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Old 01-06-2006   #1
Dime
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Default My take on the Carr / Young / Bush Debate

First off, let me say this.

Vince can run the ball... so can Carr (maybe not as much as juker as Young, but he does a good job)
Vince has a strong arm... so does Carr
Vince is a good leader... so is Carr.
Vince is a play-maker... sorry folks, but SO IS CARR.

You all have to understand. I really dont want Carr because I think he hasnt improved, however,

The only difference I see between the two is Vince seems to makes better decisions, better reads, and better ball placement. This is big to the effect that he already beats Carr on these as a junior. That being said, Even though I would LOVE to have him, we cannot take Vince Young. Why might you ask.

Sadly, we have all seen what happen to Vick, McNabb, and the like. Running QB's, while great, have been eventually get torpedoed and hurt. Carr has even got torpedoed, but is stout enough to get back up, which doesnt happen often. If they dont have a O-line. Then the chances are greater of them getting it. If we dont invest in a O-Line this year, then even Carr has a good chance of not getting up very often next year.

Running QB's are fun to watch, but arent fun to watch when your paying them 50+ million to sit on the bench hurt because we havent addressed thier protection. By the way for the Bush Mongers.. Bush goes nowhere without holes. If you want to see why Bush did as well has he did. Watch the videos and NOT look at Bush, but at his supporting cast. He is Awesome, but he has alot of help.
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Old 01-06-2006   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dime
First off, let me say this.

Vince can run the ball... so can Carr (maybe not as much as juker as Young, but he does a good job)
Vince has a strong arm... so does Carr
Vince is a good leader... so is Carr.
Vince is a play-maker... sorry folks, but SO IS CARR.

You all have to understand. I really dont want Carr because I think he hasnt improved, however,

The only difference I see between the two is Vince seems to makes better decisions, better reads, and better ball placement. This is big to the effect that he already beats Carr on these as a junior. That being said, Even though I would LOVE to have him, we cannot take Vince Young. Why might you ask.

Sadly, we have all seen what happen to Vick, McNabb, and the like. Running QB's, while great, have been eventually get torpedoed and hurt. Carr has even got torpedoed, but is stout enough to get back up, which doesnt happen often. If they dont have a O-line. Then the chances are greater of them getting it. If we dont invest in a O-Line this year, then even Carr has a good chance of not getting up very often next year.

Running QB's are fun to watch, but arent fun to watch when your paying them 50+ million to sit on the bench hurt because we havent addressed thier protection. By the way for the Bush Mongers.. Bush goes nowhere without holes. If you want to see why Bush did as well has he did. Watch the videos and NOT look at Bush, but at his supporting cast. He is Awesome, but he has alot of help.
Great post, you have a lot of support and I agree 100%.
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Old 01-06-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dime
First off, let me say this.

Vince can run the ball... so can Carr (maybe not as much as juker as Young, but he does a good job)
Vince has a strong arm... so does Carr
Vince is a good leader... so is Carr.
Vince is a play-maker... sorry folks, but SO IS CARR.

You all have to understand. I really dont want Carr because I think he hasnt improved, however,

The only difference I see between the two is Vince seems to makes better decisions, better reads, and better ball placement. This is big to the effect that he already beats Carr on these as a junior. That being said, Even though I would LOVE to have him, we cannot take Vince Young. Why might you ask.

Sadly, we have all seen what happen to Vick, McNabb, and the like. Running QB's, while great, have been eventually get torpedoed and hurt. Carr has even got torpedoed, but is stout enough to get back up, which doesnt happen often. If they dont have a O-line. Then the chances are greater of them getting it. If we dont invest in a O-Line this year, then even Carr has a good chance of not getting up very often next year.

Running QB's are fun to watch, but arent fun to watch when your paying them 50+ million to sit on the bench hurt because we havent addressed thier protection. By the way for the Bush Mongers.. Bush goes nowhere without holes. If you want to see why Bush did as well has he did. Watch the videos and NOT look at Bush, but at his supporting cast. He is Awesome, but he has alot of help.
I would think the difference between Pro and Collage is the deciding factor. Remember that Carr was very good in collage as well....
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Old 01-06-2006   #4
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Agree. When the stock recipe includes emotion, potential cap hell and not addressing your needs you are essentially killing the soup.
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Old 01-06-2006   #5
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Nice post but IMHO you are off on the list of intanglibles. Carr is not a leader and I bet if you took a private poll he would not be the guy they look too for leadership. The same was just said on 790. Vince is a leader and a winner. With all that said I think the smart move is Bush followed by O-lineman in the early to mid rounds.

Last edited by HoustonFrog; 01-06-2006 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 01-06-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog
Nice post but IMHO you are off on the list of intanglible. Carr is not a leader and I bet if you took a private poll he would not be the guy they look too for leadership. The same was just said on 790. Vince is a leader and a winner. With all that said I think the smart move is Bush followed by O-lineman in the early to mid rounds.

I agree with you on the smart move...
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Old 01-06-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog
Nice post but IMHO you are off on the list of intanglible. Carr is not a leader and I bet if you took a private poll he would not be the guy they look too for leadership. The same was just said on 790. Vince is a leader and a winner. With all that said I think the smart move is Bush followed by O-lineman in the early to mid rounds.
i like bush then O-line/TE in 2 out of the 3 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
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Old 01-06-2006   #8
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Drafting Vince Young would be a mistake. Sure he is a dynamic player at the college level, but how many games in the NFL is he going to run for 200 yards, not throw a touchdown and his team puts up 40+ points. He is slower and does not have the arm of Mike Vick, and Vick is not even considered (by many) to be a top tier NFL QB. You look at the top QB's in the league: Manning, Brady, Hasselbeck, Palmer etc. All pocket passers. The mobile quarterback has become an overrated commondity due to the fact that it just looks pretty. There are too many needs on this team to take a gamble on a guy like Young who is nowhere close to being ready to make an impact in the NFL. Quarterbacks thrive in systems, not on their own gifts. I say draft Reggie or trade down to solidify the team as a whole.
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Old 01-06-2006   #9
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I believe your batting 500 . I'm not sure I've seen leadership , in fact I think OLs kill for their QB in games if they believe he can win it for them . Of course if their going to get blamed because their QB refuses to get rid of the ball ( the only think I can think of is he 's saving his QB rating ) then they expect the worse .

How many 4th quarter comebacks does Carr have in 4 years ?
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Old 01-06-2006   #10
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i am sorry, but i have not really even seen any leadership out of carr, especially this past season. this past season all i saw carr do was make those stupid faces and throw his arms in the air. come to think of it carr really wasn't even a playmaker this past season.
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Old 01-06-2006   #11
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Carr played in the WAC and never won anything

Young played in the Big 12 and won it as well as the National Championship
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Old 01-06-2006   #12
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How many good years has Carr had since he entered Fresno State . If I'm not mistaken its ONE .

I think your best QBs come out of power house programs where being OK is not an option . Then you may be ready to lead a NFL team and the pressures that come with it .

ps yes there are exceptions .
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Old 01-06-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texans281
Carr played in the WAC and never won anything

Young played in the Big 12 and won it as well as the National Championship
There are tons of QB's that win the national champship in College and didn't do a thing in the NFL, do you want me to give you names? There are also tons of QB's in the NFL that didn't win "anything" in college.

You need to do a little history and put away the burnt orange glasses for a while.
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Old 01-06-2006   #14
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Elway never went to a bowl game at Stanford (thanks to the band).
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Old 01-06-2006   #15
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During Elways day they only about 6 . I don't think they had corperate sponsers either .
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Old 01-06-2006   #16
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Steve Young should have led his team to the national championships when he was in college, being in the WAC and all.
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Old 01-06-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Agree. When the stock recipe includes emotion, potential cap hell and not addressing your needs you are essentially killing the soup.

Bush and Young are both in positions that we don't need and that we have a lot of cap money already tied up in. So you have to be in the camp of trading down.
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Old 01-06-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey
Bush and Young are both in positions that we don't need and that we have a lot of cap money already tied up in. So you have to be in the camp of trading down.
Absolutley.
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Old 01-06-2006   #19
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Leadership? Guess who said this... "It's not a must win but it is a must play well". You can have that kind of defeatist leadership.

Young would NEVER make a comment like that.
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Old 01-06-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dime
Vince is a good leader... so is Carr.
Vince is a play-maker... sorry folks, but SO IS CARR.
I respectfully disagree with these two points.
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