievement that stemmed from a coaching staff that began with absolutely nothing but NFL rejects and some kids fresh out of college and led them to the cusp of a non-losing season in the team's third year of infancy. Many fans will ultimately look back at the first three years of this team's history as its Golden Age when the stands were filled with electricity and expectancy. However, that very expectancy that Capers and his staff created will ultimately be looked upon as his Frankenstein's monster as the fans created unrealistic expectations due to the success of those first three years and then turned on him in his fourth year when things did not go well.

[robwoody]

Carr is no leader. We need a leader on the field that can rally the troops in the worst way. He still makes bad decisions and takes sacks by running out of bounds for a three yard loss instead of putting it in the stands. We don't need running backs or kick returner. We need a leader and someone the city can get behind and support. You can't go wrong if you go with Young. Win or lose it is the people's choice and us season ticket holders are paying the bills.

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by The Dream

like I've mentioned before, this city will have disgust ... either way (if we get vince or not) if the offensive line doesn't perform better.

Above quote fixed.

[Ibar_Harry]

Originally Posted by The Dream

like I've mentioned before, this city will have disgust for Carr either way (if we get vince or not) if he doesn't perform better.

I'm sorry, but I really think its beyond that now. Even if he plays well he will never be liked by the Houston fans. That's my take on this. I've seen a fine young man who had a lot of talent be destroyed by inept coaching. David only has a few remaining years. Its simply time to move on and let happen what will happen. McNair and company are backed into a corner. Again, Bob likes David a whole lot, but its simply impossible for David to stay in Houston.

[The Dream]

Well you would think it's impossible for him to stay, but it sounds like CC still wants him here (why, I don't know)

[robwoody]

Capers was just here for the ride. He didn't care if he won or lost. Texans like emotional coaches and players, that cry for joy win they win and cuss and cry when they lose, no matter what the situation. Capers, Carr, and Casserly are all "ho hum" personalities. You don't smile after a loss, you hang your head an apologize to your fans not getting it done and take it out on the next oppenent.

[Ibar_Harry]

Originally Posted by robwoody

Carr is no leader. We need a leader on the field that can rally the troops in the worst way. He still makes bad decisions and takes sacks by running out of bounds for a three yard loss instead of putting it in the stands. We don't need running backs or kick returner. We need a leader and someone the city can get behind and support. You can't go wrong if you go with Young. Win or lose it is the people's choice and us season ticket holders are paying the bills.

Your comments just prove my point. I'm again saying its not realistic for David to think about remaining in Houston at this point. Its simply time to move on. I think in this case his family has to come first and there's a time when nothing else matters. If he were single he might want to stay and try to prove everyone wrong. That would be a choice based on pride. But with a family, no its simply time to say thank you Houston, but good bye and good luck....

[The Dream]

Not trying to seem like I'm bashing Carr, but I agree with robwoody....one of the things that has always scratch my head is when Carr seems so joyful after losing week after week.....I'm not asking for the guy to be a Ron Artest type, but damnit show me you care.

[tulexan]

I actually believe that if he and the team are successful the fans will get over it. Success usually outweighs all other factors about a player.

[robwoody]

Originally Posted by The Dream

Well you would think it's impossible for him to stay, but it sounds like CC still wants him here (why, I don't know)

:brickwall CC would have the first person I fired!!!!!!!!!!

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry

I'm sorry, but I really think its beyond that now. Even if he plays well he will never be liked by the Houston fans. That's my take on this. I've seen a fine young man who had a lot of talent be destroyed by inept coaching. David only has a few remaining years. Its simply time to move on and let happen what will happen. McNair and company are backed into a corner. Again, Bob likes David a whole lot, but its simply impossible for David to stay in Houston.

Where do you get the idea that Carr isn't liked by Houston fans? Most intelligent followers of the team either like Carr or else are holding back their opinions on him until the team finally fields an offensive line that doesn't threaten the record for most sacks allowed in a season.

[AustinJB]

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry

Not only did he leave loosing, those loses are leaving the Texans in turmoil. If the team had won 1 or 2 more games Mr. McNair would not be in the position he is in. That's what McNair wanted. He likes David Carr, but most of you fans do not. Most of you do not like Bush, but I think he does. Now, he has a hot potato in Young. I guess Capers is having the last laugh after all.

Most of you think Fresno State was a push over, but we should have beat SC. Texas beat SC by a last minute TD and suddenly Vince Young is the greatest think, since hmm. May be Texas and SC were not the best based on Fresno States play. How many QB's from Nebraska are in the NFL. There is a reason, but most of you won't hear it. He is the home town hero, but at the end of the day I suspect it's time for Carr to move on if he has a choice. He has no future with the Texans no matter how McNair feels. There simply will be too much animosity in Houston for David. That is quite frankly what it has come to. If he thought it was bad when his wife had beer poored over her just wait till next year. I think its time for him to realistically consider his options and it should be trade me or else. Anybody who reads this board gets a real feeling of what the Texans fans think of David. He's taken a lot of beatings for you, but you don't respect what he has had to endure with the O-line and the coaching staff that surrounded him. My comment would be he has a son who needs him as well as the rest of his family. They do not need to go through another year of hell.

Well-made point about the situation DC put McNair in. I appreciate the difficult decision that McNair has ahead of him. I think most of us do and that's why there have been so many heated discussions regarding it lately (although even as a VY proponent, I think it's all gotten a little ridiculous).

I do think you're right about the way fans will perceive Carr from now on. Even if we keep him and he is successful, but for sake of argument, VY is better and the only reason we can't win our division is b/c he is beating us twice a year, then fans will hold it against him. I am a Carr fan also. I think that he will be successful in the NFL if he gets a good supporting cast. I have always stood up for him against all the naysayers. He takes a beating every game, every year and (until mid-season this year) never complained at all. I mean geez, he has taken more sacks in the last four years than any QB ever has in their first four years. True, many this year were his fault; but that is a direct result of the opposing DL on top of him about 2.5 secounds after he snapped the ball. Hell, the few times he did have time to throw the ball, he had forgotten what to do w/ it.

So, IF Carr goes, I will definitely be a little sentimental...even though I would be thrilled to have VY. I would wish him the best wherever he goes and cheer him on (except when he plays us). The only reason I want to get VY is b/c I think he is one of the special QBs that you don't always have the chance to get. It's not b/c I think everything is Carr's fault. I just don't think Carr has the star potential that VY does. Carr's upside as a QB is middle-of-the-pack....even though I appreciate all that he has sacrificed for this franchise.

[Porky]

I realize you have a man crush on David, and that he can do no wrong. But at what point does Carr take on the responsibilty of his poor performance? Sure, he could have received better coaching, but naturally gifted players find a way to be productive. He hasn't shown even basic things that I expect out of a top QB that are outside of the coaches control - such as leadership, among many others. The coach is there to maximize the God given potential , not to create it. I have been reading you for months now making suggestions that Capers/Palmer/Pendry is Gepetto to David Carr's Pinnochio, as if they have strings attached to him, and he has no independent thought or will of his own. If that's the case, then how can one argue he is a franchise QB. You simply cannot have it both ways. You are making a circular argument. It reminds me of a dog chasing its own tail. You're like a broken record, and I am tired of the soundtrack. :brickwall

[JDizzle]

What would be worse is if you had Young and Carr on the roster. Carr would get boo'd out of Texas the second he threw and incomplete pass, Young's followers would demand he start from then on, and I imagine things wouldn't be all that fun in the locker room.

[AustinJB]

Originally Posted by Porky

I realize you have a man crush on David, and that he can do no wrong. But at what point does Carr take on the responsibilty of his poor performance? Sure, he could have received better coaching, but naturally gifted players find a way to be productive. He hasn't shown even basic things that I expect out of a top QB that are outside of the coaches control - such as leadership, among many others. The coach is there to maximize the God given potential , not to create it. I have been reading you for months now making suggestions that Capers/Palmer/Pendry is Gepetto to David Carr's Pinnochio, as if they have strings attached to him, and he has no independent thought or will of his own. If that's the case, then how can one argue he is a franchise QB. You simply cannot have it both ways. You are making a circular argument. It reminds me of a dog chasing its own tail. You're like a broken record, and I am tired of the soundtrack. :brickwall

I hope you're not responding to me b/c I just said I appreciate the beating he's taking, but I still want VY. And if you are referring to me, you haven't been reading me for months b/c I just joined the MB earlier this week.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry

He has no future with the Texans no matter how McNair feels. There simply will be too much animosity in Houston for David. That is quite frankly what it has come to. If he thought it was bad when his wife had beer poored over her just wait till next year. I think its time for him to realistically consider his options and it should be trade me or else. Anybody who reads this board gets a real feeling of what the Texans fans think of David.

Man, Ibar, interesting take. And you could very well be correct.

Next season could be a make or break year for Carr, and there won't any understanding from a lot of fans about a new coaching staff or whatever. It's put up or shut up time for a lot of folks, and even moreso if they don't get their way (ie. drafting Young).

He'll be on a tightrope getting shot at from many angles. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to ask for a trade. Maybe a new city would give him half a chance in 2006. It's a shame that professional sports fans have gotten this extreme, really.

[Porky]

Originally Posted by AustinJB

I hope you're not responding to me b/c I just said I appreciate the beating he's taking, but I still want VY. And if you are referring to me, you haven't been reading me for months b/c I just joined the MB earlier this week.

Since you just joined, that might be a clue I was not referring to you. LOL. I was referring to the thread starter of course, who has been on this same mantra for months, if not years. He is a one trick pony. It's like watching the Indy 500. He goes round and round in circles for years, and never gets off the track. He doesn't even take pit stops.

[AustinJB]

Originally Posted by Porky

Since you just joined, that might be a clue I was not referring to you. LOL. I was referring to the thread starter of course, who has been on this same mantra for months, if not years. He is a one trick pony. It's like watching the Indy 500. He goes round and round in circles for years, and never gets off the track. He doesn't even take pit stops.

Gotcha!