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Old 01-05-2006   #1
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Default Post Game Rose Bowl Thoughts

I'll start a new thread so the previous one with 400+ posts and constant updates throughout the game can be retired and we can concentrate on post game thoughts. That said, here are my thoughts on the game:

1) Texas did play a better game and deserved to win. I thought UT outcoached USC, which was surprising to me. For much of the game USC's offense was very predictable and/or they ran too complex of a scheme, much like the Texans did this year, while UT simplified their offense nicely and game Vince a bunch of short throws to move the ball and get him in rhythm, and USC refused to keep someone back in a spy on Vince Young, so Mack kept giving him a chance to run the ball.
2) The game had a whole lot of really bad tackling on both sides of the ball. Many defenders took bad pursuit angles, gave up containment, and tried to recover by makind diving arm tackles all game long that didn't work.
3) Vince Young impressed me. I thought he showed a lot of poise and pretty good recognition of where to throw the ball and when to run. That said, I still would not draft him this year (if he comes out which he said he wasn't, but now that he's won the championship he might change his mind). He still doesn't have a real good arm, and he didn't get away with the long, lofted passes that his big WRs had managed to catch against lesser competition, and I think he will need to learn to not run so straight up and protect himself a little better or he could get killed in the NFL, but overall he surprised me tonight.
4) Matt Leinart also impressed me. Coming into the game, I expected if anyone on USC would have a breakout game it would be Leinart, and he played a nice game. Their playcalling got him out of rhythm a little in the late first half, but for the most part I think he handled the offense well, displayed pretty good awareness, and he kept the team together early on when UT made its early run. He isn't very mobile and doesn't have a very strong arm, but I thought he showed a lot of maturity and he should be a good NFL QB and in my mind he increased his draft stock tonight. That said I wouldn't draft him either, but it could increase trade values if a team wants to move up to #1 to grab him in front of the Saints.
5) Reggie Bush was not very impressive at all. He is obviously fast, but he constantly wanted to run outside, and UT's defense prevented him from accomplishing much at all doing this, and that's what NFL defenses will do to. The only time he looked to go up the middle was on cutbacks after his OLine sealed it off with excellent blocks and gave him a cutback lane. He also did not look very good in the kick return game, they gave him some pretty clean kicks but he didn't seem to look to make much happen and let the blocking develop. I'm not saying he isn't a phenomenal athlete, but tonight reinforced my opinion that he is not going to help this team very much at all if we were to bring him in, and whoever said he was as fast as Jerome Mathis needs to rethink that.
6) LenDale White was impressive. It wasn't just the fact that he picked up his 3 TDs in the redzone, but he looked strong and confident in his running all night long, and picked up a lot of tough yards in the middle of the field and made several successful second efforts to pick up yards. I think he runs a lot like Domanick Davis, or a little poorer version of Larry Johnson from the Chiefs.
7) Amidst a game full of poor defense, I really liked Michael Huff and Michael Griffin, UT's two safeties. Griffin has a year left and with his injury he may stay, but I liked both of these guys. They are both very athletic for a S and were both in on almost every play. Huff made several good tackles when most other people on both defenses were not making them, and he definitely has the speed to cover people. I really hope he falls to the 2nd round for us, or if we trade down from #1 that we could use our additional 2nd rounders to trade back into the mid-late 1st to get Huff. I think Griffin will be a solid S too. I wasn't real impressed with Darnell Bing, he looked pretty solid and athletic, but no where near the talent of Huff from what I saw tonight.
8) UT's offensive line was great all night. They propelled the running game and gave Vince time in the pocket on passing plays, and they opened up running lanes for Vince to scramble out of the pocket. USC's offensive line was pretty good too but not as good as UT's.
9) Dwayne Jarrett and Steve Smith looked pretty nice, especially Jarrett. Jarrett is just a sophomore, but Smith is a junior and could come out if he wants. Jarrett is a nice, big target like Mike Williams, but if anything I think he's faster, and Smith is a smaller WR that is more athletic. Both looked pretty good throughout the game.
10) Both TEs were pretty good. David Thomas had many catches throughout the game, and some were pretty nice too. Byrd looked pretty good but didn't have as big of a game. I still don't want to draft a TE this year as I think we have bigger issues to look at in the first three rounds and doubt we can get an upgrade later in the draft, maybe look for a free agent, but I think Rivers can be a decent TE and I say give Joppru one more chance for the last year of his contract.

Well, it's late and I'll leave it at that for now. Any comments and opinions to add?
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Old 01-05-2006   #2
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My thoughts? It's fine for everyone to post their thoughts on who did what and who should've played better but the lack of intelligence that is showing on other threads is alarming.

How you can determine who Houston should draft or NOT draft (post Rose Bowl - "Don't draft Bush") is beyond me. Now Bush sucks yet he won the Heisman Trophy. Cough cough...OMG....

Yeah, Montana never had a bad game...let alone Marino, Rice, O.J., Franco Harris, or whichever incredible player you want to name.

You guys are scaring me. Does anyone have their wits about them still?
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Old 01-05-2006   #3
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Originally Posted by NWTexan Fan
My thoughts? It's fine for everyone to post their thoughts on who did what and who should've played better but the lack of intelligence that is showing on other threads is alarming.

How you can determine who Houston should draft or NOT draft (post Rose Bowl - "Don't draft Bush") is beyond me. Now Bush sucks yet he won the Heisman Trophy. Cough cough...OMG....

Yeah, Montana never had a bad game...let alone Marino, Rice, O.J., Franco Harris, or whichever incredible player you want to name.

You guys are scaring me. Does anyone have their wits about them still?

i've been saying the same thing i was saying since pre-rose bowl...read my sig, i just got vindicated
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Old 01-05-2006   #4
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Originally Posted by swtbound07
i've been saying the same thing i was saying since pre-rose bowl...read my sig, i just got vindicated
I don't think he'll be a bust. But I now have serious doubt he can carry a team anymore. Do you want that as your #1 pick? I don't.
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Old 01-05-2006   #5
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Post game thoughts: DRAFT VINCE YOUNG if he declares.
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Old 01-05-2006   #6
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Post game thoughts: DRAFT VINCE YOUNG if he declares.

Post game thoughts: I never cease to be astounded by how fast this board can turn.
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Old 01-05-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by NWTexan Fan
My thoughts? It's fine for everyone to post their thoughts on who did what and who should've played better but the lack of intelligence that is showing on other threads is alarming.

How you can determine who Houston should draft or NOT draft (post Rose Bowl - "Don't draft Bush") is beyond me. Now Bush sucks yet he won the Heisman Trophy. Cough cough...OMG....

Yeah, Montana never had a bad game...let alone Marino, Rice, O.J., Franco Harris, or whichever incredible player you want to name.

You guys are scaring me. Does anyone have their wits about them still?
Ty Detmer won the heisman, too. I'm not putting Detmer in Bush's class as a talent. The Heisman is a popular vote award. Tell me the same three finalist go to NY for a do over for the "Heisman", you think Bush would still win?
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Old 01-05-2006   #8
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Post game thoughts: I never cease to be astounded by how fast this board can turn.
Very true Herv. Bush supporters become Bush bashers, and Young bashers become Young supporters. I guess it's because most people prefer to say "I told you so" , and what better way to do that than to be on both sides of the fence. After a week or so people tend to go back to their original positions.
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Old 01-05-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by texasguy346
Very true Herv. Bush supporters become Bush bashers, and Young bashers become Young supporters. I guess it's because most people prefer to say "I told you so" , and what better way to do that than to be on both sides of the fence. After a week or so people tend to go back to their original positions.
i will say that is true for some, but i would like to think that my post history and signature speak for itself...i do feel somewhat vindicated after taking a very unpopular postion that other people are starting to come to my side
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Old 01-05-2006   #10
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Reggie Bush flies and shoots steel blue-battle red eye lasers. He also carries a broadsword. I think my position is documented.

It's hard not to want VY on the Texans team. He had a great game and he's from Houston. However, while messing around with my madden franchise I think I've come to a conclusion - The fact is, this is the first "winning" feeling that Houston has had in a long time. Sure, the Astros made it to the World Series but being swept has a pretty large degree of letdown. We all know of course our Texans woes of the past few seasons, and the Rockets have had their share of choking. Then comes along a team that actually wins it all with a player from our home city and we feel represented by this, and feel like if we can just find a way to get this local player and keep him from any other team, we can repeat that success with our very own Houston Texans.

I for one would not mind having Young, as Carr isn't doing it for me at all, but in a couple days I think a lot of peoples emotions will fade a little and logic will take back over.----------Scratch this. Logic will never reign again until after the draft, when the stage of rioting takes its place. I also remembered that this board rarely uses logic to begin with so a "return to it", as a principle, is not possible.

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Old 01-05-2006   #11
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Originally Posted by ledzeppelin269
Then comes along a team that actually wins it all with a player from our home city and we feel represented by this, and feel like if we can just find a way to get this local player and keep him from any other team, we can repeat that success with our very own Houston Texans.

I for one would not mind having Young, as Carr isn't doing it for me at all, but
I think you got this right so far, but you're not factoring in the possibility that Vince Young is the real deal, and that he could become, for the Texans, what Earl was for the Oilers back in the day. Let's imagine for a moment that VY is a special player in that way, let's look at his performance for the last three years, before that if you want to go back to HS as everybody does with Bush, and let's say he's the guy that CAN carry a franchise. How do you not take him when you're this sad sack franchise we got? I mean, even if you think, as some do, that Carr's good, and that the problem has been pretty much limited to the coaching, how do you pass up a kid who kind of looks like magic, looks like he just might turn out to be the Michael Jordan of football? I mean, Carr's not gonna win this franchise any place in history, so losing him is not anything to worry about, especially if you get the upside that VY seems to have. Add to that that you don't necessarily need a hero next year at QB, a solid vet/pro would do, a Kitna would do nicely, for example, and be a lot cheaper than Carr, and you could give VY a year to learn the pro game, and you haven't spent a lot more money than you're spending on Carr, and you've got a future that MIGHT JUST BE a HOF new breed of QB taking over your team. I don't see how you pass on him.
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Old 01-05-2006   #12
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Default Thanks for your thoughtful post:

Here's a few of mine thoughts:

1. If VY doesn't come out, then Mack Brown is the ultimate witch. Watching him during Sportscenter afterward when they mentioned the Houston first pick thing, boy howdy, it looked like he wanted to declare. He has nothing left to prove in college. So he dint get the Heisman, big deal, this year will be remembered as the one where VY shoulda got it. All you have to do is see the post game interview of Lienhart to see what sort of disappointment can come from trying to live the dream again. (Lienhart looked good, BTW--not that I would particularly want him).

As much as I dint want VY to come out before this game, I sure do want him to come out now, but only if we draft him.

The Texans could be the most popular team in freaking Texas. I know that is some hyperbole, but boy howdy, this would be the best chance of that happening, barring the owner of the Cryboys starting to cross-dress or something, following his pent up inclinations.

2. I've loved VY forever, but didn't think there was any sellable way we could get him with the first pick. Sellable meaning, sell it to our management and our fan base. Basically, the Rose Bowl, the way it came out, was about the only way that VY could sell himself as the #1 pick.

3. He is a Houston guy and would love to be here. He doesn't wear some Cali area code on his eye blacks. He gave Houston a shoutout after the game.

4. If Tennessee freakin gets him I will have to kill myself, or at least cause serious maiming and teeth gnashing. I will die.

5. Bush put up some nice numbers, numbers that would have likely been better had he not made that dumb lateral decision. I still wonder about how his game translates to the speed of the NFL. I know it is one game, but so was Fresno State--and NFL guys are faster than the guys at Fresno State that dint have an answer for him on the outside. Bush's sideline TD was pretty fine.

6. From a cap perspective, and as much as I like Carr, I think it makes more sense for us to not pay his bonus, get VY, and not be spending so much in the RB part of our team with the contracts of DD and Bush. It would be a bold move for our team, one directly on the shoulders of VY, but I'd be willing to be in the seats to watch the development of VY.

7. VY is the only guy in the draft with the marketing ability that Bush has. Lienhart ain't gonna produce that much ticket excitement.

8. The #1 pick in this draft has gotten a lot more interesting. Having to make a choice on Carr's bonus though kinda makes it harder to disguise our intentions if that is what we intend to do.

9. VY is like a freaking video game. I must say that everytime he has the ball, I hear the music from the movie, The Matrix, in my head. I think it is from the Chemical Brothers.

10. 10!!!!!! 10!!!!!! We must get 10!!!!!!! I have done drunk the burnt orange koolaid and it sure tastes sweet!!!!!
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Old 01-05-2006   #13
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Default Just for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Post game thoughts: I never cease to be astounded by how fast this board can turn.
This is where I am....

I have always wanted to get VY. I just thought that there was no way to sell that as a legitimate first pick. Sell it to our management and fans.

So, I saw the writing on the wall, saw the Bush manlove, the talk about Justice's best friend and tried to just accept what l thought was going to be the inevitable.

But now the inevitable doesn't seem so inevitable.

Oh my.
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Old 01-05-2006   #14
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Nothing really surprised me last night. Vince had been doing stuff like that all year, so I wasn't at all shocked when he took the ball down the field for the winning score.

Bush had a fine game considering he got little playing time. That run from 30 or so yards out was pretty impressive, and as for the failed lateral, well, Young did the same thing only his guy was paying attention and caught it. Regardless, neither play was a game-changing play, unlike the failed 4th down conversion late in the game which all but sealed a Texas victory. Somehow I knew Young would make them pay for that. Great game!

Vince Young is a fine football player, Reggie Bush is a fine football player, and Matt Leinart is a fine football player. It's one of those situations where you hope either Bush or Young stays in to make the choice easier for you.
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Old 01-05-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick
This is where I am....

I have always wanted to get VY. I just thought that there was no way to sell that as a legitimate first pick. Sell it to our management and fans.

So, I saw the writing on the wall, saw the Bush manlove, the talk about Justice's best friend and tried to just accept what l thought was going to be the inevitable.

But now the inevitable doesn't seem so inevitable.

Oh my.
When it was Bush it was "manlove" but now that it's Vince Young all these posters want to tell you how they always knew Vince was the guy (and I'm not talking about you Texans_Chick).

I swear if these teams had a rematch next week and Bush broke loose for a couple hundred yards but Young didn't have the great game again there would be 30 plus posters in here who would flop back over in a heartbeat.

I think with some people their memory isn't capable of extending back past he last game they watched.
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Old 01-05-2006   #16
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Originally Posted by Nighthawk
I think you got this right so far, but you're not factoring in the possibility that Vince Young is the real deal, and that he could become, for the Texans, what Earl was for the Oilers back in the day. Let's imagine for a moment that VY is a special player in that way, let's look at his performance for the last three years, before that if you want to go back to HS as everybody does with Bush, and let's say he's the guy that CAN carry a franchise. How do you not take him when you're this sad sack franchise we got? I mean, even if you think, as some do, that Carr's good, and that the problem has been pretty much limited to the coaching, how do you pass up a kid who kind of looks like magic, looks like he just might turn out to be the Michael Jordan of football? I mean, Carr's not gonna win this franchise any place in history, so losing him is not anything to worry about, especially if you get the upside that VY seems to have. Add to that that you don't necessarily need a hero next year at QB, a solid vet/pro would do, a Kitna would do nicely, for example, and be a lot cheaper than Carr, and you could give VY a year to learn the pro game, and you haven't spent a lot more money than you're spending on Carr, and you've got a future that MIGHT JUST BE a HOF new breed of QB taking over your team. I don't see how you pass on him.
This could be said about everyone that is ever drafted: "What if he becomes something special...?" I think Vince and Reggie will both be good NFL players, but I still don't want to draft either one. If Vince was on this team the last four years in David Carr's place, he would have looked even worse. Vince has faster straight-line speed, although I think David is as quick changing directions. Vince is a couple inches taller but they weigh the same amount, so Vince has the potential to be able to get passes off better, although his sidearm throw will negate that. David Carr has a bit of a funky delivery, but it is similar to Brett Favre's, as has been pointed out numerous times by people in the media. I was recently going through some articles on David from his senior year of college and noticed how many comparisons were made between him and a young Brett Favre. Vince Young has a complete side-arm motion on his throws, which is, if anything, worse than Carr's delivery. David Carr has one of the 5 strongest arms in the NFL, Vince will not have that at all, and his throw is not any more accurate than David's. Next year we'll have a new coaching system and everything, and sure Vince could come in and develop into a star in 2-3 years, but I think David can be at least as good and probably better than Vince could if he is given that chance, and he already has four years of NFL experience under his belt so he should respond much quicker to better coaching. You can't compare David's lack of success the last couple years with Vince's year this year and the Rose Bowl last year and say Vince is guaranteed to be a better QB. Remember, David came into a new franchise that was being built from scratch as a rookie, got sacked a record number of times over the last four years, and has had some horrible coaching, not to mention a lack of talent acquisition and development around him. My point is I don't think we have to use a #1 pick and another $55-60 million to bring a new rookie QB in, I think Vince and David can succeed equally on this team.

I feel the same way about Reggie Bush, I think he will be a good NFL player, but I don't see him improving this team much, and not enough to spend the #1 pick and $50-55 million on him. I think in the NFL, especially on our current team, he will be just about like he was last night, look to bounce to the outside all the time and figure out that he can't do it with all the speed on defense, and the NFL will be even faster and hit a lot harder, not to mention all those missed arm tackles will start turning into solid hits. The game last night was much more like an NFL game than what USC has seen all year, and notice how much better success LenDale White had than Reggie Bush. Sure Reggie has some physical talents that Davis does not, but I think Davis possesses some power and other aspects that Bush does not, so I don't see Bush as much of an upgrade, and I don't think having the two of them together is an option economically.

I think this game was just what the Texans needed. 24 hours ago Reggie Bush was the god of all football and the consensus #1 pick, now that has become questioned by Leinart's very solid performance and Vince Young's great performance (if Vince comes out), and will hopefully make the Texans management even more open to exploring their options. Vince's people had said before if he was going to be a top 5 pick (which I think he solidified last night) that he'd come out, or that he'd come out if he won the Heisman and/or championship. It's still up in the air, but it seems much more likely now that he will come out. If anything, I think this increases our trade value. If Vince comes out, that will be three very good picks that teams will be willing to trade for, and while some may look to trade with the Titans to ensure they get one of those three, I think it still gives us some trading power. The Jets are stuck at #4 right now, and they could either go for Bush to replace Curtis Martin, or go with Leinart/Young if Pennington is not going to be healthy, and in their current spot they are out of the picture, but they could be willing to trade a lot to get up to #1 to have their choice of the top three guys that would all be good players and fill a big need for them, so that could help us out a lot.

All that said, the main thing we need to do to help this team is bring in better coaching (already in progress), and bring in a solid OL and defense. I think this game possibly creates a little doubt in our minds about the "sureness" of picking Reggie, and hopefully will open our eyes more into the fact that we have some serious holes on this team and need someone other than a rookie QB or RB to fill those spots to move towards completing our team and may make us consider trading as a better option, and it could have drastically increased our trading power by bringing Vince in as a very viable top 3 pick (if he does indeed come out). That said, it should be a very interesting 3-4 months as players may or may not declare for the draft and with all the senior games, combine, workouts, free agency, coaching searches and everything else, I can hardly wait for all the dust to settle and see what comes out of it, and hopefully that will yield a much-improved Houston Texans team.

Last edited by MorKnolle; 01-05-2006 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 01-05-2006   #17
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This could be said about everyone that is ever drafted: "What if he becomes something special...?" I think Vince and Reggie will both be good NFL players, but I still don't want to draft either one. If Vince was on this team the last four years in David Carr's place, he would have looked even worse. Vince has faster straight-line speed, although I think David is as quick changing directions. Vince is a couple inches taller but they weigh the same amount, so Vince has the potential to be able to get passes off better, although his sidearm throw will negate that. David Carr has a bit of a funky delivery, but it is similar to Brett Favre's, as has been pointed out numerous times by people in the media. I was recently going through some articles on David from his senior year of college and noticed how many comparisons were made between him and a young Brett Favre. Vince Young has a complete side-arm motion on his throws, which is, if anything, worse than Carr's delivery. David Carr has one of the 5 strongest arms in the NFL, Vince will not have that at all, and his throw is not any more accurate than David's. Next year we'll have a new coaching system and everything, and sure Vince could come in and develop into a star in 2-3 years, but I think David can be at least as good and probably better than Vince could if he is given that chance, and he already has four years of NFL experience under his belt so he should respond much quicker to better coaching. You can't compare David's lack of success the last couple years with Vince's year this year and the Rose Bowl last year and say Vince is guaranteed to be a better QB. Remember, David came into a new franchise that was being built from scratch as a rookie, got sacked a record number of times over the last four years, and has had some horrible coaching, not to mention a lack of talent acquisition and development around him. My point is I don't think we have to use a #1 pick and another $55-60 million to bring a new rookie QB in, I think Vince and David can succeed equally on this team. The main thing we need to do to help this team is bring in better coaching (already in process), and bring in a solid OL and defense.

I think that was a very good and well thought explanation. Quarterbacks take the longest to develop and are arguably the least likely to succeed. I'm not saying that Vince won't be a successful quarterback so don't jump all over me, but his passing still is sub-par in the NFL level. Your passing ability almost has to be godly in the NFL. You cannot be a quarterback who is just a runner in the NFL. Michael Vick is proving that. Vince may be a better passer than Michael, but not by much. Michael also has a much stronger arm than Vince. I don't know how many quarterbacks there have been who in college were throwing for 300 to 400 yards and struggled greatly in the NFL. Vince may turn out to be a good NFL player but he will never have a game like that in the NFL.
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Old 01-05-2006   #18
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Uh oh Tulexan, we've been agreeing on several things this past week or so. Maybe this board can actually enlighten both sides of an issue and bring people from different views closer together on a subject.
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Old 01-05-2006   #19
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Any game that results in over 1000 yards of offense had better be good. And that's exactly what the game was last night. What and awesome game for the Texas Longhorns. Maybe now these professional announcers will get off kissing ucs...you know and give the Texas Longhorns the respect they deserve.
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Old 01-05-2006   #20
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Any game that results in over 1000 yards of offense had better be good. And that's exactly what the game was last night. What and awesome game for the Texas Longhorns. Maybe now these professional announcers will get off kissing ucs...you know and give the Texas Longhorns the respect they deserve.
Did you block out Dan Fouts' commentary the entire night? He was Vince Young's #1 fan.
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