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Old 01-07-2006   #1
MorKnolle
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Default Mark Schlereth on NFL Live

Despite his comrades talking about the Texans drafting Bush or Young, Mark Schlereth said the core of our team is not the problem, that offensive line and defense are what need to be looked at. He said and I quote "Vince Young and Reggie Bush are not going to help this team right now." He said that on NFL Live tonight about 40 minutes ago and I thought that was nice that one guy on national TV finally acknowledged that.
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Old 01-07-2006   #2
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It is about damn time. O-Line and Defense are our holes. Dunta is our only legitimate playmaker on defense.
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Old 01-07-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorKnolle
Despite his comrades talking about the Texans drafting Bush or Young, Mark Schlereth said the core of our team is not the problem, that offensive line and defense are what need to be looked at. He said and I quote "Vince Young and Reggie Bush are not going to help this team right now." He said that on NFL Live tonight about 40 minutes ago and I thought that was nice that one guy on national TV finally acknowledged that.
Me and a few others have been saying it all season long. The majority of the media right now is saying "The Texans HAVE to draft Bush/Young" which is to me insane. If we were one or two pieces away from being contenders then sure go for it. If Young does declare for this draft, I have a feeling several teams will be trying to trade up as fast as they can racing each other to the top for Bush/Young. We could easily pick up another team's draft plus have the 1st pick in each round and we could easilt load up on some talent.
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Old 01-07-2006   #4
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some people reufse to acknowledge the value of having 10 draft picks. we can rebuild our team in many areas we are lacking in one season, maybe two. but hey, we need a playmaker...
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Old 01-07-2006   #5
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I disagree, this team was never built in the first place so how can you rebuild something that never was? this is what ground zero feels like, the time to build the true Texans future is now, the future should be built around a true franchise QB if your lucky and the timing is right. right now right here!

Sure we could use the trade to build out our draft picks and I love more draft picks don't get me wrong. with defensive & offensive line help, another safety, db, #2 WR & TE there is no reason why the Texans could not be at least a .500 team next season. the year after a playoff team & the year after that as well but a championship takes something special, a natural born leader. Beyond that its about building a family, this board, the team & management have been splinter'ed and divided, the coach and his top assistants fired, Relient all but empty.

Choose your healing process if we can get a kings ransom for trading the rights to draft Vince Young that would be akin to selling ones soul to the devil accepting Vince into the Houston Texans family on the otherhand would be a blessing
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Old 01-07-2006   #6
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I dont see how that is akin to selling your soul.... unless you are one of those people who thinks that not taking a star from a Texas college team is a crime against humanity.

Vince Young isnt going to come onto this team and improve it.. not next year anyway.

What alot of "trade down" people ignore is that we have 4 picks in the top 66 already.. sure we could trade down and get one, maybe even two more picks..

OR, we could take one of the great talents in the draft.. and still have 3 picks in the top 66 left. Its NOT a bad situation. I really dont see why people think that if we dont trade down, we will be incapable of addressing our needs in the draft.
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Old 01-07-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
I dont see how that is akin to selling your soul.... unless you are one of those people who thinks that not taking a star from a Texas college team is a crime against humanity.

Vince Young isnt going to come onto this team and improve it.. not next year anyway.

What alot of "trade down" people ignore is that we have 4 picks in the top 66 already.. sure we could trade down and get one, maybe even two more picks..

OR, we could take one of the great talents in the draft.. and still have 3 picks in the top 66 left. Its NOT a bad situation. I really dont see why people think that if we dont trade down, we will be incapable of addressing our needs in the draft.
I agree it's not a bad situation, and I don't think that we will be incapable off addressing other needs if we do not trade down. I am honestly torn right on which way to lean. I think if we draft Young/Bush we will have another top 5 pick next season and if we trade down we will have a better shot to draft in the 5-15 range next season. I do not watch college ball but I am curious about D'Brick. Some people just don't seem sold on him, others say he has the potential to be the next Ogden/Pace.
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Old 01-07-2006   #8
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Well I look at it like this. We dont need a top ten tackle. Pitts has done very well for us at LT and we can build on that.

If we dont need a tackle in the top 10, then what should we use it on? I wouldnt mind getting a CB, but id prefer to get another playmaker. So I think taking Bush is the way to go at this point. Though I would not be against trading down either, if that is the choice that the coaches made.

The thing about the Oline is. if we get Kubiak, and he brings the Oline coach from Denver... LOOK at this Denver Oline.

LT: Matt Lepsis 6'4" 290lbs. Undrafted free agent. Played TE in college.
LG: Ben Hamilton 6'4" 283lbs. 4th Rounder
C: Tom Nalen 6'3" 286lbs. 7th Rounder
RG: Cooper Carlisle 6'5" 295lbs 4th Rounder
RT: George Foster 6'5" 338lbs. 1st rounder (20th)

See what im seeing? Undersized guys.. their LT was a tight end in college.. the Denver Oline works differently than a regular Oline. They use undersized guys.. and they are able to get talented olinemen that were considered "too small" by other teams..in the late rounds.

It is because of this that I think we can get by using our #33 pick on an olineman.. and maybe a 3rd if someone really good is there.. but we will probably find alot of linemen that are perfect for our new system in the late rounds.


Im really hoping we get Kubiak.
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Old 01-07-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
Well I look at it like this. We dont need a top ten tackle. Pitts has done very well for us at LT and we can build on that.

If we dont need a tackle in the top 10, then what should we use it on? I wouldnt mind getting a CB, but id prefer to get another playmaker. So I think taking Bush is the way to go at this point. Though I would not be against trading down either, if that is the choice that the coaches made.

The thing about the Oline is. if we get Kubiak, and he brings the Oline coach from Denver... LOOK at this Denver Oline.

LT: Matt Lepsis 6'4" 290lbs. Undrafted free agent. Played TE in college.
LG: Ben Hamilton 6'4" 283lbs. 4th Rounder
C: Tom Nalen 6'3" 286lbs. 7th Rounder
RG: Cooper Carlisle 6'5" 295lbs 4th Rounder
RT: George Foster 6'5" 338lbs. 1st rounder (20th)

See what im seeing? Undersized guys.. their LT was a tight end in college.. the Denver Oline works differently than a regular Oline. They use undersized guys.. and they are able to get talented olinemen that were considered "too small" by other teams..in the late rounds.

It is because of this that I think we can get by using our #33 pick on an olineman.. and maybe a 3rd if someone really good is there.. but we will probably find alot of linemen that are perfect for our new system in the late rounds.


Im really hoping we get Kubiak.
I didn't even think about having a new coach, somehow I totally forgot. A lot will depend on our new coach I guess. And I am pulling for Kubiak too, I think most of us here are.
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Old 01-07-2006   #10
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what do you expect a former Offensive Lineman to say anyway...geesh


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
I dont see how that is akin to selling your soul.....
by that I mean Vince Young would be the soul of this team (Texans) as he is the soul of the Texas Longhorns, by trading that away or not selecting him in a sense you are selling the soul of your team, hence your own soul as well (as a football fan).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
unless you are one of those people who thinks that not taking a star from a Texas college team is a crime against humanity.
no but I do feel that Casserly has no concept of the importance of football in the State of Texas and that goes for all schools & its players. with many alums as fans & season ticket holders the paying customer who buys the product does have some say in the matter, financial or otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
Vince Young isnt going to come onto this team and improve it.. not next year anyway.
yeah I could be dead wrong on this one but thats what being a fan is all about, I'm willing to take that chance. are we going 2-14 OR WORSE with Vince Young @ QB instead of David Carr next year? I don't think so. We would see immediate results and impact, yes mistakes but at least back on the road again instead of in a ditch or in the Texans 05-06 season a bottomless pit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
What alot of "trade down" people ignore is that we have 4 picks in the top 66 already.. sure we could trade down and get one, maybe even two more picks..

OR, we could take one of the great talents in the draft.. and still have 3 picks in the top 66 left. Its NOT a bad situation. I really dont see why people think that if we dont trade down, we will be incapable of addressing our needs in the draft.
the rest I agree with
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Old 01-07-2006   #11
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Im a big fan of hometown prospects.. but only when they are needed. Ive wanted Casey Hampton for a long time.

I just view it differently from alot of Vince Young supporters. Yes he is a hometown player.. but the Texans are our hometown team. The success of the Texans as my hometown team is more important to me than having a hometown prospect. I just dont think Vince Young is a need for us, in any way. He is even less necessary than Reggie Bush in my mind. Carr has shown too much promise to call him a flop at this point. I really think you have to give Carr a chance behind an improved line, with a new coaching staff.

But this has all been talked about in a hundred other posts.
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Old 01-07-2006   #12
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Grid besides an uncanny knack for getting back up on his feet every single time he is sacked, hurried or otherwise blown-up what is it that you have seen in David Carr that gives you even a glimmer of hope that he can lead this team to become a Championship NFL Dynasty?

QB is the most important position on a team, generally I'm sure there are some exceptions to this rule but usually the QB's are the leaders and the one player whom the whole team embodies and look to for their success.
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Old 01-07-2006   #13
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Well.. I think of that 1 yard dive to get the win in jacksonville a couple seasons ago. The 20 yard rush when he had the hurt shoulder and had to come into the game.

He has, for the most part, always said the right thing to tough questions.. though he has had a few fopahs.

When given control of the offense he had the highest scoring quarter in our history.

His physical abilities are undeniable.. his arm strength, toughness, rushing ability, and intelligence are all there.

The things that he has shown a weakness in.. specifically his ability to go through his reads, not stare down his WR, and throw the ball away.. are either coachable, or possibly a product of the bad line, or bad coaching staff.

I just dont see the knocks against him. The biggest thing that I see people bringing up is his lack of production, his win-loss ratio, things of that nature.. but all of that is TEAM oriented, its not just on David Carr.

Dont get me wrong.. im not prepared to say that he will be the guy to take us to a championship.. all I can say is that I think he definatly deserves another chance under a new coaching staff, with an improved line. And that I dont think Vince Young is a necessary, or good choice for us.
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Old 01-07-2006   #14
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I guess we can leave it at that but in all honesty I cannot take another year with David Carr dropping back into the pocket, it makes me nervous, bad things happen, I'm shell shocked what can I say

he lacks ideal size in the pocket for one, he is crouched, ready to spring like a Deer in headlights. unable to shake off would be tacklers he runs helter skelter right into the path of a back side assailent only to be grapled down for another devastating loss. his throwing motion is almost sidearm, which combined with his lower body positon causes his passes to be re-directed on a regular basis, not to mention all the abuse sustained to his body. reading defenses, audible calls, going through his progressions, getting the damn ball snapped before he has to use a timeout or cause a delay of game.

OK I'm going to have to stop because this is making me upset like during and after games, but you get my point. there is the David can do better camp if I had better coaching/offensive line (which you seem to be in) and there is the no David is not the answear/franchise QB of the future camp (Myself, Vinny and others) lets give Vince four years and see where we end up then, how about that
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Old 01-07-2006   #15
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We are gonna have to agree to disagree .

On the reading defenses part... when given control of the offense he seemed to read the defense pretty well. ANd about his audibles.. that has been exposed as a coaching problem. And I havent seen him cause THAT many delay of games.. no more than most other QBs.. and that could be a coaching issue too.

Kubiak is quite a QB coach as well.. if we get him as our HC, we may see alot of Carr's quirks get ironed out.. like his throwing motion, and his "posture" in the pocket.
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Old 01-07-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
I disagree, this team was never built in the first place so how can you rebuild something that never was? this is what ground zero feels like, the time to build the true Texans future is now, the future should be built around a true franchise QB if your lucky and the timing is right. right now right here!

We tried building around a franchise QB once already though. David Carr posesses ALL the talent to be that QB. While he may not be the QB to actually lead us down the road, we do not need to repeat the same process.

Why buy that 75" plasma screen when you dont even have cable or a chair to watch it in?

Some things just have to come before the others, like a foundation, like an offensive line.

Vince is quite an athlete, and is less likely to fold when hit, but he provides no immediate solution to this team. I like Vince, but maybe next year.

All of my opinion is subject to change however, based on who we are able to lure in during FA. If we get a Bently, a Charles Rogers, and say a J Peterson/Jon Abraham...then I am A LOT more open to taking Vince. I am still against bush, regardless.
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Old 01-07-2006   #17
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I would think that if Kubiak would be looking for a OL in the first round. He would look at the line and see that we are not built for the system all that well with slow-footed plodders. I would think like in Denver he wants guys that can play a variety of positions and weighs between 295-315 and a C that can move thinking Eslinger or Mangold, both are nasty and considered a bit undersized. I doubt Kubes sees a reason to draft a 45-50M RB or a 55MQB with the first pick. Personally I think he looks at the combine and if Mario Williams proves he is a warrior he gets the pick.
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Old 01-07-2006   #18
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As I have said before, the media needs us to draft Bush or Young more than the Texans need to.
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Old 01-07-2006   #19
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I have seen as much in David Carr that convinces me he is capable of leading this team as I have seen from Vince Young. Carr has had a horrible OLine for the last four years, he's been forced to throw to WRs like Corey Bradford that won't catch a ball rather than having Gaffney and Armstrong out there who may not be as fast but at least they'll catch something, so Carr's only options have been throwing to Andre or dumping down to Domanick. He has had horrible playcalling throughout much of his career, especially this year, he has had no help from the coaching staff in mentoring and improving his skills. He has been sacked a record number of times twice, and yet he's gotten up every time and gone back right at them again, he has as much mental toughness as I've ever seen in a QB. When he runs, he doesn't slide down to protect himself, he'll dive head first in order to get first downs and help his team. He has one of the strongest arms in the league, his delivery isn't not quite conventional, but it's about the same as Brett Favre's and he is the same size as Favre. If you want to see a side-arm throw, look at Vince Young, him being two inches taller tha Carr is completely negated by his throwing motion. Vince is probably faster straight-line speed but Carr is just as quick, he has a much stronger arm, and is at least as accurate as Vince Young. Vince has put together a nice winning streak in college with the arguably the best roster in the nation, David Carr led Fresno State to a 10-3 record his senior year with a much less talented roster, and he put up over 4200 yards and 40 TDs. Carr may not be a very vocal leader, but he leads by example with his toughness and competitiveness. I do not see how Vince Young will be very effective for at least one year with solid playing time, and I don't see how he is supposed to come in here and be an improvement over Carr. I similarly don't see how much of an improvement Reggie Bush is over Domanick Davis, but at least with Bush you can put him on the field with Davis. I don't see the point of paying two RBs a combined $75 million to split time, but at least with Bush you are adding another playmaker that can play at the same time as Davis, so I wouldn't have a problem drafting Bush, although I still don't think that is the best thing for our team. I do not see the point in drafting Vince Young and can say with 100% certainty after hearing from certain people that the Texans will not draft Vince Young anyways.
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Old 01-07-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorKnolle
I have seen as much in David Carr that convinces me he is capable of leading this team as I have seen from Vince Young. Carr has had a horrible OLine for the last four years, he's been forced to throw to WRs like Corey Bradford that won't catch a ball rather than having Gaffney and Armstrong out there who may not be as fast but at least they'll catch something, so Carr's only options have been throwing to Andre or dumping down to Domanick. He has had horrible playcalling throughout much of his career, especially this year, he has had no help from the coaching staff in mentoring and improving his skills. He has been sacked a record number of times twice, and yet he's gotten up every time and gone back right at them again, he has as much mental toughness as I've ever seen in a QB. When he runs, he doesn't slide down to protect himself, he'll dive head first in order to get first downs and help his team. He has one of the strongest arms in the league, his delivery isn't not quite conventional, but it's about the same as Brett Favre's and he is the same size as Favre. If you want to see a side-arm throw, look at Vince Young, him being two inches taller tha Carr is completely negated by his throwing motion. Vince is probably faster straight-line speed but Carr is just as quick, he has a much stronger arm, and is at least as accurate as Vince Young. Vince has put together a nice winning streak in college with the arguably the best roster in the nation, David Carr led Fresno State to a 10-3 record his senior year with a much less talented roster, and he put up over 4200 yards and 40 TDs. Carr may not be a very vocal leader, but he leads by example with his toughness and competitiveness. I do not see how Vince Young will be very effective for at least one year with solid playing time, and I don't see how he is supposed to come in here and be an improvement over Carr. I similarly don't see how much of an improvement Reggie Bush is over Domanick Davis, but at least with Bush you can put him on the field with Davis. I don't see the point of paying two RBs a combined $75 million to split time, but at least with Bush you are adding another playmaker that can play at the same time as Davis, so I wouldn't have a problem drafting Bush, although I still don't think that is the best thing for our team. I do not see the point in drafting Vince Young and can say with 100% certainty after hearing from certain people that the Texans will not draft Vince Young anyways.
I've heard many teams are intrested in Carr if we dont want him...I wonder why hmm? Oh yeah hes a pretty Good QB whos had to deal with the lack of a good Oline and Coaching.


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