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Old 12-30-2005   #1
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Default Chris Simms v Dave Ragone

Dave Ragone was drafted before Chris Simms by a handful of pix in the 3rd round of our 2nd draft. Not that this is any indicator but Dave has gone over to Europe and shattered some records. If Dave were to come out to the NFL a year earlier, many say he would've been a 1st round talent. Yet he festers on our depth chart @ #3.

Chris Simms gets the starting nod due to an injured Greiese (right?). He is doing more than managing games not to lose. He's really getting a chance chunk it around the park a little. The Bucs are in the playoff hunt too. He will be the starter next year if they make the playoffs and actually win a game or 2.

Now I'm not saying that we should've taken him. But we should start looking at Ragone a little harder this upcoming off-season. Forget all this talk that he was drafted to be traded, if Carr gets hit funny (which he has the chance about 60-70 times a season) then we'll be in the same boat.

Just wanted your thoughts though on the subject.
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Old 12-30-2005   #2
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At the least, as a fan, I have always wanted to see what Ragone does in a real game. Im not saying he is better than Carr, because we have never seen him play. I personally think it is a shame not to see what this kid can do.
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Old 12-30-2005   #3
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I think every QB on the roster should be given a shot to go out there and see what they can do I think Ragone had a shot a year or two ago but since then he's gone to NFLE and got some much need experience on the field. I say that we take a close look at him this offseason..

I not sure what his contracts looks like but we should either trade him now or give him a good look.. Hopefully the new coaching staff will.. make sure that EVERYBODY is fighting for their job.. so that IF and that's a big IF he's better than Carr then he's put on the field where he belongs..
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Old 12-30-2005   #4
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Ragone is 3 on the depth chart for a reason people. He will likely be the backup next year and who knows maybe he will get some PT, but I doubt it. Hopefully next year we can swindle someone into taking this kid off our hands.
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Old 12-30-2005   #5
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Guys like Troy Evans, Shantee Orr, Domanick Davis, Antwaan Peek, and Derrick Armstrong have shown enough of themselves on the practice field to put themselves in a position to see real playing time. These are all guys that were not drafted to be starters (maybe Peek), but they showed the necessary skills, work ethic, and determination on the practice field to put themselves in position to catch the coaches' eyes. Ragone has been on our practice field for quite some time. As is the case with Armstrong, the coaches prefer to play someone else ahead of him (Bradford in DA's case, Carr in Ragone's), but still ... if he'd been impressing on the practice field, don't you think the coaches would have at least moved him to second string?
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Old 12-30-2005   #6
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Simms has shown what he can do in big games in college...65-13
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Old 12-30-2005   #7
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
but still ... if he'd been impressing on the practice field, don't you think the coaches would have at least moved him to second string?
I don't know really. It's hard to figure out what our coaches are thinking at any given time.

Was Victor Riley "impressive" on the practice field? He sure grabbed that starting LT spot right away. One season Wand showed enough to be given the job and by the next training camp he was done. What didn't the coaches see in his case? After seeing Riley play in games I find it almost impossible to believe that he impressed anyone in practice.

Who knows what our staff thinks at any given time? I can find no rhyme or reason to much of what they do. It all seems very random to me. Ragone I'd like to see play of course but I don't want to see it happen until next year when we're in a different offense and a staff of (hopefully) competent coaches are making decisions.
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Old 12-30-2005   #8
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I think the Texans brass believe in being consistant . You don't get to 2-13 without keeping the nose to the grindstone and marching Carr out there come hell or highwater . Even if its not Carr's fault you would think they'd tried something different ... I think this goes back to being to loyal at times .

Ragones gotta better gig than Joppru , Dave does 'nt have to rehab . He's a fist day pick who talks to Hollings , Morency and Wand about what their going to do if they get to play again .
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Old 12-30-2005   #9
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel
I don't know really. It's hard to figure out what our coaches are thinking at any given time.

Was Victor Riley "impressive" on the practice field? He sure grabbed that starting LT spot right away. One season Wand showed enough to be given the job and by the next training camp he was done. What didn't the coaches see in his case? After seeing Riley play in games I find it almost impossible to believe that he impressed anyone in practice.

Who knows what our staff thinks at any given time? I can find no rhyme or reason to much of what they do. It all seems very random to me. Ragone I'd like to see play of course but I don't want to see it happen until next year when we're in a different offense and a staff of (hopefully) competent coaches are making decisions.
According to the media who watched training camp practices, Riley was more impressive than Wand in practice. Maybe Riley had a moratorium on cheeseburgers at that time or something.
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Old 12-30-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frills
Simms has shown what he can do in big games in college...65-13
I'm not a Texas alum and, aside from my interest in having a national championship in the state of Texas, I have no rooting interest for either UT or A&M. Simms didn't give up 65 points on his own. He had a horrendous game that day, but people really need to give it a rest, sheesh.
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Old 12-30-2005   #11
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I think we will probably see the end of Tony B. and Ragone will be the #2 going into training camp.
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Old 12-30-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frills
Simms has shown what he can do in big games in college...65-13
In college, Ragone was Offensive Player of the Year 3 straight years without the talent that Simms had (Williams/Thomas/etc.) so that does not figure much into the equation. However, with all the problems we've had this year, Ragone should have gotten some reps---if, for nothing else, so we could see where he stands in terms of developement. Besides his success in Europe, he was also our most productive QB during pre-season.

Capers is his own worse enemy in the way he uses players--some, like Babin, he drafts to learn a position he never played in college--others, like Ragone, never see the light of day--finally, others like DD are over used in a scheme they are not physically suited for (power back) and get injured every year. And, the real problem with DD is that we don't need for him to carry the ball 25+ times a game because Wells and Morency can get results and lessen the burden on DD---but that's Capers, he subs freely on defense but not so with his skilled players on OF.
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Old 12-30-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
Ragone is 3 on the depth chart for a reason people. He will likely be the backup next year and who knows maybe he will get some PT, but I doubt it. Hopefully next year we can swindle someone into taking this kid off our hands.
Even though he was NFL Europe's MVP, that's still not "our NFL". The calbre of players are alot less than the "real NFL".

Just curious Coach C, do you actually think they would sit Carr and give Ragone a chance? No way. The majority of the teams in the NFL would have sit Carr if they lost the games the Texans lost this season. Would like to see what he could do if given a chance.

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Old 12-30-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
I don't know really. It's hard to figure out what our coaches are thinking at any given time.

Was Victor Riley "impressive" on the practice field? He sure grabbed that starting LT spot right away. One season Wand showed enough to be given the job and by the next training camp he was done. What didn't the coaches see in his case? After seeing Riley play in games I find it almost impossible to believe that he impressed anyone in practice.

Who knows what our staff thinks at any given time? I can find no rhyme or reason to much of what they do. It all seems very random to me. Ragone I'd like to see play of course but I don't want to see it happen until next year when we're in a different offense and a staff of (hopefully) competent coaches are making decisions.
I'll give a big AMEN! to that.
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Old 12-30-2005   #15
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Davis, Wells, Morency...Why do we need another RB?
Frills you forgot Hollings!

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Old 12-30-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
Ragone is 3 on the depth chart for a reason people. He will likely be the backup next year and who knows maybe he will get some PT, but I doubt it. Hopefully next year we can swindle someone into taking this kid off our hands.
This is the same depth chart that has been assembled by Capers and Casserly. Same ones that started Buc in front of anyone. I dont trust these guys on their talent evaluation, so until I see him play, I will be open for the thought of Ragone possibly being a better QB than anyone else who is starting.
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Old 12-30-2005   #17
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Ragone has not capitalized on the handful of opportunities he has been given so far. Of coarse, these opportunities have been behind the same o-line that has allowed over 200 sacks in past four years so who really knows what he can do. Carr, until the last few games, has been stinkin up the joint so why not give him a shot at a full game. At this point, what could it hurt!
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Old 12-30-2005   #18
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You saw him play two years ago, hell you saw him in NFLE where he threw up lame duck balls that were good enough that sub-level NFL prospects could not make plays on, Hell you have saw him for 3 pre-seasons and he still has not inspired anyone. Come on people. I understand your hatred for Capers and Casserly and who they play, but Ragone is not and may not ever be the answer.
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Old 12-30-2005   #19
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Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
Ragone is very overrated. Go back to the Buff game this year; Carr's performance still makes him 5 times the QB Ragone ever will be. Ragone was good against 3rd stringers in NFL Europe, he was good against a weak conference he played in during college. RAGONE SUCKS.

I disagree. I want to see him play in a game against NFL first string talent with the same supporting cast that David Carr has. The only time we got to see Dave Ragone play QB here he had to start during his rookie year and his running game consisted of Tony Hollings. I can't bring myself to base my entire opinion of him on those two games. You apparently have no problem doing that.

He wasn't expected to be ready to play during his rookie season and he performed poorly. All things being equal he wasn't that far off of some of David Carr's 2002 games. He's less mobile but I saw a lot of the same confusion with maybe a little more rust than we saw on Carr in his first year.

As for his college conference I understand that C-USA is a weak conference. He did what he did at the college level. He then performed well in NFL Europe. All he's done is perform well at every level he's been given a reasonable chance to succeed at. I don't know what more you can ask of him.
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Old 12-30-2005   #20
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I don't necessarily disagree with you Herv; I just think that if he'd shown the necessary progression in practice, someone would have noticed and it would have been leaked by now. He would have either passed Banks on the depth chart or there would be press pushing for it all season. Ragone has largely been afterthought, aside from threads like this (which are based on nothing, really), which tells me he hasn't impressed anyone of consequence.

Obviously, I haven't seen him play anymore than any of you, so I have no more info and this is all speculation. I will add that Rohan Davey was NFLE MVP and he's not even in the NFL, I believe. He got cut this year in preseason and no one really even gave him a real chance at a #3 job. NFLE is really just a small step ahead of college.
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