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Old 01-10-2006   #1
Janus3
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Default Question to all the fans of Reggie Bush

first off i want to say of the texans take reggie bush, i won't be upset he's a good athlete. now my question, what exactly is wrong with domanick davis? i mean he's a 1000 yard back with a bad oline. if they draft a franchise LT like d'brickshaw ferguson wouldn't you think that would benefit both carr and davis? it only makes sense to trade down to the 3 or 4 and get him all the while obtaining more picks. and it looks like the texans can get a kings ransom for this pick or at least something similar to what the chargers got in exchange for eli manning. i just don't see how having both reggie and domanick would help when the oline still has not been addressed. thoughts?
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Old 01-10-2006   #2
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The Texans OL is actually pretty good for run blocking. They are just really bad in pass protection. Davis is a good back, but with Bush you are adding another weapon in addition to AJ and DD. I am assuming that there will be a lot of packages where you will see both Davis and Bush on the field at the same time. Maybe some where they are both in the back field, maybe some where Davis is the deep back and Bush is in the slot or as a wideout. Having two quality backs will allow both players to stay healthy for the entire season and let them both have fresh legs.
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Old 01-10-2006   #3
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drafting Reggie Bush is the biggest "no-brainer" ever in my opinion

Bush and Davis can compliment one another much like Bush and White did at USC, Reggie is the ultimate weapon, he can be used in a variety of ways on the field, we could draft Reggie and then draft lineman with our other 7 picks if they so choose, but to pass up Reggie would be the worst possible mistake the Texans have made yet
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Old 01-10-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus3
first off i want to say of the texans take reggie bush, i won't be upset he's a good athlete. now my question, what exactly is wrong with domanick davis? i mean he's a 1000 yard back with a bad oline. if they draft a franchise LT like d'brickshaw ferguson wouldn't you think that would benefit both carr and davis? it only makes sense to trade down to the 3 or 4 and get him all the while obtaining more picks. and it looks like the texans can get a kings ransom for this pick or at least something similar to what the chargers got in exchange for eli manning. i just don't see how having both reggie and domanick would help when the oline still has not been addressed. thoughts?
I'm a VY fan and Bush fan...go figure. Bush has break away speed, you can line him up as receiver opposite Johnson, use him as a decoy, and have him return kicks although I don't think he would be doing that...depends on the situation I guess. He could also pass on a trick play.

He will snap some ankes before he retires...and that's pretty cool.
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Old 01-10-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieBushFan
drafting Reggie Bush is the biggest "no-brainer" ever in my opinion

Bush and Davis can compliment one another much like Bush and White did at USC, Reggie is the ultimate weapon, he can be used in a variety of ways on the field, we could draft Reggie and then draft lineman with our other 7 picks if they so choose, but to pass up Reggie would be the worst possible mistake the Texans have made yet

The no-brainer is to trade down, but sounds like it won't happen...at some point you have to pass.
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Old 01-10-2006   #6
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There is no reason that we can't utilize DD and Bush like USC utilized Bush and Lendale...Davis is a decent back, but he is far too injury prone for my liking...If we were to draft Bush, we would likely finally be able to have Davis play in all 16 games...

As far as Ferguson is concerned, I've never been too impressed with him and I fail to see what makes him so "elite"...He can handle speed rushers fine, but he gets beat on bull rushes...He is also not a very adept run blocker...If we were to draft him, he'd likely ride the pine for a season while he works to build up his size and strength, both of which being areas for concern for him...If we were going to trade down for an OT, I'd rather trade down for Winston, who could get some PT at RT as a rookie, then be poised to compete with Pitts going into his sophomore season...
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Old 01-10-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-ReK
As far as Ferguson is concerned, I've never been too impressed with him and I fail to see what makes him so "elite"...He can handle speed rushers fine, but he gets beat on bull rushes...He is also not a very adept run blocker...If we were to draft him, he'd likely ride the pine for a season while he works to build up his size and strength, both of which being areas for concern for him...If we were going to trade down for an OT, I'd rather trade down for Winston, who could get some PT at RT as a rookie, then be poised to compete with Pitts going into his sophomore season...
Typically O-line guys picked in the top 10 do well in the NFL and I'm guessing he will be no different. He is a ton better than anyone we have now, that's for sure...
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Old 01-10-2006   #8
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all good points. draft should be interesting.
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Old 01-10-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by BREAZE
Typically O-line guys picked in the top 10 do well in the NFL and I'm guessing he will be no different. He is a ton better than anyone we have now, that's for sure...
I beg to differ...Most of the recent top 10 OTs (Mike Williams, Jordan Gross, Robert Gallery) have not lived up to the hype they had surrounding them before the draft...Each of them were supposed to be "the next great tackle" and none of them have had any success at protecting their QB's blindside...The thing that these three have going for them, though, is that they had the strength and ability to play either RG or RT, which Ferguson can't do...
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Old 01-10-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-ReK
I beg to differ...Most of the recent top 10 OTs (Mike Williams, Jordan Gross, Robert Gallery) have not lived up to the hype they had surrounding them before the draft...Each of them were supposed to be "the next great tackle" and none of them have had any success at protecting their QB's blindside...The thing that these three have going for them, though, is that they had the strength and ability to play either RG or RT, which Ferguson can't do...
Good points, although I would take all 4 in a second right now...
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Old 01-10-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus3
first off i want to say of the texans take reggie bush, i won't be upset he's a good athlete. now my question, what exactly is wrong with domanick davis? i mean he's a 1000 yard back with a bad oline. if they draft a franchise LT like d'brickshaw ferguson wouldn't you think that would benefit both carr and davis? it only makes sense to trade down to the 3 or 4 and get him all the while obtaining more picks. and it looks like the texans can get a kings ransom for this pick or at least something similar to what the chargers got in exchange for eli manning. i just don't see how having both reggie and domanick would help when the oline still has not been addressed. thoughts?
I have been a fan of trading down all along, but between drafting Reggie vs. drafting Young, I'm all for Reggie. That said, Ferguson would probably help the passing game, but he's not going to help the running game at all since he is pretty small/weaker than most OT, that's why I would prefer to take Eric Winston rather than Ferguson.
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Old 01-10-2006   #12
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Reasons DD is not a solid #1 RB:
1. DD is injury prone.
2. DD has 4 100 rushing games every year. I realize his YPG is high, but we need a RUNNING back. We need someone who can get more 100 yard games and help control the clock. Portis had 9 100 yard games this year which is the reason Washington is in the playoffs (and he can pass block - but he sucks for fantasy because he doesn't score)
3. DD is injury prone.
4. We need a RB that can pass block, which DD can't. If he could block better, Carr would have had a lot more time to throw to WRs instead of dumping off to DD. Side effect: As our OL improves, we should throw more to WRs and less to RBs, which means DD value will decrease
5. DD is injury prone.
6. DD does not break long runs. Even when DD gets a big hole, he gets caught. We need a RB that is threat to take it to the house if he breaks through the line. DD had 2 games this year where he had 44 yard runs, and didn't score (note that both of these games were against Tenn who was terrible this year). His next longest run was 29 yards, and didn't score (against Balt). After that his longest rushing gains per game were: 19, 18, 15, 13, 12, 11, 7, and 6 (nad his previous years are similar). His longest pass catches were 30 and 33 yards. He just isn't fast.
7. DD is injury prone.
8. DD does not score rushing TDs. He had 2 rushing tds all year. Arguably this is an anomaly for this year, or it could be a trend.
9. Did I mention DD is injury prone?

Untrue Bush comparisons:
(I think everyone admits he is fast(4.28 40), can catch and has awesome juke moves - I taped his games against UT and UCLA and watched some of his runs in slow motion, the only thing I could say is WOW) (before watching those games I was in the "trade the pick" category, as I have been since year one)
1. He can't pass block: The dude is a great blocker - as other posters have attested to.
2. He is too small and weak to go inside: He benches over 400 pounds, is 6 foot and 220 pounds.
According to CBS: Alexander is 5'11 and 220; LJ is 6'1 and 230; LT is 5'10 and 220; Tiki is 5'10 and 200; EJames is 6' and 215. So, it's not his size or strength that is the problem (Carroll played to the strength of each of his stud RBs - Bush's speed and White's size - but that doesn't mean Bush can't get his inside - watch the UCLA game film for proof). Also, like most RBs, he will add about 20 pounds of bulk over the next two years.
3. He is too . . . . err... that's about it.

DD's limitations aside, I have no problem keeping DD, as a complement to Bush. If we can't get anything for him, keep him (and trade Morency for a 4th or keep him too). It would be nice to have depth and strength at a position (especially RB due to the higher injury % for RBs).
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Old 01-10-2006   #13
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Could Wells be made an H-back? Put him in the backfield with Davis with Bush in the slot?
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Old 01-10-2006   #14
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Also Bush averages 8.6 a carry.

Bush longs per game of (this year): 78, 65, 65, 65, 45, 42, 41, 38, 34 . . . . not one game this year without a long over 10 yards. (note that this is not his longest runs of the year - just a listing of his longest runs per game).

His TD runs average over 30 yards. (DD doesn't even have 1 TD run of 30 yards)
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Old 01-10-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xman
Reasons DD is not a solid #1 RB:
1. DD is injury prone.
2. DD has 4 100 rushing games every year. I realize his YPG is high, but we need a RUNNING back. We need someone who can get more 100 yard games and help control the clock. Portis had 9 100 yard games this year which is the reason Washington is in the playoffs (and he can pass block - but he sucks for fantasy because he doesn't score)
3. DD is injury prone.
4. We need a RB that can pass block, which DD can't. If he could block better, Carr would have had a lot more time to throw to WRs instead of dumping off to DD. Side effect: As our OL improves, we should throw more to WRs and less to RBs, which means DD value will decrease
5. DD is injury prone.
6. DD does not break long runs. Even when DD gets a big hole, he gets caught. We need a RB that is threat to take it to the house if he breaks through the line. DD had 2 games this year where he had 44 yard runs, and didn't score (note that both of these games were against Tenn who was terrible this year). His next longest run was 29 yards, and didn't score (against Balt). After that his longest rushing gains per game were: 19, 18, 15, 13, 12, 11, 7, and 6 (nad his previous years are similar). His longest pass catches were 30 and 33 yards. He just isn't fast.
7. DD is injury prone.
8. DD does not score rushing TDs. He had 2 rushing tds all year. Arguably this is an anomaly for this year, or it could be a trend.
9. Did I mention DD is injury prone?

Untrue Bush comparisons:
(I think everyone admits he is fast(4.28 40), can catch and has awesome juke moves - I taped his games against UT and UCLA and watched some of his runs in slow motion, the only thing I could say is WOW) (before watching those games I was in the "trade the pick" category, as I have been since year one)
1. He can't pass block: The dude is a great blocker - as other posters have attested to.
2. He is too small and weak to go inside: He benches over 400 pounds, is 6 foot and 220 pounds.
According to CBS: Alexander is 5'11 and 220; LJ is 6'1 and 230; LT is 5'10 and 220; Tiki is 5'10 and 200; EJames is 6' and 215. So, it's not his size or strength that is the problem (Carroll played to the strength of each of his stud RBs - Bush's speed and White's size - but that doesn't mean Bush can't get his inside - watch the UCLA game film for proof). Also, like most RBs, he will add about 20 pounds of bulk over the next two years.
3. He is too . . . . err... that's about it.

DD's limitations aside, I have no problem keeping DD, as a complement to Bush. If we can't get anything for him, keep him (and trade Morency for a 4th or keep him too). It would be nice to have depth and strength at a position (especially RB due to the higher injury % for RBs).
I've spent the last week arguing against all the Vince posts and I see i's time for another Reggie one. Davis has had some injury problems, but those have been a result of keeping him in every single play of the game. No other teams do that, they all sub their stars out every once in a while, and that is the reason we have Wells and Morency here, but the coaches still refused to use them. I don't think Davis will be able to average 22 carries a game without maybe having some problems, but he can get 18-20 a game, and Well/Morency are more than capable of coming in for 10 carries a game between them. Davis is not a very good pass blocker, but I don't think they've really worked on that at all with him, not to mention Reggie is not a good pass blocker either and if he's so great at receiving then we don't want him stuck in the backfield blocking. Again, an improved OLine will drastically help that problem. Davis has not had many long runs, but that doesn't mean he can't be an effective RB. In 2004, Curtis Martin led the NFL in rushing with 1697 yards and 12 rushing TDs, and averaged 4.6 yards per carry, yet his longest run of the year was 25 yards. I'm pretty sure 1697 yards, 4.6 ypc, and 12 TDs aren't considered bad by anyone, and his team made the playoffs and won the first round game on the road. Shaun Alexander and Corey Dillon had 1696 and 1635 yards and averaged 4.8 and 4.7 ypc respectively last year, and their longest run on the year was 44 yards. Edgerrin James had 1548 yards and 4.6 ypc and his long was 40 yards. Larry Johnson had 1750 yards, 20 TDs and averaged 5.2 ypc this year and his longest run was 49 yards this year. Clinton Portis had 1516 yards, 11 TDs, and averaged 4.3 ypc this year and his longest run was 47 yards. Edgerrin James this year had 1506 yards, 13 TDs, and averaged 4.2 ypc, and his longest run was 33 yards, as was Rudi Johnson's longest run, and he had 1458 yards and 12 TDs this year. RBs don't always have to break long runs to be effective. Davis did not have many rushing TDs this year, but he did have another 4 receiving TDs, plus the offense was horrible this year and was rarely in position for him to score. Finally, Bush is not 220, he is listed at 200. I rarely if ever saw him run inside, and most any RB in the NFL can bench press 400 lbs, plus there is a difference between 5-10 200 lbs. and 6-0 200 lbs. Anyways, that's it for now. Thanks for giving me a break from arguing against all these Vince posts. I am a fan of trading down, but if we stay at #1 I'm all for drafting Reggie Bush rather than Vince Young, I can at least see how he can come in and improve the team and add something to it without having to remove one of our four best players.
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Old 01-10-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xman
Also Bush averages 8.6 a carry.

Bush longs per game of (this year): 78, 65, 65, 65, 45, 42, 41, 38, 34 . . . . not one game this year without a long over 10 yards. (note that this is not his longest runs of the year - just a listing of his longest runs per game).

His TD runs average over 30 yards. (DD doesn't even have 1 TD run of 30 yards)

This is the only small worry I have with Bush is how will he do with only a small fraction of the wiggle room he has enjoyed at USC? DD really has to work for his yardage by boucing off guys and keeping those legs going. I will be curious to see what Bush does. I think at WR he will be able to create better, but can he poke through this line at RB and work his magic?
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Old 01-10-2006   #17
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As far as the OL goes - we can't fix it all overnight. I agree that I would ove to have a top OT (and OG for that matter).
BUT - I want a chance to win the SuperBowl - even if it is at least 4 years from now. The best chance at that is Bush (figuring we fix our other holes over the next 3 years).

What do we need:
Entire OL
TE
WR2
CB2
S
OLB (and MLB?)
DE

We need a LOT - it will take years. But, Bush will give us a chance at upsets and will be that guy that makes defense adjust (or get beat). Plus, with him in the backfield, the rest of our offense will be better.
If we add a good TE, a veteran #2WR and some OL, our offense will be very good. Our defense needs a lot also, but I think the O needs to be fixed first.

#1 Bush
#33 TE (if one of Lewis/Davis/Pope drops, I think at least one drops because 3 TEs in the 1st would be very odd)
Other options: OL - G Jean Giles will be a mauler; any of the forst round OTs that may fall (winston, scott, justice, mcneill and maybe O'callaghan)
#65 best OL (Tutui if he is still there)
#66 BPA
4th rounder - best OL (unless a stud drops)
I realize this mock doesn't cover WR or D, but WR is weak this year and OL is the strongest it has been in at least a decade (DL is decent/LB is ok/S is average/CB is below average).
Last year I would have said trade all our picks for future picks. But, this year I think we need to take the BPA at #1 and #33. Maybe we trade the 3rd rounders, but when we are so weak at OL and so many OL are in this draft it would be hard to do that.
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Old 01-10-2006   #18
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2. He is too small and weak to go inside: He benches over 400 pounds, is 6 foot and 220 pounds.
He actually is 6'0 200, not 220
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Old 01-10-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xman
As far as the OL goes - we can't fix it all overnight. I agree that I would ove to have a top OT (and OG for that matter).
BUT - I want a chance to win the SuperBowl - even if it is at least 4 years from now. The best chance at that is Bush (figuring we fix our other holes over the next 3 years).

What do we need:
Entire OL
TE
WR2
CB2
S
OLB (and MLB?)
DE

We need a LOT - it will take years. But, Bush will give us a chance at upsets and will be that guy that makes defense adjust (or get beat). Plus, with him in the backfield, the rest of our offense will be better.
If we add a good TE, a veteran #2WR and some OL, our offense will be very good. Our defense needs a lot also, but I think the O needs to be fixed first.

#1 Bush
#33 TE (if one of Lewis/Davis/Pope drops, I think at least one drops because 3 TEs in the 1st would be very odd)
Other options: OL - G Jean Giles will be a mauler; any of the forst round OTs that may fall (winston, scott, justice, mcneill and maybe O'callaghan)
#65 best OL (Tutui if he is still there)
#66 BPA
4th rounder - best OL (unless a stud drops)
I realize this mock doesn't cover WR or D, but WR is weak this year and OL is the strongest it has been in at least a decade (DL is decent/LB is ok/S is average/CB is below average).
Last year I would have said trade all our picks for future picks. But, this year I think we need to take the BPA at #1 and #33. Maybe we trade the 3rd rounders, but when we are so weak at OL and so many OL are in this draft it would be hard to do that.
Just a couple points:
1) We need a MLB much more than OLBs, all of our current LBs are OLB, we don't have a true MLB.
2) I really don't like picking a TE at #33. I think our current guys (Rivers and/or Joppru) could be good with a new offensive system, and there are some pretty good, proven TEs available in free agency, and if none of those work out this year then Olsen from Miami will be available in next year's draft, and hopefully we will have two 1st rounders after we trade down this year so we could look at getting a TE then.
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Old 01-10-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
He actually is 6'0 200, not 220
20 extra pounds would change his running style and a few opinions on him.
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