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Old 12-30-2005   #1
cuppacoffee
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Default Consensus Opinion?

Does this qualify as a consensus opinion?

From McLains column in Fridays Chronic.

"Here's something to chew on: A lot of NFL coaches, scouts and personnel people don't think the Texans' talent is as bad as their record."

I've been stating this for several weeks now, this only confirms it.
John and I can't both be wrong, can we?..

All you doubters will have to adjust your thinking now. ..

The gospel according to McLain


..
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Old 12-30-2005   #2
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Another soft article by Jon Mclain. See the thing about his argument is this he just said we have more talent, and we have guys that can score touchdowns, but what he dont have is guys that keep those guys upright in order to score touchdowns. He also failed to point out that everyteam he mentioned having one or two first rounders the first rounder is the anchor and most important player on their line. It is weird to me that this guy who is supposedly so talented in knowing the NFL and football would make these stretches. Great O linemen are not found throughout the draft it is like digging for oil, but guys that can score touchdowns are littered throughout the draft. You will find more guys that can score in later rounds than you will find OL that can keep a QB off his ***. Not saying we should not draft Bush, or that he is not good because he is, I am just saying a top-tier OT and an interior Lineman, plus Bentley and some defensive guys will go a longer way than 50+ million tied up in Bush. I could be wrong though.
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Old 12-30-2005   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppacoffee
Does this qualify as a consensus opinion?

From McLains column in Fridays Chronic.

"Here's something to chew on: A lot of NFL coaches, scouts and personnel people don't think the Texans' talent is as bad as their record."

I've been stating this for several weeks now, this only confirms it.
John and I can't both be wrong, can we?..

All you doubters will have to adjust your thinking now. ..

The gospel according to McLain


..
I too have been stating this for the majority of this season. It's nice to know that John McLain is onboard...

Ok, it means literally nothing to me that John's saying this. At this point in the season any sportswriter worth his salt could generate that column in his or her sleep.

There's absolutely zero doubt that the Texans have more talent than their record indicates. I don't think anyone here can debate that with a straight face. The only real question is how much better are the Texans? We've got two wins. There's not a single NFL team in the modern era that didn't have better talent than a 2 win season. I think any NFL team with reasonably competent coaching and leadership should be able to pull in 4 wins during any season. That is IMO a bare minimum.

Are we 4-12 better? 7-9 better? Maybe we're 10-6 better. Finding out where we should be is part of Dan Reeves job. I'm looking forward to finding out what he has to say just like everybody else.
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Old 12-30-2005   #4
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The most relavant comparison for the Texans is the Texans of 2002, 2003,
and 2004. To me there's no doubt we have more talent this year than any of those teams in previous years yet they all have better records than this years
edition.
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Old 12-30-2005   #5
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Well, the improved play you are seeing towards the end of the year is (in my opinion) due to this situation:

Yes, we DO have better talent than the record shows.

However, this team fizzed out last year mentally and physically during the last game of the season against Cleveland and it was basically because the coaching philosophy of "play it close to win it in the end" had finally worn itself out with young, dynamic players such as Carr, DD, AJ, etc. You can't be as explosive as those guys are and just get beat by a FG each game because your coaches played prevent defense the rest of the way and called HB dives the rest of the way. That stuff just wears thin on us as fans, but think about being one of THOSE players who suffer for it DAILY.

Thus, you see Carr call plays and set a franchise record for points in a quarter. You see a defensive team swarming to the ball for a change. And it all happens mysteriously at the same time a "consultant" comes onto the scene, making it clear that the dictatorship of Capers is officially over.

All of it points to this: The players tanked enough regular season games this year to reveal the coaching flaws to McNair, and it set into motion a series of events that have doomed the coaches--Am I saying they purposefully lost? Not entirely, but they TRIED less. Now, with the team knowing that the fates of the coaches are sealed, the players can finally play like they had before the Cleveland game of last season--Playing with passion, putting all of it out there on the field each weekend. Otherwise, why bust your rear for a coaching staff who will squander your lead each and every time?

Before Dan Reeves, only a few players were really trying each and every game. Most of them had bought into the locker room "vibe" that there's really no point in trying your all when this group of has-been coaches will crush any sort of spirit or fire you have burning inside of you at the expense of keeping the reins of control firmly in their hands (in short, getting the players to succeed under the coaches' flawed system and then getting credited for it as if the coaching was what won the game).

See ya' later Dom. Time to pick up a hobby.
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Old 12-30-2005   #6
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I don't think there is a cap limit on how much you can spend on coaching. To me that is the heart and soul of the problem. McNair likes Capers as a person and so does most everyone else that posts here. Unfortunately he is in the wrong job. If he would have came here as a DC then he probably would still be here. Some have suggested keeping him on in that position, but that just couldn't and won't happen. That would not be in the best interest of Capers or the ball club. He needs a fresh start and so does the ball club. The draft will take care of itself if we find the right coaches.

What do I want for the new year:

1) The best O-line coach money can buy.
2) The best Receivers coach money can buy.
3) The best Defensive coaches money can buy.
4) The best Head Coach money can buy with a reserve for the Defensive and Offensive Coordinators of his chose, but not without review.

Its not the players that are the problem in most cases, its rather what they have been coached to do and the systems that have been employed. Bring on Shula, Reeves or do I dare say Parcells if Mr Jones doesn't like him anymore. I really don't like Parcells, but he is a top tier coach or a College coach that knows how to coach players in the fundimentals of the game. I want to either see one of the top tier coaches or someone who is fundamentally sound from the college ranks. For examples, Papa Joe, Pat Hill or the coach from Tulsa would be people I would look at. I don't think Tedford at Cal would be available, but he would solve the QB and receiver problems in very short term. However, its going to be the makeup of the coaching staff, how they are put together, and how they gel as a unit that is going to determine what happens over the next several years. If you want a winner Mr. McNair, then spend your mone and time on this aspect of the game. They say the game is won and lost in the trenches, but today with the equality of the NFL it is won in the coaching ranks with everything else being equal.
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Old 12-30-2005   #7
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There is an old saying among coaches and that is "You are your record". I think it fits for this team.

Yes, I think we are better in some positions then in previous years like wide receiver. AJ, Gaffney, Armstrong and Mathis will make a good combination next year. But in other areas, like linebacker and defensive backs, we have regressed. The o-line is still a huge bust and the d-line is still hurt all the time. The QB position has also regressed. DC played much better last year then this year. I blame this on the pounding he has suffered over the past four years and changing OC has not helped that much. DC has played better as of late, but in total he has regressed this year. DD and Wells are serviceable at running back, but nothing special here. It hard to grade out TE because of the manner in which we use them - mostly for blocking - so you can include them with the o-line as far as I'm concerned.

Jimmy Johnson has stated on several occasions that the talent level on this team is not were it needs to be and I trust his judgment over mine, yours or John McClain's judgments any day.

Sorry to burst you bubble.
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Old 12-30-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wharton
There is an old saying among coaches and that is "You are your record". I think it fits for this team.
It does fit for this team. The point being made is that there is better individual talent on this team than our record reflects. This is largely the same team that went 7-9 last year and probably should have been 8-8. Yes, we changed two linebackers, but most were happy to see Foreman go and I'd say that Wong was an upgrade to Foreman regardless. Greenwood is not enough of a dropoff to warrant our current record. We have had Gary Walker back for much of this year - something we didn't have last year. Robaire Smith had a full year in the system coming into this year. Payne's back to full strength (and has played well, given the scenario). Peek's been on the field a lot - something fans were clamoring for last year. Glenn's gone, but he's not played that well in Dallas, truth be told. We have the exact same O-line personnel we had last year, but the coaching staff is not playing all of them, nor in the same positions. The line has regressed - as if we even thought that was possible. We have the same WRs, plus a better return game WR. We have the same RB, who had about the same year he always has - over 100 total yards a game. We have the same lack of TE we had last year.

We didn't suddenly go from 7-win talent to 2-win talent.
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Old 12-30-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wharton
There is an old saying among coaches and that is "You are your record". I think it fits for this team.
Yes, I think we are better in some positions then in previous years like wide receiver. AJ, Gaffney, Armstrong and Mathis will make a good combination next year. But in other areas, like linebacker and defensive backs, we have regressed. The o-line is still a huge bust and the d-line is still hurt all the time. The QB position has also regressed. DC played much better last year then this year. I blame this on the pounding he has suffered over the past four years and changing OC has not helped that much. DC has played better as of late, but in total he has regressed this year. DD and Wells are serviceable at running back, but nothing special here. It hard to grade out TE because of the manner in which we use them - mostly for blocking - so you can include them with the o-line as far as I'm concerned.

Jimmy Johnson has stated on several occasions that the talent level on this team is not were it needs to be and I trust his judgment over mine, yours or John McClain's judgments any day.

Sorry to burst you bubble.

Don't be sorry....It ain't busted yet.

follow the bold statements....Your statements btw.

There is an old saying among coaches and that is "You are your record". I think it fits for this team uh you can also substitute coaches here
"we have regressed".. sounds like coaching to me.
"dline is still hurt all the time"....this makes them bad players? Don't think so.
"Qback position has regressed" again, sounds like coaching to me.
"changing oc has not helped"..brilliant opservation, this is one of the inept coaches I have been talking about.
"manner in which we use them" again, brilliant observation, who decides how to use them?

I am not ready to defer my judgement to Johnson, I suspect he had an agenda at the time he stated that. I have only seen one film clip where he was goaded into saying something, and I didn't glean from it what you did.
But it's all just opinions isn't it, and you know what they say about opinions.

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Old 12-30-2005   #10
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Well, first off, while this is a team game, each individual must do his job in order for the team to work. Our line is a prime example of this in action. Missed calls on the line, not sliding down to pick up the blitz, and then just getting beat happen on every single play. Every lineman from varsity high school and up, knows to shift to the blitz and not doing it is the players fault, not the coaches. Coaches pound this into the players head all day, every day. You can blame it on the coaches if you want to, but the way these guys have played this year is beyond bad coaching. They simply do not have what it takes to compete in the NFL.

And, while the comments on bad coaching are valid, it still doesn't explain all the problems we have had this year. Did Capers and his assistants change the way they coach that much over the summer to foster this disasterous year? Given his press conferences quotes of not executing, I don't think anything has changed there. Capers wants a smashmouth football team that runs first to set up the pass, and play strong defense to controll time of possession and field position. Its similar to Denver's system, Pittsburgh's system and Baltimore's system and it is heavily reliant on talent. This year Denver and Pittsburgh have talent, Baltimore doesn't and we don't either.

Think about it, other then AJ & DRob, there are not many players on this roster who could sign a free agent contract with a competitive team and be handed a starting position. Sure most of our players could compete for starting position for Cleveland or SF, but how many of Texans could start for Indy, Pittsburgh, or Denver. Most couldn't.

This team is not one or two players short of the playoffs. We need help across the board.

I hope I am wrong!
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Old 12-30-2005   #11
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Poor coaching and sub-standard line = gas + match. Until that is fixed we will not really know what we have or where we are at talent wise. I suspect we are really a 7-9 talent level ball club, but who can tell when we have the Captain of the Titanic driving the ship and the deckhands are rearainging the deck chairs.
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Old 12-30-2005   #12
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Bad coaching. And it has BEEN bad coaching since the beginning.

Whatever successes we DID have, in my opinion, was the result of our TALENT overcoming our COACHING.

If you ask me, after last season's debacle againts the Browns...a game we should have won easily...the TALENT (players) said "To heck with trying our rears off for this type of coaching regime.

As a player, I think they just got t-i-r-e-d of putting all of themselves out on the line each weekend when they know that the coaching is so very sub-par and inept....and will ultimately undo any great individual or team-oriented accomplishments made in a game. It just always ends up the same: Texans lose by a FG or Texans lose in OT.

I like the talent this team has. Babin and Hollings are really the only two players that I think were a mistake to draft at their positions.

Carr. AJ. DD. Dunta. Mathis. Heck, even Wells and Morency are showing great stuff when they get the true chance to shine. IMO, we have a pretty tight nucleus to build around if we can just find AND pay some higher-caliber coaches who bring credibility and talent of their own to the table.
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Old 12-30-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
The most relavant comparison for the Texans is the Texans of 2002, 2003,
and 2004. To me there's no doubt we have more talent this year than any of those teams in previous years yet they all have better records than this years
edition.

Agreed.

Our O line has been sorry since year 1. The biggest difference between this year and previous years is that our defense has looked horrible for most of the season. If you can't stop the run and give up big plays left and right and get few turnovers, you get too far behind in a game and have to start throwing the rock too much. And with a O line that has a hard time pass protecting, you can't do that. And then it gets ugly fast.

I would like a scheme that young and new players can learn quickly and not have to think too much and just play. Player movement and the salary cap demands that sort of coaching. I would also like more experience, leadership and talent on the defensive side of the ball.

We can talk all we want about draft this and that, but there are few players that can come straight outta college and have the smarts not to make the mistakes that cost you during games. All it takes is a play here or there and you lose. And good experienced players can reallly help young players in ways that coaches can't--they are often the best teachers.

Peeps made fun of Capers all year when he used the E word, but it is true--with young players especially, they have a hard time consistently executing because they are trying to think to much and aren't comfortable with the game yet.

Despite the bad season, I have seen enough things to have some optimism. But then again, I am predisposed to be optimistic.

Depth makes it easier to compete with both halves of a football game. Takes time to get depth.
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Old 12-30-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc
It does fit for this team. The point being made is that there is better individual talent on this team than our record reflects. This is largely the same team that went 7-9 last year and probably should have been 8-8. Yes, we changed two linebackers, but most were happy to see Foreman go and I'd say that Wong was an upgrade to Foreman regardless. Greenwood is not enough of a dropoff to warrant our current record. We have had Gary Walker back for much of this year - something we didn't have last year. Robaire Smith had a full year in the system coming into this year. Payne's back to full strength (and has played well, given the scenario). Peek's been on the field a lot - something fans were clamoring for last year. Glenn's gone, but he's not played that well in Dallas, truth be told. We have the exact same O-line personnel we had last year, but the coaching staff is not playing all of them, nor in the same positions. The line has regressed - as if we even thought that was possible. We have the same WRs, plus a better return game WR. We have the same RB, who had about the same year he always has - over 100 total yards a game. We have the same lack of TE we had last year.

We didn't suddenly go from 7-win talent to 2-win talent.
This team started its nose dive after the 7th game in '04--since then, our record is 5-24 and our 5 wins were against the Jags/Bears/Titans/Browns/Cardinals---Texans beat 1 team with a winning record (Jags), all of which means we didn't just get bad this year, we've been bad for a year and a half. In fact, we beat and played better football against good teams in 2003. It's just taken a complete melt down for some people to finally see what was 'brewing' a long time ago-our biggest mistake was building a team based upon it being 'ok' to lose until we neared the end of the 5 yr plan. How do you build upon losing one day and then-all of a sudden-it's time to switch gears and start winning? I think many posters are correct when they state that Caper's philosophies wore on the players, holding the teams developement back.
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Old 12-31-2005   #15
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"...I think many posters are correct when they state that Caper's philosophies wore on the players, holding the teams developement back." -- tsip

------------------

That's exactly what it is.

This is going to sound funny, but I have to share this analogy:

I grew up in a family who competed in rodeo events. We bought a horse and started roping claves off of him, but he kept RUNNING OVER the calf instead of just "tracking" behind the calf so we could rope the calf. We considered the horse to be worthless for roping, so we sold him for about $1,000.

And this is where it gets UGLY.

One day, I turn onto ESPN2 and the National Finals Rodeo (NFR, for short) was airing. I see the SAME horse being ridden in the steer wrestling event, where the guy jumps off the horse and onto a steer and the guy then throws the steer down and the time stops. For that event, you need a race track-type horse to just flat out race down the arena as fast as he can go.

This horse "Preacher" (that was his name) had been used for something he wasn't meant for (calf roping) and we sold him thinking he wasn't any good to us. But someone saw the horse's talent and scooped him up for a cheap price. Now, the latest "asking price" I have heard rumored to be offered for the horse is somewhere in the neighborhood of $150,000. And from what I hear...the owners have turned those kind of prices down, if you can believe THAT.

Me and my family are happy that the horse has succeeded...but we are also very sick at our stomachs because we let a good thing get away. Ouch.

Thus, it is with this Texans team and its talent. It's no good behind Capers and his HB dive offense. You've got explosive players like Carr, AJ, DD, Mathis, etc., but they are penned up behind a stone-age offensive philosophy that calls for stale, vanilla-flavored style. Utilize this team's talent for what it was built for.

That's my take.
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