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Old 01-06-2006   #1
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Default Why Vince should be a no brainer

NFL personell are somewhat split on how great Vince will be in the league, but one thing is for sure. If you draft Vince and he is even just a good, not even great QB, you guarantee yourself an enormous love affair for this team from the city of Houston. Right now this is not a done deal to say the least with the Texans creeping into punchlines on broadcasts. Houston is one of the greatest cities in the country but the fact is as a sports market we are largely front runners. This city rallied around Vince as a high schooler at Madison to a huge degree, with multiple spreads in the Chronicle etc.., and now of course as a Longhorn winning a national championship. After the display he put on in the Rose Bowl even a large part of non UT Texans are probably modest fans of the guy. Inner city Houston sees him as a demi god (as do I), and most Longhorn fans go further than that. The bottom line is that IF Vince carries over to the NFL we are talking about LUV YA (STEEL) BLUE all over again. If we trade down and get Hawk, Furgeson, etc.. we will still be a ways off from contention but will have seriously fading backing from the fans.

And as a secondary sidenote. NFL QB's are about 5 times as valuable as NFL running backs and they last probably twice as long. From a risk reward perspective I think Vince is the obvious choice. If he pans out, he will be a better Mike Vick who energizes a franchise without a personality right now and will do so for 8 + years most likely. If Reggie pans out you have a difference maker at a less important position who won't last near as long and won't endear as many fans. If Casserly pulls off a trade to get Furgeson and a 105th rounder this city will go into absolute hibernation on this team The move is to take Vince and try to hit a homerun for this franchise. There is zero chance with his athletic ability he will be a complete bust, and barring that nobody will blame the Texans for taking a shot at the superstar hometown kid. If he goes somewhere else and flourishes you are looking at a disaster.
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Old 01-06-2006   #2
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I wouldn't say that there is zero chance that he will be a complete bust. Everyone has a chance to be a bust and with his marginal arm strength he could very easily be a bust.
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Old 01-06-2006   #3
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If NFL QBs are 5X as valuable than RBs, why are you already wanting Carr to be replaced?
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Old 01-06-2006   #4
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Originally Posted by Huge
If NFL QBs are 5X as valuable than RBs, why are you already wanting Carr to be replaced?
Because Carr has proven NOTHING in 4 years. Most solid QBs only take one or two years to develop. Look at Carson Palmer and Eli Manning. Both took HUGE steps forward in one season and both have their teams in the playoffs. And I'm sick of people constantly making excuses for Carr. The guy is just NOT that good...
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Old 01-06-2006   #5
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Anyone who thinks Vince Young will be a bust doesn't know what they're talking about. Unless some unforeseen injury occurred, no way he's not successful. He's a man amongs boys in college right now. His passing game is WAY underated because of his exciting running ability. Sure, he won't be rushing as much in the NFL, but he'll make plays happen. What makes Vince Young special is he can make nothing into something. Also, he has the 'It' when the game is on the line. This is what makes champions and legends. This is what seperates VY from Michael Vick.

I don't know about you, but I'm getting a little tired of David Carr's inconsistant play. Sure we have OL problems, but his reads aren't 'championship' material. Without a doubt, I'd take VY over David Carr if the games on the line.
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Old 01-06-2006   #6
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The greatest impact on next year's team will be a new staff. VY may have an impact if he declares and we leverage this against Carr's current contract (renegotiate) and then trading down.

The fans of Houston I hope are more intelligent than only wanting to root for hometown heroes. This is the NFL, not high school.
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Old 01-06-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston Fan
He's a man amongs boys in college right now. His passing game is WAY underated because of his exciting running ability. Sure, he won't be rushing as much in the NFL, but he'll make plays happen.

Key word. College. Vince is a man among boys in college, but he is a boy among men in the NFL at this stage in his development. Vince is still not a great passer. He has improved dramatically, but he is still a few years away from being a good passer. Like all running quarterbacks, he will slow down and run less. Even Vick has slowed down since getting into the league. Has he even taken any snaps under center at Texas? You can't just run shotgun every time in the NFL. Does that mean that he will definetely be a bust? Of course not, but don't annoint him as a god before he hasn't done anything. Quarterback is the hardest position to play in the NFL and Vince will have his work cut out for him once he gets to the next level.
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Old 01-06-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
The fans of Houston I hope are more intelligent than only wanting to root for hometown heroes. This is the NFL, not high school.
You make this sound simple. I'm no UT fan but I'm a big fan of Young and the change that comes with him. If you watch the rose bowl closer you can see how he makes defenses do things they don't like to do. If you look close to at the Rose Bowl he was hitting the open man all night because he reads defense well. He was 30 of 40 and consistantly hit the off-man when USC did decide to get exotic. When you spy you have to take a man from coverage or from the rush. Young totally forced Carrol out of his blitz scheme by burning it over and over. This is one reason Young is so darn tough to defend.....he has proven he is hard to blitz, hard to spy, and hard to defend straight up. If he couldn't find and hit the open WR then he would be Tommie Frazier...but he can. I'd like to see the 6'5 230 pound QB leading my Texans. I'll get over it if it doesn't happen though, because the Texans seem married to Carr in a big way. I can only hope, and let them know how this fan feels about it.
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Old 01-06-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
You make this sound simple. I'm no UT fan but I'm a big fan of Young and the change that comes with him. If you watch the rose bowl closer you can see how he makes defenses do things they don't like to do. If you look close to at the Rose Bowl he was hitting the open man all night because he reads defense well. He was 30 of 40 and consistantly hit the off-man when USC did decide to get exotic. When you spy you have to take a man from coverage or from the rush. Young totally forced Carrol out of his blitz scheme by burning it over and over. This is one reason Young is so darn tough to defend.....he has proven he is hard to blitz, hard to spy, and hard to defend straight up. If he couldn't find and hit the open WR then he would be Tommie Frazier...but he can. I'd like to see the 6'5 230 pound QB leading my Texans. I'll get over it if it doesn't happen though, because the Texans seem married to Carr in a big way. I can only hope, and let them know how this fan feels about it.
Do not get me wrong, I love VY. But I do not see any value in a QB at #1. I also see kinks in his armor, but ones that a competitor, leader and student of the game can fix. Which VY is.

Let me ask you a question, who runs the zone read in the NFL?
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Old 01-06-2006   #10
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how about this for a no-brainer-

http://www.nlscouting.com/Spotlights/youngCarr.htm
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Old 01-06-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Do not get me wrong, I love VY. But I do not see any value in a QB at #1. I also see kinks in his armor, but ones that a competitor, leader and student of the game can fix. Which VY is.

Let me ask you a question, who runs the zone read in the NFL?
Who runs the 3-4? That doesn't stop teams from drafting linebackers who never played the position. QB is a different animal but the position is critical in the NFL. Young is well worth that risk to me.

I don't think Young is a "no-brainer" but I stated a long time ago that I thought he would be an NFL "superstar", and I don't feel much different now. Young has incredible pocket awareness and escapability. He read the blitz every time Carroll threw it at him. He made quick decisions and made them pay for not playing perfect football by hammering their contain Wednesday night....I'm pushed over the top and think that we are making a grave mistake by hanging on to Carr over someone who I think will be much better than Michael Vick in the NFL. Vick was good enough to take his flawed game to the NFC title games early in his career....I see Young taking us there too.
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Old 01-06-2006   #12
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To me, McNair HAS to draft VY.

If he does draft Young, and he IS a complete bust, then McNair will be forgiven for having faith in hometown talent. The city (if not the nation) already loves VY, and won't be as hard on him as Carr. The franchise is young and will overcome.

If he does not draft Yound, and he is NOT a bust, McNair will never be forgiven. I still think Bud Adams left in part because of the public backlash from firing Bum Phillips. McNair can not have the public turn on him as the owner 5 or 6 years into the franchise's existance.

It is as simple as that. If the public wants VY, McNair has to take him.
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Old 01-06-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Who runs the 3-4? That doesn't stop teams from drafting linebackers who never played the position. QB is a different animal but the position is critical in the NFL. Young is well worth that risk to me.

I don't think Young is a "no-brainer" but I stated a long time ago that I thought he would be an NFL "superstar", and I don't feel much different now. Young has incredible pocket awareness and escapability. He read the blitz every time Carroll threw it at him. He made quick decisions and made them pay for not playing perfect football by hammering their contain Wednesday night....I'm pushed over the top and think that we are making a grave mistake by hanging on to Carr over someone who I think will be much better than Michael Vick in the NFL. Vick was good enough to take his flawed game to the NFC title games early in his career....I see Young taking us there too.
We are seeing the same things and share the passion for VY. We just disagree on what we would like to see our Texans do.
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Old 01-06-2006   #14
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I don't think that the city is going to turn on McNair if he doesn't pick Vince Young. This city like every other city will get over it if he puts a winning team on the field.

McNair is going to do what is best for the team, not the fans. And if Kubiak or whoever the coach is feels that they do not need Vince Young and that David Carr can be that franchise quarterback with the right protection, coaching, and weapons around him then they are going to pass on Vince Young.
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Old 01-06-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
That is an interesting idea. We could take an O-lineman and TE with our two 2nd's and still have two 3rd's to work on re-tooling our D.
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Old 01-06-2006   #16
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Beerlover wow. A letter written by an obvious Raider fan. Dont you think the Raiders would love to get Carr. He is going into his 5th year, has consistently played well on a crap team (3500+ yds and 300rushing) and for the past two years has shown he can throw the deep ball, and throw more touchdowns than interceptions. Just to let you know this is the exact reason why we will keep Carr and VY can spread his man juice around Austin for another year.
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Old 01-06-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown34s
It is as simple as that. If the public wants VY, McNair has to take him.
That is the way to NOT run a professional franchise. You should NEVER let the fans make the pick for your team.
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Old 01-06-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
McNair is going to do what is best for the team, not the fans.
Actually you are somewhat wrong.

For example:
This season the Texans' staff decided to leave the roof open against the steelers on a super hot day to try and get a advantage since the steelers were playing in all black.

Texans still lost and the fans were miserably hot.

McNair announced that "fan comfort" would be the deciding factor regarding the roof, not whether or not the Texans could get a competitive advantage.
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Old 01-06-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
Actually you are somewhat wrong.

For example:
This season the Texans' staff decided to leave the roof open against the steelers on a super hot day to try and get a advantage since the steelers were playing in all black.

Texans still lost and the fans were miserably hot.

McNair announced that "fan comfort" would be the deciding factor regarding the roof, not whether or not the Texans could get a competitive advantage.
This is apples and oranges compared to player selection.
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Old 01-06-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
Actually you are somewhat wrong.

For example:
This season the Texans' staff decided to leave the roof open against the steelers on a super hot day to try and get a advantage since the steelers were playing in all black.

Texans still lost and the fans were miserably hot.

McNair announced that "fan comfort" would be the deciding factor regarding the roof, not whether or not the Texans could get a competitive advantage.

then that would make him somewhat right? or did I miss something?
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