Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2006   #1
YodAa
All Pro
 
YodAa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston,TX
Age: 23
Posts: 915
Rep Power: 10 YodAa is ridin' the pine
Send a message via AIM to YodAa
Default My Take on this

Come on guys I thought we were smart but some of you are rooting for Young and Bush and although you can make a good arguement for both most of you are making stupid arguements and making yourselfs look like fools. As much as we all wanna fool ourselves into thinking that Bush or Young would change our team around you know they won't. They both play behind very good OLs and we can't exactly give them that.

Why not Young? Because he has a very good OL and we don't so it'd be stupid to waste another QBs talents. Also if we did draft him he'd have to sit at least 1 year on the bench before his skills are ready for the NFL. David Carr has been here and done an OK job with what hes had to work with but I garuantee that if given a line Carr would be the Brett Favre. We can't give up on Carr without really testing him but the biggest reason why not to give up on him is that if he leaves and makes it big somewhere else we'll never here the end of some of yalls whining.

Why not Bush? Because we got DD and no line. You can say that DD is injury prone but he is a small RB and does run behind that line so why wouldn't the same happen to Bush?

The only way I could agree on drafting Bush or Young would be if we traded down with Tennessee 1st. They'd take either one with good reason since Vince has Steve and Leinart has Chow. Then NO takes whoevers left. If we got a good enough deal that included another 2nd rounder this year and some other picks this and next year AND there where no really good offers for Bush than I would take him.

But before you guys talk about how good Young and Bush will be you should also argue how good DaBrick will be because hes the Young/Bush of OTs and has just as much potential as them 2.
__________________
Bucs Super Bowl XLI Champs
YodAa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2006   #2
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2271 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

here are my arguements for and against ...well..everything.

Young: I agree with what you said.. but also think that he will not have that much more learning to do than Carr. Both will be in a new system...and both still have a great deal to learn about playing in the NFL. In Carrs case though.. he at least knows what he will be dealing with..and is experienced. He has also shown flashes of greatness at times.

Carr: I also agree with everything you said on Carr.. and would add that he has all the physical attributes to be a top notch QB..if someone can get his head on straight. The knock against him now though is that he has taken quite a beating.. he is a little bit "nervous looking" in the pocket.. and his career may well have been shortened.. unlike Young who will be a fresh start.

Bush: Sure we have DD..sure he does a great job.. sure Bush might not be any more durable than DD. The thing is that DD is signed for 3 years and we have been saying for a while that he is a great back, but is better suited to be a complimentary back. With DD and Bush both, we have two backs that can take 15 or so carries a game, and last for 16 games. And both of them are big threats catching the ball as well. I think getting Bush would really put our offense on the map.. especially with Johnson and Mathis coming around. Maybe even Joppru. The only real knock against Bush is that he may not really be NECESSARY.. we could probably get by without him, and we could trade down to meet other needs. And if we get Kubiak and he gets our oline working close to how Denver's does.. that would ease the pain a bit as well.

Dbrick: He looks alright to me.. but im not really sold on him as head and shoulders above some of the other OTs in the draft. Not to mention that Pitts has been a real surprise at LT, and I think he could hold down that position for us for the rest of his career. the Interior of the Oline strikes me as more important for us. However, we DO need a quality RT.. and getting someone like Dbrick would fix that for us. Either Dbrick or Pitts could play RT for us and do really well.. it could fix us up at OT for the next decade. But, I think we could meet this need in the second round with someone like Darryn Colledge or Winston Justice or Jonathan Scott.

Trading Down: This could be a great move for us.. but it could also bite us in the butt. There is no real guarantee with trading down, and lets face it.. even though the draft is a crapshoot.. there is a reason that top ten picks are selected in the top ten. Its because they are considered the most likely players to succeed in the NFL. Moving down LESSENS our chance of getting a real playmaker. ANd I dunno about you, but I dont plan on having too many top ten picks in my future.. as much as id like more picks, id also like to take advantage of this chance to get a real elite prospect.


So.. those are my opinions.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2006   #3
touttail
All Pro
 
touttail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baytown
Age: 58
Posts: 948
Rep Power: 10 touttail is ridin' the pine
Default

I stated in another post that neither will be that great without an OLine blocking for them!

Bobby 119C
touttail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2006   #4
Crazygomer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 21
Rep Power: 0 Crazygomer is ridin' the pine
Default

It's about time that someone starts making sense!

In my opinion, I agree with both of you guys. If we had to, I rather take Bush over young because I to still believe in David Carr. It's weird because last year everyone was talking about getting a better o-line for Carr at the end of the season. We never got that line and now people are wanting to replace him? I think we should wait and see what a good line can do for Carr.

Something else! I think that we really need a solid 2nd Wide Reciever. I've been saying this for the past few seasons. I like Johnson and Gaffney, but I think that Bradford is done, Mathis could be something in the future. Though, I think that we need to test Free Agency and pick up a solid Wide Out. I do like Armstrong, but I don't think he will ever really be anything big.
Crazygomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2006   #5
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2271 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I think with Johnson, Gaffney, Mathis, and Armstrong..we have a pretty nice WR corp. Bradford is cheap, i think we should hold on to him and give him a more limited role.. let the younger guys do their thing.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2006   #6
YodAa
All Pro
 
YodAa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston,TX
Age: 23
Posts: 915
Rep Power: 10 YodAa is ridin' the pine
Send a message via AIM to YodAa
Default

gaffney = bust
armstrong = slot
mathis = mayb a 2nd WR more of a slot

we need at least another decent receiver
__________________
Bucs Super Bowl XLI Champs
YodAa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2006   #7
Big B Texan Fan
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Spring TX
Age: 40
Posts: 1,098
Rep Power: 0 Big B Texan Fan has been demoted to the practice squad
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YodAa
gaffney = bust
armstrong = slot
mathis = mayb a 2nd WR more of a slot

we need at least another decent receiver
we need another CB as well. the rest we can work with
__________________
Kubiak is no mechanic!
Trade in the Carr and go with a Young-er model!
Big B Texan Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 01-08-2006   #8
HoustonFrog
Chitown Frog
 
HoustonFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago
Age: 44
Posts: 12,416
Rep Power: 30061 HoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

My take:

I'm not a fan of Carr at all, as I've written in here, but I think the smartest and most straight forward thing is Bush and then O-line in the early to middle rounds.(you have 3 more in the top 66) Fill in as much as you can through free agency. That way you keep your core and hopefully a new coach's direction will help. You give Carr that one year to see what he has. I DO believe Young will be a stud and can do better here but I don't like the cap hit if you sign Carr or use the franchise tag and then have to give all that money to Toung too.
HoustonFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2006   #9
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2271 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

how in the world is Gaffney a bust? he has been our second best receiver on this team.. and just about every time he touched the ball its a first down. He isnt utilized enough.. that is the only negative associated with him.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2006   #10
YodAa
All Pro
 
YodAa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston,TX
Age: 23
Posts: 915
Rep Power: 10 YodAa is ridin' the pine
Send a message via AIM to YodAa
Default

hes slow and makes stupid mistakes. Vs Bills this year Carr gets him wit a great bullet for a 20 yard pass and the guy doesn't even turn around and it just hits his shoulders and incomplete. Last year that one play where he celebrated before going in and fumbled..... hes not a #2 and its crap like this y our team sucks! We make excuses for some of these players that we no arn't the answer.
__________________
Bucs Super Bowl XLI Champs
YodAa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2006   #11
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2271 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

his mistakes are few and far between..and he hasnt been utilized enough to say what he is really capable of. What game was it where AJ was out and Gaffney was our #1 receiver? I remember him kicking major *** in that game.

I think he is far from a bust. not a superstar.. but definatly good enough to be a #2..and at LEAST a #3 receiver.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2006   #12
jmerog
Veteran
 
jmerog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 40
Posts: 264
Rep Power: 9 jmerog is a fan favorite
Default

Behind a growling,slobbering, brutish O-line, we can run the the ball with peewee herman if we have to for 5 at a time. An o-line gives Dave all day to throw and cures most of his ills and a few wins will cure the rest.

Imagine this: 1st down,20 YD line- four wide reciever set-Carr drops back to pass.he looks to his first read, Johnson, who is covered- then to the other side where Mathis (who has been practicing catches in the off season) is streaking down the sidelines streatching the defense to the breaking point. O-line is still providing impenatrable coverage so Dave has all day. They have a deep safety crossing to cover Mathis. Dave looks to his third read Mr. Automatic (armstrong), who is open because of all the coverage was focused on johnson, the flash (Mathis) and Gaffney. Armstrong catches the ball for a 23 YD gain.

1st down: 43 yd line, # WR set Johnson,Gaffney, Mathis-The ball is snapped.Carr drops back and goes through his reads and Does a play action pass to freeze the defense which is streatched all across the field, desperatly trying to cover both Mathis and johnson while still acounting for Gaffney. Dve hands the ball to DD. the o-line blows a hole ,which is easy because they are unnatural animals we traded our pick to get , and also because the defense is streatched across the field due to our studly recieving core.DD
hits the hole hard and goes the distance.

TOUCHDOWN!!!!
__________________
Texans honor the cow- we eat steak, wear leather, and pile our Tex-mex with cheese.
jmerog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2006   #13
rmartin65
I'm Score
 
rmartin65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 7,890
Rep Power: 53272 rmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Mathis is The Flash, I like that.
rmartin65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2006   #14
Chance_C
Site Contributor
 
Chance_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Livingston Texas
Age: 43
Posts: 1,520
Rep Power: 4103 Chance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respectedChance_C is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
gaffney = bust
armstrong = slot
mathis = mayb a 2nd WR more of a slot

we need at least another decent receiver
Gaffney a bust? Hardly a superstar, but hardly a bust.

Armstrong could very well be a good slot receiver. We don't know. Our exiled coaching staff didn't give him much opportunity. Despite the fact that he earned it. That's part of the concrete Caper's philosophy that really got to me this year. I mean, try something different!!

Mathis a slot? LOL.

We need at least another decent receiver; well I agree with that. And we need the forever elusive TE.
__________________
I'm a hell bent 100% Texan till I die...
Chance_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2006   #15
HoustonFrog
Chitown Frog
 
HoustonFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago
Age: 44
Posts: 12,416
Rep Power: 30061 HoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
his mistakes are few and far between..and he hasnt been utilized enough to say what he is really capable of. What game was it where AJ was out and Gaffney was our #1 receiver? I remember him kicking major *** in that game.

I think he is far from a bust. not a superstar.. but definatly good enough to be a #2..and at LEAST a #3 receiver.
When you are the #1 pick in the second round and you have his career, you are a bust, plain and simple. There were guys like Portis taken 18 picks below him. DeShaun Foster right after him. Andre Geroude, a good O-lineman below him. Josh Reed, a better receiver..after him. He is a bust. Heck, Antonio Bryant and Deion Branch were taken at the end of that round.

Last edited by HoustonFrog; 01-12-2006 at 12:31 PM.
HoustonFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2006   #16
kytitan
Rookie
 
kytitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 0 kytitan is ridin' the pine
Default

I thought it was crazy on our board.........to many fans thinking one guy will fix everything.......as good as the top 3 picks will be...if there ever was a year to get "good picks" to trade down this is the year.
kytitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2006   #17
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,800
Rep Power: 7857 El Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I don't think Vince Young will fix everything. I do believe we have other picks in this draft where we can get some of the issues we have addressed. I just think Vince is a once in a blue moon talent and we have an opportunity to get the talent we need for the long haul.
El Tejano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2006   #18
YodAa
All Pro
 
YodAa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston,TX
Age: 23
Posts: 915
Rep Power: 10 YodAa is ridin' the pine
Send a message via AIM to YodAa
Default

Gaffney Rd2 33th overall, Owens Rd3 89th overall

Gaffney is basically a borderline 1st rounder, if any 1st rounder played at the level gaffney plays you'd consider him a bust.

Mathis should play #2 or slot even if he doesn't make much of a direct impact atleast it should spread the field and make the other teams fastest guy cover him.
__________________
Bucs Super Bowl XLI Champs
YodAa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2006   #19
TEXANS84
Moderator
 
TEXANS84's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Age: 36
Posts: 7,473
Rep Power: 3261 TEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to TEXANS84 Send a message via Yahoo to TEXANS84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YodAa
Carr gets him wit a great bullet for a 20 yard pass and the guy doesn't even turn around and it just hits his shoulders and incomplete. Last year that one play where he celebrated before going in and fumbled..... hes not a #2 and its crap like this y our team sucks!
I remember a wide open Andre Johnson dropping a touchdown against the Ravens. Yet, for some reason nobody came down hard on him.
TEXANS84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2006   #20
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2271 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I dont judge talent based on when we got the player. If we took a tackle #1 overall and he never became more than a really good RT.. I wouldnt consider him a bust. I may wish that he had become Orlando Pace or Tony Boselli.. but I would not get rid of him because he is still playing an important role for the team.

So.. no.. he isnt the BEST player taken in the second round of that draft.. but he isnt the worst either.. and he helps the team.

He isnt a bust... hes a GOOD receiver.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger