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Old 01-07-2006   #1
jshlr4343
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Default Carr, Young, Bush

I happen to love David Carr and think he has gotten the bummest deal from the Texans. They owed him a little seasoning under an experienced quarterback - especially with a new franchise and all new players. Then they owed him an offensive scheme designed for him. Of course they owed him a line that would give him a little protection at least. Who knows how many years have been taken off his career because of the hits? Who knows if he will ever be the quarterback he could have been with confidence and the right support? He is the most decent guy, hardest playing guy (how many quarterbacks could take the pounding he has had without missing a game?) He is a very talented quarterback and can run as well as pass. He will be a very good quarterback in the NFL.

That said - I just don't believe the Texans should do anything other than draft Vince Young. This guy is the one in a million that comes along in a lifetime. He is Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. Actually I believe he is Brett Farve and Michael Vick in one. He has the athletic ability of Vick (except he's faster and can throw better), and he has the desire to win and the leadership of Brett Farve. He will be winning Super Bowls for the next 15 years. He can take a group of guys (even the rag tag bunch of Texans) and make them a cohesive team that has the desire to win. He can win the big games. He can have the cool and the confidence to never give up. He went against what all the experts were saying was the best college team of all time and won the game by his desire and his will and his athletic ability. Responsible for a record 467 yards.

Bush with all the great players on his team (all the starting guys are said to be able to go pro), was not able to take his team to victory. In fact LenDale White is the running back we should take if we want to keep Carr. White is the guy to go to for the TD's, for the red zone yards, for the knock the defense on their tales kind of guy. He is the closest thing to Earl Campbell that we have seen. If we draft Bush, we will have wasted two number one picks on guys who will be unproductive because of our weak offensive line.

Hugh mistake to use number one on Bush. If we just have to pass on Young, then we need to get picks and fix the whole team. But if we want someone to build around - it's Young. He's a junior, and has a tremendous work ethic - greater than Carr's I believe. He will only get more SuperMan. Pete Carroll said they knew what they had to do, but they just couldn't defend against Young, he was that incredible of a player. UT could defend against Bush.

For those who have only been reading the media and not watching UT all season, you may think that Vince Young is a one hit wonder. But for those of you that have seen him the last year, you know that this guy is the guy who led UT to 20 consecutive victories, two Rose Bowl victories, had the highest passer effeciency rating, led the offense to 50.1 points per game, and had the universal love and belief of his teammates. They all talked of his absolute confidence even when they were 12 points behind, his ice cold looks and his leadership. They said they don't think Vince Young will ever lose another game. Course we know that can't be true - but can you imagine having a leader of the team with that kind of confidence that he imparts? No one needs him more than the Texans.

The Texans owe David Carr a trade to a championship team and right of agreement on any trade.

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Last edited by jshlr4343; 01-07-2006 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 01-07-2006   #2
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If we are not going to fix the O-line then trade Carr and get Young. Young can at least run better and dodge the incoming fire that Carr cannot
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Old 01-07-2006   #3
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No quarterback could dodge the incoming fire. He is sacked sometimes before he even gets to the third step in a 3 step drop.
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Old 01-07-2006   #4
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Very true, his average after the snap to get rid of the ball was 2.8 seconds while the league average was 4.8 seconds (according to the NFL Network on Sirius radio).
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Old 01-07-2006   #5
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You would be surprised how much of a difference 2 seconds can make too. You give a WR 2 more seconds and they can get 15-20 yards farther down the field and create more separation. CB's can't cover a WR forever, eventually they will get open.
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Old 01-07-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jshlr4343
In fact LenDale White is the running back we should take if we want to keep Carr. White is the guy to go to for the TD's, for the red zone yards, for the knock the defense on their tales kind of guy. He is the closest thing to Earl Campbell that we have seen.
jshlr4343
Lendale White was the man who didn't get the two yards on the last 4th down. He more than Bush, benefits from SC good line. Line doesn't get it done, White doesn't either. Lendale gets his TDs in bunches, in games where his line is effective for his style. You are basing his skills on one game. Bush on the other hand, can follow the blocking scheme and point of attack for a play, but he can also change the flow quickly if nothing is there. Lendale is a good player, Earl was a monster.
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Old 01-07-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by texplayer2
Lendale White was the man who didn't get the two yards on the last 4th down. He more than Bush, benefits from SC good line. Line doesn't get it done, White doesn't either. Lendale gets his TDs in bunches, in games where his line is effective for his style. You are basing his skills on one game. Bush on the other hand, can follow the blocking scheme and point of attack for a play, but he can also change the flow quickly if nothing is there. Lendale is a good player, Earl was a monster.
White had 24 TDs for the season against Bush's 16. He's a grinder which is not Bush's style. It would be great to have both, but Bush needs another running back like White to be effective.
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Old 01-07-2006   #8
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Domanick Davis could be his LenDale
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Old 01-07-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by jshlr4343
White had 24 TDs for the season against Bush's 16. He's a grinder which is not Bush's style. It would be great to have both, but Bush needs another running back like White to be effective.
He would have DD. Lendale got his TDs in Bunches. Their were several games this year where Lendale was not very effective. And as for the Rose Bowl, he was walking through holes the size of a truck. The only grinding was in the secondary, and Bush does do that to, mostly in the secondary. And as you pointed out, he gets most of the goal line carries which were numerous.

Last edited by texplayer2; 01-08-2006 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 01-07-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
You would be surprised how much of a difference 2 seconds can make too. You give a WR 2 more seconds and they can get 15-20 yards farther down the field and create more separation. CB's can't cover a WR forever, eventually they will get open.
Very true, which is why I would hope we woudl draft an OT and a OG and start the line working.
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Old 01-08-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texplayer2
He would have DD. Lendale got his TDs in Bunches. Their were several games this year where Lendale was not very effective. And as for the Rose Bowl, he was walking through holes the size of a truck. The only grinding was in the secondary, and Bush does do that to, mostly in the secondary.
I agree. The Texas D was focusing so heavily on Bush that White was able to be effective. White is no Earl Campbell. I understand people in Texas don't have opportunites to watch USC very often so I can understand about the Rose Bowl making people think White was so good. I live in Houston and happened to catch the USC vs Fresno St game. Bush was amazing. I understand he has great blocking, but I never have seen a player make some of those moves. There are plenty of "grinders" like White(TJ Duckett), but not many players like Bush.
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Old 01-08-2006   #12
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Originally Posted by Sutton=08Heisman
I agree. The Texas D was focusing so heavily on Bush that White was able to be effective. White is no Earl Campbell. I understand people in Texas don't have opportunites to watch USC very often so I can understand about the Rose Bowl making people think White was so good. I live in Houston and happened to catch the USC vs Fresno St game. Bush was amazing. I understand he has great blocking, but I never have seen a player make some of those moves. There are plenty of "grinders" like White(TJ Duckett), but not many players like Bush.
I watched all the USC games televised and all the UT games. Young has impressed me all year long. Bush has had some great games, but he's not the franchise player that Young is.
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Old 01-08-2006   #13
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When Sharper was let go earlier last year wasn't much of the talk on this board about the lack of leadership on this team? Is Young not one of the best leaders to come along in a long time? Everyone knocks his throwing ability but look at the progress he's made in 1 year. He did that because he has something to prove. He has the will like no other I've seen to be the best at what he does. He's coming to the NFL to prove something and I just hope he's not proving it twice a year against us.

RB is a great player no doubt, but I think he needs a LenDale White to do well and vice versa. I mean come on. The Texas D virtually shut him down IMO. He had some great runs but he was no where as effective as he was vs. slower defenses.

I'm not trying to hang DC by any means, he's a great player but I hate to miss out on what potentially could be one of the best QBs in the NFL. And all these people calling everyone else bandwagoners need to pipe down. I, and a lot of people like me have watched this guy for 2 years now and only now can we express our opinions without being railroaded by the nay sayers. Ever since the Mizzou game last year he's come into his own and the RB only solidified what a lot of us already knew and made the casual observer take notice, finally. This guy will be something special.

In his career VY has very comparable total yards and ypc to Bush. Does that mean Bush can't compete against NFL LBs. He's also much smaller. And if you say VY doesn't have the moves RB does then I invite you to go back and look at some of his film. He hardly ever takes a solid hit. 90% of the time I've seen him tackled it's been by grabbing his feet. That's because he hardly ever takes a solid shot. Time after time Defenses take bad angles because he is deceptive. That coupled with his shiftiness (sp) makes him a hard target to hit. His size doesn't hurt either.

The whole playing under center can be applied to virtually every QB in college so it's a non-factor in my opinon. That plus the fact that RBs can be found so much easier than a good QB much less a Franchise QB tell me we should take a chance on VY. If he's a bust he's a bust but if he's not then look out NFL.

Personally I don't like RB or ML due to their attitude or the way they carry themselves. VY is down to earth and all about his teamates and family. VY's demeanor, work ethic, ability and heart can't help but be a positive in his career.

I just hope this team doesn't botch up the draft like they've done in previous years, one way or another.

And yes, I am a lurker.

Last edited by hitmantx; 01-08-2006 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 01-08-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texplayer2
He would have DD. Lendale got his TDs in Bunches. Their were several games this year where Lendale was not very effective. And as for the Rose Bowl, he was walking through holes the size of a truck. The only grinding was in the secondary, and Bush does do that to, mostly in the secondary. And as you pointed out, he gets most of the goal line carries which were numerous.
FYI, LenDale White is USC's career leader in TDs after just playing three seasons (beating out the likes of Bush, O.J. Simpson, Marcus Allen, etc.). Bush certainly has more physical talent and probably more potential than LenDale White, but I think both will be very good NFL RBs and LenDale White is probably more NFL-ready to be a big-time RB as of this moment.
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Old 01-08-2006   #15
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Bush was solidly in 2nd in the running for the heisman until his 500+ yard outburst against Fresno. Those throwing out the 'one game or bunches' argument need to understand Bush won the heisman because of the huge output vs. Fresno. That Lendall White had a better running game and was on the field for the biggest play of the season while Bush was on the sidelines speaks VOLUMES.

Leadership
Talent
Character

VY
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Old 01-08-2006   #16
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Bush was solidly in 2nd in the running for the heisman until his 500+ yard outburst against Fresno. Those throwing out the 'one game or bunches' argument need to understand Bush won the heisman because of the huge output vs. Fresno. That Lendall White had a better running game and was on the field for the biggest play of the season while Bush was on the sidelines speaks VOLUMES.

Leadership
Talent
Character

VY
And VY has more than one of these types of games, one of which was against the defending NTs, 2 in this season alone. 2 more that were comparable last year too. He just didn't have ESPN riding his back like RB did.

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Old 01-08-2006   #17
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I'm still undecided on whom I would like to see the Texans take #1. As much as I thought Young's performance in the Rose Bowl was one for the ages, I had to go back and look at his stats for the year. Most of the were outstanding, but look at the Texas A&M game, whose 'D' was ranked 108th in Div I. I hadn't seen his game-by-game stats posted on the board yet, but had seen just about evey other piece of info, some of it 15 times

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Old 01-08-2006   #18
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CC looks to be sold on Carr, so drafting Young doesn't seem likely, unless VY will move to Wr.
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Old 01-08-2006   #19
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FYI, LenDale White is USC's career leader in TDs after just playing three seasons (beating out the likes of Bush, O.J. Simpson, Marcus Allen, etc.). Bush certainly has more physical talent and probably more potential than LenDale White, but I think both will be very good NFL RBs and LenDale White is probably more NFL-ready to be a big-time RB as of this moment.
That is because he is good, and he has had a great line to run behind at SC. I would not dispute he is good. Earl Campbell he is not. Also the game has changed since O.J. & Marcus. I doubt Pete's philosophy of starting freshman was as popular. Also back when they played the Pac-10 as a whole was alot more even talent wise than it is today. UCLA vs. USC was a dog fight, not a couple of high powered offenses. Stats never tell the whole story, they pinpoint a place in time. They don't tell you where someone is going or how much they grow along the way.

Last edited by texplayer2; 01-08-2006 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 01-08-2006   #20
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FYI, LenDale White is USC's career leader in TDs after just playing three seasons (beating out the likes of Bush, O.J. Simpson, Marcus Allen, etc.). Bush certainly has more physical talent and probably more potential than LenDale White, but I think both will be very good NFL RBs and LenDale White is probably more NFL-ready to be a big-time RB as of this moment.
As for Bush, two years ago, he was not ready to be the man. SC had plenty of talent to give him time to learn. He emerged last year as the guy who wanted the ball and the spotlight. He was running back kicks, running TDS. on long carries and catching a few also. During the off season he trained with LT and came out on a mission. This year he played better the more his team needed him. Unfortunately, for him and SC, they didn't use him much with a 12 pt. lead. Lendale has been good for three years and will be good at the next level, Bush has just passed him along the way with upside and potential.
I think both these guys will be good.
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