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Old 01-09-2006   #1
LongBignasty1
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Default A Question of leadership

David Carr and Vince Young are totally opposite when it comes to the respect and leadership of their team. When the texans were 1- 12 and Carr threw a TD pass he ran down the field like he just won the national championship with his arms all in the air. Vince Young in the national championship game going against the USC dynasty, on a 4th and 5 and down with less than 2 minutes scores to win the game. What does he do? He tucks the ball into his arm and walks off the field. Which QB garners the respect of his team? The one who acts like he has been there before.

Vince Young for Houstons Texans QB!
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Old 01-09-2006   #2
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So he isn't a leader because he doesn't show enough emotion after games, but he also isn't a leader because he shows too much emotion when they score touchdowns.

Which one is it?

I guess McNabb is a terrible leader because he celebrates after he scores touchdowns too.
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Old 01-09-2006   #3
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No, but i appreciate you trying to warp a simple statement, you don't pretend you just won the superbowl when your team is 1-12 and you score.

You also don't smile and joke around with your teammates when your getting your @$$ handed to you by the opposition. Tulexan you amaze me with your broad scope of vision with Carr and your narrowmindedness when it comes to Vince Young. I'm sure soon enough i'll come to expect it of you as you fail to keep an objective opinion on this matter. Oh by the way if the Texans don't draft Young do you think he will be a pro-bowl QB?
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Old 01-09-2006   #4
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So should he just be sullen all of the time? These guys play football because they like it. If they score a touchdown they are going to be happy. They aren't going to drag their feet up the field with their head down.

I think Vince Young has the potential to be a pro bowl QB just like every other QB in the league. If 6th round pick Tom Brady can be one, anyone can be one including David Carr and Vince Young. But he like every other QB has the potential to be a bust. I don't necessarily think that he will be one, but the transition from college to the NFL for a QB is harder than any other position.

Vince is a work in progress and will take a few years before he is starter material. My main concern about him is his lack of arm strength and that all running QB's slow down once they get in the league. His improvements in his passing have been impressive, but I am not yet convinced that he can beat you solely with his arm in the next level which is what he is going to have to do in a lot of games.
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Old 01-09-2006   #5
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Fair enough, except i do not think any QB in the league can be a pro bowl QB.
Quincy Carter? Drew Henson? Chris Simms? NO!!! C'mon guy, be realistic about it, Reggie Bush could also be a bust. Any argument should at least use points that can't be used for or against both sides. Please gimme something worthwhile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-09-2006   #6
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Maybe not every QB, but you get my point. To be a pro bowl QB you don't have to be a top pick in the draft. And that can be said about any position.

You are right, Reggie could be a bust. But at least if he is a bust it will have less of a negative impact on our team. If we commit to Vince and he is a bust then our team is screwed. If we commit to Reggie and he is a bust then we just have one less weapon on offense.
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Old 01-09-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
Maybe not every QB, but you get my point. To be a pro bowl QB you don't have to be a top pick in the draft. And that can be said about any position.

You are right, Reggie could be a bust. But at least if he is a bust it will have less of a negative impact on our team. If we commit to Vince and he is a bust then our team is screwed. If we commit to Reggie and he is a bust then we just have one less weapon on offense.

Pro Bowl QBS
Peyton Manning #1 overall
Carson Palmer #1 overall
Mike Vick #1 Overall

You dont have to be.....but it certainly helps
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Old 01-09-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swtbound07
Pro Bowl QBS
Peyton Manning #1 overall
Carson Palmer #1 overall
Mike Vick #1 Overall

You dont have to be.....but it certainly helps

Forgot to mention

Jake Delhomme undrafted
Matt Hasselbeck 6th round
Tom Brady 6th round
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Old 01-09-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
Forgot to mention

Jake Delhomme undrafted
Matt Hasselbeck 6th round
Tom Brady 6th round
Wasnt so much an ommission as my lack of awareness of the probowlers....so its 50/50?
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Old 01-09-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
Maybe not every QB, but you get my point. To be a pro bowl QB you don't have to be a top pick in the draft. And that can be said about any position.

You are right, Reggie could be a bust. But at least if he is a bust it will have less of a negative impact on our team. If we commit to Vince and he is a bust then our team is screwed. If we commit to Reggie and he is a bust then we just have one less weapon on offense.
Why? Is Reggie Bush the only option at RB for the Texans? Why can't they take a RB in the later rounds, free agency or in the next draft?
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Old 01-09-2006   #11
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What makes Vince SO special is that he has the leadership qualities of a Favre AND the athletic abilities of Vick. VY has icewater in his veins when the stakes are at the absolute highest. THEN he delivers the win. There are only a few like that, and Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, John Elway come to mind. This mix hasn't been seen since Elway at this position. Take a look at a few that come to mind.

Alex Smith - Smart, not so athletic. Too soon on leadership.

Vick - Athletic to the max. Leader, not so much.
It's all about Vick, just ask him

David Carr - Maybe? He is tough, I'll give him that.

Tom Brady - Leader first, skills improved, athlete 3rd.

Akili Smith - Athlete, poor leader.

Ryan Leaf - See above.

Brett Favre - Leader has his picture in the dictionary. If he was all that Athletic, maybe he wouldn't have been traded by the Falcons.

Mcnabb - Athlete AND leader.

Peyton Manning - ALL the goods.

Byron Leftwich - Athlete & good leader.

Chris Simms - Athletic, not a great leader.

Major Applewhite - The opposite.

Kordell Stewart - Athlete, poor leader.

Joey Harrington - Sucks on all counts.

Kyle Boller - See above.

Patrick Ramsey - Somewhat athletic, not a leader.

Mark Brunell - Running on leadership alone at this point.

Drew Brees - Leader, and smart.

Jake Delhomme - See above.

Matt Hasselbeck - See above

Dante Culpepper - Athletic. Leadership questioned.

Tim Couch - Athletic, poor leader.

Steve Mcnair - Athletic, great leader.
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Old 01-09-2006   #12
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Because Reggie isn't just a RB. I don't believe there is a single RB in the draft who could start either as a WR or a RB on most teams in the league. If you can find one then please tell me. Maurice Drew is a Reggie Bush Lite, but he is too small to line up as a receiver.
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Old 01-09-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long-Spurs-Texan
What makes Vince SO special is that he has the leadership qualities of a Favre AND the athletic abilities of Vick. This hasn't been seen since Elway at this position. Take a look at a few that come to mind.

Alex Smith - Smart, not so athletic. Too soon on leadership.

Vick - Athletic to the max. Leader, not so much.
It's all about Vick, just ask him

David Carr - Maybe? He is tough, I'll give him that.

Tom Brady - Leader first, skills improved, athlete 3rd.

Akili Smith - Athlete, poor leader.

Ryan Leaf - See above.

Brett Favre - Leader has his picture in the dictionary. If he was all that Athletic, maybe he wouldn't have been traded by the Falcons.

Mcnabb - Athlete AND leader.

Peyton Manning - ALL the goods.

Byron Leftwich - Athlete & good leader.

Chris Simms - Athletic, not a great leader.

Major Applewhite - The opposite.

Kordell Stewart - Athlete, poor leader.

Joey Harrington - Sucks on all counts.

Kyle Boller - See above.

Patrick Ramsey - Somewhat athletic, not a leader.

Mark Brunell - Running on leadership alone at this point.

Drew Brees - Leader, and smart.

Jake Delhomme - See above.

Matt Hasselbeck - See above

Dante Culpepper - Athletic. Leadership questioned.

Tim Couch - Athletic, poor leader.

Steve Mcnair - Athletic, great leader.
\

How in the world did major applewhite creep onto your list?
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Old 01-09-2006   #14
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I wouldn't say that Vince Young is athletic as Michael Vick. He is neither as strong nor as fast as Vick. He is closer to McNabb without the arm strength.
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Old 01-09-2006   #15
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LOL, I can't say the word Simms without Applewhite! Tulexan, Helmethair Kiper says that Vince projects better now than Vick does now. Booya.
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Old 01-09-2006   #16
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Hasn't Kiper always said that Vick was overrated?
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Old 01-09-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
Hasn't Kiper always said that Vick was overrated?

mel kiper is overrated
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Old 01-09-2006   #18
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but he does have some nice hair.

i've always thought that Mel's big board was kind of a cop out for avoiding to do mock drafts. this way he can't say that he was wrong during the draft.
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Old 01-09-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
but he does have some nice hair.

i've always thought that Mel's big board was kind of a cop out for avoiding to do mock drafts. this way he can't say that he was wrong during the draft.

finally we agree on something....on a side note, someone keeps taking potshots at my rep points.....is it you?
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Old 01-09-2006   #20
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not me.
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