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Old 01-06-2006   #1
HeartofHouston
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Default Still Not Sold On V. Young.. and Bush still the Man..

its alot of people around the board that hop from bandwagon to bandwagon... one minute it's Draft Bush... then the next minute it's draft Young.. The sad part is that people see Bush's name and they expect to see a TD every time that he touches the ball but that's not the case.. while he glides like superman, runs like superman and jukes like superman.. he IS NOT Superman!

But what Bush is, is an amazing running back, now some people are gonna sit here and say, well he hasnt played against any good defenses till Texas and look at what Texas did to him.. well let's look at the stats...

Reggie Bush
13 Rushes 82 Yards 6.3 Avg 1TD 6Rec 95Yards 15.8avg

I know some of you are saying...
(picks his nose) "Only 82 Yards Rushing durrrhhh what's up with that??"


Flag on the play.. too many people being stupid on the board..

Well take your finger outta your nose and listen to this.. I'll say a good average for a HB in college is lets say.. 5.0 yards per carry.. (and that's being generous).. Reggie Bush still had a better average than probably every RB in the nation. LenDale White was murdering Texas's Defense and Bush still had a better ypc than him too..

And people wanna talk about how sick Texas's defense is.. and how well they did again Bush well let's pull up some more stats shall we..

vs Oregon, Washington St and Cal..
Reggie Bush's avg yards per carry was less than it was at Texas.. so I guess that means that all those teams have a better defense than Texas. Cal held Bush to only 82 yards, at 4.8 a carry with no TDs.. so they performed wayyyy better than Texas's defense..

I'm saying all that to say this, people are so built on the next hot or the next popular thing that they dont realize what's right in their face.. first it's lienart, then it's bush then it's the young bandwagon.. it's all about what's hot and it doesnt make any sense to me cause bush still had a very very good day (minus that absolutley mind-blowingly-dumb lateral) by my standards. 6.3 yards a carry and almost 100 receiving on a defense that "shut" him down.. i dont think so.. Bush still had a solid performance and I would still take Bush over Young anyday.. and when i continue on you will see why..

Now on to Young.. it seems to be a lotta followers of young all of a sudden and i'm not surprised about that. now dont get me wrong i like they way he played in the championship game 260+ passing and 200+ rushing, no Ints.. he had one of those games that you would have to be lucky to even dream about.

But if you stop and look at it.. USC defense is absolutely trash-a-rific.. they give up.. 227 passing yrds per game... schools like.. Nothern Illinios, Florida International, Cincy, UAB, Wyoming and Indiana give up less yards than USC in the air and rushing defense is a lil better but they are not even top 25 rushing defense. So all in all he's not really playing against a good defense a all.. so to have the day that he had.. it shouldnt have even been a problem at all. Beside Darnell Bing name 1 guy from USC defense that could be taken on day 1.. Frostee Rucker is the closet they got and he's a 4th or 5th rounder at best.

Oh and by the way that option-zone-read that Mack Brown has been babying Vince Young with to protect him all these years.. guess what?? they dont do that crap in the Big league.. cause DEs like Rucker, Peppers, Freeney, Abrahamn, Rice, J. Taylor, Strahan and Ogunleye dont play that mess they will put you to sleep if they get a clean shot at you..

So that little shotgun-zone-read-option crap, that's made Vince Young the "Winner" that he is, that Mack Brown calls 70% of the time.. is gonna be out of the question on the next level then what happens next Young??

To be perfectly honest.. he's not that quick.. Mike Vick is quicker than Young, and with Young's long lanky legs it's not gonna be the pansies from USC's defense grabbing air, it's gonna be Ray Lewis, and Vilma, Peterson, Zach Thomas, Shawn Merriman, Keith Bullock, Andra Davis and Derrick Brooks taking shots at Vince's fraile little body and he's gonna mess around and get his lil legs broke trying to perform one of those weak juke moves that got him pass that pop warner USC defense.

So all you bandwagon hopers that went from "DRAFT THE PREZ" To.. "DRAFT THE IN-VINCE-IBLE" I'll be sitting back with my Bush jersey on watching him run all over the NFL field while you Young fans'll be seeing Young carried on a stretcher because Brian Urlacher or Donovan Darious was spying on Young and put a pop on him that folded him like laundry.

cause without his zone-read-option.. Young runs for 8.4 yrds less and when he drops back his accuracy drops from a beautiful 76% to a very ugly 53%.. so good luck with that stuff in the NFL Vince.. Oh and when you get to the NFL Tell Dwight Freeney and John Abraham I said hello when you run into em...

ROFLMAO..

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Old 01-06-2006   #2
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very nice post... id hug you if we met in person.

Im guilty of some bandwagoning.. but its more bandwagon hogging than jumping ... I dont leave my current bandwagon..I just slip a leg over into the other bandwagon and see if I like it feels like a smoother ride in that one hehe.

After the game.. Vince impressed me enough to consider if we should use the 1st pick on him.. didnt last long though because, well.. for all the reasons you went over.. plus Carr's unused potential.

So then I looked at Reggies performance in the game and I thought to myself "eh.. maybe I dont want to ride in a bandwagon".. so I jumped off to the Trade down scenario and gave that a thought for a while.

In the end.. a friend of mine set me straight about Bush. See, what bothered me about him was his constant attempts to get around the corner and hit the sideline.. that doesnt work in the NFL. Not to mention, Bush just really isnt that fast when he isnt running north and south, but when he IS running north and south he is FAST. A friend of mine reminded me that Bush is still a college player, and will refine his running style in the NFL.. and he had me imagine Bush getting the Ball and going straight for the hole.... and it really drove it home for me. How useful his speed could be once he learns how an NFL back does things... and then there is his ability to catch the ball and pick up big yardage.

So.. im chasing that Bush bandwagon again.. but now, im a little more wary of it.. I still think that the right deal on a trade down could be a good move for us.



But yah.. im a bandwagoner when it comes to stuff like this. I try and remain open minded and more often than not, that leads to me having my opinion swayed by whoever makes the best point .. in the end all I want is what is best for the team though, and I know that, for us, Vince Young isnt what is best for the team. Hometown prospect or not.

Anyway.. thanks for the great post.
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Old 01-06-2006   #3
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youre right it did upset with with his constant attempts to go straight for the side line on plays design to run up the middle but as you stated.. imagine what he could do if you ust takes it north and south into the hole..

but NFL RB mentality cant completely be achieved by a junior in college i say with a HC like Gary Kubiak and his proven track record of 1000 yard rushers he can get Bush pointed in the right direction..
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Old 01-06-2006   #4
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I am the same as you. I am not sold on Vince yet either. I hope he stays another year in school and gets the education first. Will make things allot easier for us....
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Old 01-06-2006   #5
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I'm still not sold on either Mr Young or Mr Bush. I'd still be sold on trading down though and jumping back aboard that bandwagon after the Rose Bowl (not that I ever really left it...and as small as it appears to be around here).

Are Mr Young and Mr Bush both talented? Hell Yeah they are. Are there other talented people in the draft list? Hell Yeah there will be. Therefore I'll stick with more talent for the same amount of cash (though if Mr Young or Mr Bush are drafted, I'll live with it... as long as it brings the results)...
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Old 01-06-2006   #6
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agreed, not sold on vince. he is NOT able to play under center and too many of his plays are designed in the spread offense (alex smith anyone?) which the NFL rarely runs. you can't play shotgun every down in the nfl and you can have fake handoffs. the game will catch up to vince.
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Old 01-06-2006   #7
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thank you very much.. I'm glad that there are some people who can see pass the VY hype and open their eyes..
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Old 01-06-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofHouston
thank you very much.. I'm glad that there are some people who can see pass the VY hype and open their eyes..
There are plenty on this board that are above the Young and Bush hype.
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Old 01-06-2006   #9
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I'm up in the air, to be honest. I see valid points to be made on with every angle.

My concern is our o-line. The 2005 2-14 Texans offense would make Bush or Young look like the NFL rookies that they'll be. NOBODY would find much success behind the pathetic unit we saw last season.

So if a team makes an offer we can't refuse for our no. 1 pick, we have to consider it. And there will be some offers, no doubt about it.

With regards to the Young vs. Bush debate: I see major rebuilding if we get Young. No matter how good of a college player he is/was, and regardless of his potential, he'll still be a rookie in the NFL. And being that QB is the most important position on offense, give the rebuild a good 2-3 years before finding any measure of success.

If you were adding Young to an already established offense, things would be different. But we're talking about an o-line that has given up well over 200+ sacks in a mere 4 seasons. That's just pathetic.

I think Bush is more of a quick fix to get us running. He adds a dimension to help AJ get free, another playmaker that could impact in his first year. Of course, success hinges on improving our o-line. But given that fact, and assuming it is addressed accordingly, Bush could add some wrinkles by taking the assumed double-team off of AJ. Let him platoon HB with DD, and mix him as a slot receiver, and we could be putting up some consistent points as soon as the 2006 season.
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Old 01-06-2006   #10
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I agree about the hype machine but I dont see how they can trade the first pick. The team needs a player like Reggie Bush to put people in the seats and attract more players to sign with our team for less than a kings ransom. It would help DD and Dre at the same time and give us another deep threat at WR and a spell back.
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Old 01-06-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBull17
I agree about the hype machine but I dont see how they can trade the first pick. The team needs a player like Reggie Bush to put people in the seats and attract more players to sign with our team for less than a kings ransom. It would help DD and Dre at the same time and give us another deep threat at WR and a spell back.
The Houston media needs Bush or Young, the team does not.
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Old 01-06-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofHouston
its alot of people around the board that hop from bandwagon to bandwagon... one minute it's Draft Bush... then the next minute it's draft Young.. The sad part is that people see Bush's name and they expect to see a TD every time that he touches the ball but that's not the case.. while he glides like superman, runs like superman and jukes like superman.. he IS NOT Superman!

But what Bush is, is an amazing running back, now some people are gonna sit here and say, well he hasnt played against any good defenses till Texas and look at what Texas did to him.. well let's look at the stats...

Reggie Bush
13 Rushes 82 Yards 6.3 Avg 1TD 6Rec 95Yards 15.8avg

I know some of you are saying...
(picks his nose) "Only 82 Yards Rushing durrrhhh what's up with that??"


Flag on the play.. too many people being stupid on the board..

Well take your finger outta your nose and listen to this.. I'll say a good average for a HB in college is lets say.. 5.0 yards per carry.. (and that's being generous).. Reggie Bush still had a better average than probably every RB in the nation. LenDale White was murdering Texas's Defense and Bush still had a better ypc than him too..

And people wanna talk about how sick Texas's defense is.. and how well they did again Bush well let's pull up some more stats shall we..

vs Oregon, Washington St and Cal..
Reggie Bush's avg yards per carry was less than it was at Texas.. so I guess that means that all those teams have a better defense than Texas. Cal held Bush to only 82 yards, at 4.8 a carry with no TDs.. so they performed wayyyy better than Texas's defense..

I'm saying all that to say this, people are so built on the next hot or the next popular thing that they dont realize what's right in their face.. first it's lienart, then it's bush then it's the young bandwagon.. it's all about what's hot and it doesnt make any sense to me cause bush still had a very very good day (minus that absolutley mind-blowingly-dumb lateral) by my standards. 6.3 yards a carry and almost 100 receiving on a defense that "shut" him down.. i dont think so.. Bush still had a solid performance and I would still take Bush over Young anyday.. and when i continue on you will see why..

Now on to Young.. it seems to be a lotta followers of young all of a sudden and i'm not surprised about that. now dont get me wrong i like they way he played in the championship game 260+ passing and 200+ rushing, no Ints.. he had one of those games that you would have to be lucky to even dream about.

But if you stop and look at it.. USC defense is absolutely trash-a-rific.. they give up.. 227 passing yrds per game... schools like.. Nothern Illinios, Florida International, Cincy, UAB, Wyoming and Indiana give up less yards than USC in the air and rushing defense is a lil better but they are not even top 25 rushing defense. So all in all he's not really playing against a good defense a all.. so to have the day that he had.. it shouldnt have even been a problem at all. Beside Darnell Bing name 1 guy from USC defense that could be taken on day 1.. Frostee Rucker is the closet they got and he's a 4th or 5th rounder at best.

Oh and by the way that option-zone-read that Mack Brown has been babying Vince Young with to protect him all these years.. guess what?? they dont do that crap in the Big league.. cause DEs like Rucker, Peppers, Freeney, Abrahamn, Rice, J. Taylor, Strahan and Ogunleye dont play that mess they will put you to sleep if they get a clean shot at you..

So that little shotgun-zone-read-option crap, that's made Vince Young the "Winner" that he is, that Mack Brown calls 70% of the time.. is gonna be out of the question on the next level then what happens next Young??

To be perfectly honest.. he's not that quick.. Mike Vick is quicker than Young, and with Young's long lanky legs it's not gonna be the pansies from USC's defense grabbing air, it's gonna be Ray Lewis, and Vilma, Peterson, Zach Thomas, Shawn Merriman, Keith Bullock, Andra Davis and Derrick Brooks taking shots at Vince's fraile little body and he's gonna mess around and get his lil legs broke trying to perform one of those weak juke moves that got him pass that pop warner USC defense.

So all you bandwagon hopers that went from "DRAFT THE PREZ" To.. "DRAFT THE IN-VINCE-IBLE" I'll be sitting back with my Bush jersey on watching him run all over the NFL field while you Young fans'll be seeing Young carried on a stretcher because Brian Urlacher or Donovan Darious was spying on Young and put a pop on him that folded him like laundry.

cause without his zone-read-option.. Young runs for 8.4 yrds less and when he drops back his accuracy drops from a beautiful 76% to a very ugly 53%.. so good luck with that stuff in the NFL Vince.. Oh and when you get to the NFL Tell Dwight Freeney and John Abraham I said hello when you run into em...

ROFLMAO..

You spent all that time on a lame *** post like that?
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Old 01-07-2006   #13
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Love Young Draft Bush 06'
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Old 01-07-2006   #14
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Nice post HoH. As much as I love the Longhorns and Young, I don't think he is the answer for the Texans.
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Old 01-07-2006   #15
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Thank You RTP..

Young is a Awesome College QB but i'll just leave it at that..
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Old 01-07-2006   #16
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i think matt leinart and jay cutler are both better nfl qb's than young.
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Old 01-07-2006   #17
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thank you and you could prolly throw.. omar jacobs and drew olson in that group if you ask me..
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Old 01-08-2006   #18
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Amazing. I don't see where all this spell doom and gloom on VY comes from.
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Old 01-08-2006   #19
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Quote:
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Amazing. I don't see where all this spell doom and gloom on VY comes from.
the fact that he has close to ZERO experience in offenses that are run in the NFL. NEWS FLASH: NFL QB's play under center. VY doesn't. he's in shot gun 90% of the time if not more. NFL qb's go into shotgun NORMALLY on 3rd and long or 4th and long, which, get this, isn't all the time.
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Old 01-08-2006   #20
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Bush has a good average because of 1 or 2 HUGE plays during a game. He gets those big plays against sorry college defensive schemes. His big play game will not translate into anything in the NFL. His avg will be less than 3 yds/carry. Watch it. It's just too bad I'll have to watch it with my home team. Bush is so overrated it's almost funny. He is going to alienate the only good players we have. Our running game is actually decent, even behind an awful O-Line. Our return game is great. Where will Bush fit in? Who will take a back seat to watch him fail? If speed were all that mattered in the NFL, we wouldn't have the first pick!
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