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Old 12-27-2005   #1
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Lightbulb To those who want Reggie Bush...

I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.
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Old 12-27-2005   #2
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Good post.
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Old 12-27-2005   #3
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They also had a crappy coach like Wayne Fontes that could only inspire his team to play great everytime his job was in danger. They also let go of their best QB Rodney Pete and their defense was never any good.

I think our defense went south this year becaue of the young talent on this team defensively. We do have alot of promise though in two young safeties, a real good CB in Dunta, and perhaps a new starter in Shantee Orr.

Our WR Andre Johnson is far better than Herman Moore ever was and Detroit never had the depth at RB that we do. Even though we make ourselves one demensional with the crappy OL we have we still aren't as one demensional as the Lions were with Sanders.
Getting Reggie Bush would create alot of depth to many positions.

Now the one thing I fear is that the team wont like this dude because of all the hype by the fans.
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Old 12-27-2005   #4
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Note: I wouldnt mind getting Reggie, or trading him for more picks.

All I have to say, is at least they had the chance to play in the playoffs. I dont think Reggie can do it all. But he wouldnt be our only draft pick.

We would have 6 other draft picks to help out. Also this isnt a one year rebuilding plan. We will have a couple of more drafts to add to reggies team.

I would take Reggie over anyone in this draft, plus whatever we could get for him.

BUT! like i said, I wont mind if we do trade down, and fill multiple slots. As long as we get good value. Which I think we need a new GM to get.
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Old 12-27-2005   #5
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I'm in the tradedown camp too, but think about this for a second. We would be fools to pass up on "the next Barry Sanders" just because of the Lions history. If anything it should be a lesson of "Just because you have a marquee player, doesn't mean you can quit building the rest of the team".
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Old 12-27-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexanAddict
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.

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QUOTE(jojob101 @ Dec 26 2005, 06:16 PM)
I have been saying this since the Bush threads began. One guy cannot take a crap team to the promise land. It has to be several key players at each position and depth. A defense wins championships and not a "Barry Sanders" look alike. Sure he (Bush) will bring for some nice plays but we can get those plays with other quality players on the 53 man roaster (gore/hicks) etc.

Barry Sanders went out with a ton of nice highlights and dances but never have you seen him hold up the Lombardi trophy. I bet if you ask him he would want the trophy. In fact, that's what they all want.

So that being said, this article underlines and highlights our should be view on missing the #1 pick. Even if we had the #1 I would hope we would take someone’s trade down. Gore is the man..!!
Shawn Alexander wasn't a #1
Tikki wasn't a #1
Terrel Davis, Stephen Davis, Dillon, Willie Paker... etc. etc. etc. We find the runners and make them holes to run through! go NINERS








yes its true barry has no trophy, but did you really expect the niners to stop building the team if we got him the way detroit did when they got barry? the fact that barry has no lombardi is due to the fact that while detroit had him they did nothing to compliment him and relied on him exclusivly. im not totally disapointed that we are out of the bush bowl, and i am happy we won last week and i expect to win again, i think a two game winning streak helps this club going into next year almost as much as a decent draft choice does. detroit was a sorry team with a sorry coach that didnt have the smarts to build around barry,s talent. i dont think we would have been that negligent if we had gotten bush. put barry sanders on any team that did continue to build around him and i bet he would have had his lombardi. ant team who makes the same bad drafting choices and signing practices that detroit did when they had barry is going to be bad...barry or no barry.


had the same argument from our own boards
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Old 12-27-2005   #7
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Originally Posted by THE NFL DRAFT
Note: I wouldnt mind getting Reggie, or trading him for more picks.

All I have to say, is at least they had the chance to play in the playoffs. I dont think Reggie can do it all. But he wouldnt be our only draft pick.

We would have 6 other draft picks to help out. Also this isnt a one year rebuilding plan. We will have a couple of more drafts to add to reggies team.

I would take Reggie over anyone in this draft, plus whatever we could get for him.

BUT! like i said, I wont mind if we do trade down, and fill multiple slots. As long as we get good value. Which I think we need a new GM to get.
I agree with that. Drafting Sanders was the step in the right direction but it was all the drafting of crappy QBs instead of filling something else that was the reason for sorry football in Detroit.
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Old 12-27-2005   #8
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I'm sorry but I don't believe that comparing Reggie Bush to Barry Sanders is a bad thing. You cannot blame Barry Sanders for the Lions being a terrible franchise for the past 50 years. Barry didn't have the responsibility of picking good coaches, good general managers, and putting good players on the field. Any team in the NFL would love to have Barry Sanders on their team.

Saying that Reggie Bush is like Barry Sanders should be a reason why we would want him, not that Barry never won in the playoffs therefore Reggie will never win in the playoffs.
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Old 12-27-2005   #9
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Reggie is a Heisman winner.

His chances of failing in the NFL is high.
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Old 12-27-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexanAddict
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.
Your point is a flawed one I'm afraid. There are good arguments for not drafting Reggie Bush and for trading down to get more picks. This simply is not one of them.

The reason is simple. The Lions lack of progress when they had Barry Sanders does not in any way reflect on the use of a draft pick to select Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders was a brilliant selection and would be so if you had not one single other player signed to your roster at the time you chose him.

The Lions lack of progress during the Sanders years is an indictment of the teams inability to assemble the necessary talent around Barry Sanders to get the job done. You can't blame Barry because the Lions consistently made poor choices in the draft and hired a parade of boobs to coach their team. Barry Sanders did what he was drafted to do. He gave the Detroit Lions a HOF quality running game for the period of time he played for them. As so many posters point out when arguing against drafting Reggie Bush, football is a team sport and no one player can win a Super Bowl. Earl Campbell couldn't do it, Barry Sanders couldn't do it, and Reggie Bush won't do it even if he does turn out to be the next ______________ (insert famous running back name here).

He won't do it unless the organization assembles the kind of talent around him that it takes to win a Super Bowl and THEN provides that talent with the kind of coaching it takes to win a Super Bowl.

If the argument is about one player getting you to the big game then the argument is over. It's not going to happen.

Following that sentiment why do you draft David Carr in 2002? One player can't get you to the Super Bowl so why select David Carr in our first year when our needs were far greater than they are today? The Texans took him because they believed that he was capable of leading this team to the Super Bowl and because you build your team one great player at a time.

You draft the best players you can get and you do it year after year after year. One draft isn't enough even with extra picks . We had extra picks in 2002 and 2003. Who wants to go back over where that got us? Anybody?

You don't pass on a great player when you see one standing right in front of you. To me that is one simple argument that trumps all others when it comes to drafting Reggie Bush (assuming we hold the #1 overall selection). It's a combination of the following.

1. When are you going to be holding this high a draft pick again? Hopefully not anytime soon right?

2. Do you see a player that's worthy of being selected #1 overall?

3. Do you already have someone at that position who is better than the guy you want to pick?

Most teams don't want to come back here to the top of the losers pool and trading into this spot is expensive. When you hold the #1 pick you've got hold of something very unusual. One team per year gets to pick before everyone else. Nobody is off the board. You can do anything (yes, even walk away for the right price).

I think right now that Bush is a player who's worth this pick. I think so. I want to see the Rose Bowl of course and I'm thinking that if he does to Texas what he's done to everyone else then he's very much worth the first selection overall. Whether or not Bush is worth the #1 is an arguable point.

I don't think there's any doubt that IF you believe Bush is worth the first overall pick on the draft then Domanick Davis is not better than Bush. At that point it's a forgone conclusion that Bush is an upgrade.

Barring a trade down that gets us greater value than Bush I take Bush. The trade down is a strong possibility but you have to make something of those picks. Trade Bush away for more selections and then pick some guys who fail to perform and you'll be kicking yourself for the rest of his career (and possibly longer).

Tough choice. I'll be glad when next week's game is over and we know whether it's going to have to be made.
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Old 12-27-2005   #11
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But you have to consider the rest of the Lions drafts surrounding Sanders in order to view it in it's proper context.

1993
2(33) Ryan McNeil DB Miami (FL)
3(62) Antonio London LB Alabama
3(68) Mike Compton C West Virginia
6(147) Greg Jeffries DB Virginia
7(174) Ty Hallock LB Michigan State
8(201) Kevin Miniefield DB Arizona State

1992
1(26) Robert Porcher DE South Carolina State
2(53) Tracy Scroggins LB Tulsa
2(56) Jason Hanson K Washington State
3(81) Thomas McLemore TE Southern
6(145) Larry Tharpe T Tennessee State
8(221) Willie Clay DB Georgia Tech
11(306) Ed Tillison RB NW Missouri

1991
1(10) Herman Moore WR Virginia
3(58) Reggie Barrett WR Texas-El Paso
4(91) Kevin Scott DB Stanford
5(118) Scott Conover G Purdue
6(151) Richie Andrews K Florida State
7(178) Franklin Thomas TE Grambling
8(205) Cedric Jackson RB Texas Christian
9(231) Darryl Milburn DE Grambling
11(285) Slip Watkins WR Louisiana State
12(318) Zeno Alexander LB Arizona

1990
1(7) Andre Ware QB Houston
2(35) Dan Owens DT USC
3(62) Marc Spindler DT Pittsburgh
4(90) Rob Hinckley LB Stanford
4(105) Chris Oldham DB Oregon
5(118) Jeff Campbell WR Colorado
6(147) Maurice Henry LB Kansas State
7(174) Tracy Hayworth LB Tennessee
8(194) Willie Green WR Mississippi
8(203) Roman Fortin G San Diego State
9(229) Jack Linn T West Virginia
10(258) Bill Miller WR Illinois State
11(285) Reginald Warnsley RB Southern Mississippi
12(313) Robert Claiborne WR San Diego State

1989
1(3) Barry Sanders RB Oklahoma State
2(30) John Ford WR Virginia
3(59) Mike Utley G Washington State
4(86) Ray Crockett DB Baylor
5(115) Lawrence Pete DT Nebraska
6(141) Rodney Peete QB USC
7(170) Jerry Woods DB Northern Michigan
8(197) Chris Parker DT West Virginia
9(226) Derek MacCready DE Ohio State
10(253) Jason Phillips WR Houston
11(282) Keith Karpinski LB Penn State
12(309) James Cribbs DE Memphis State

1988
1(3) Bennie Blades DB Miami (FL)
2(29) Chris Spielman LB Ohio State
2(32) Pat Carter TE Florida State
3(58) Ray Roundtree WR Penn State
4(85) William White DB Ohio State
5(111) Eric Andolsek G Louisiana State
6(142) Carl Painter RB Hampton
7(169) Jeff James WR Stanford
8(196) Gary Hadd DE Minnesota
9(223) Kip Corrington DB Texas A&M
9(234) Todd Irvin T Mississippi
10(254) Paco Craig WR UCLA
11(281) Danny McCoin QB Cincinnati
1987
1(7) Reggie Rogers DE Washington
3(63) Jerry Ball DT Southern Methodist
4(92) Garland Rivers DB Michigan
6(148) Danny Lockett LB Arizona
7(175) Dan Saleamua DT Arizona State
8(203) Dennis Gibson LB Iowa State
9(230) Rick Calhoun RB Fullerton State
10(259) Raynard Brown WR South Carolina
11(286) Brian Siverling TE Penn State
12(315)Gary Lee WR Georgia Tech
1986
1(12) Chuck Long QB Iowa
2(29) Gary James RB Louisiana State
3(69) Joe Milnichik T North Carolina State
4(92) Devon Mitchell DB Iowa
5(119) Oscar Smith RB Nicholls State
8(205) Allyn Griffin WR Wyoming
9(231) Lyle Pickens DB Colorado
10(258) Tracy Johnson LB Morningside
11(290) Leland Melvin WR Richmond
12(317) Allan Durden DB Arizona



You tell me if the Sanders era Lions were a well run organization. I see a few nice picks other than Sanders, but folks keep saying the Lions did not win anything with Barry. What did he have around him? I think the argument for Bush is not that he would win games all by himself, but he would change the complexion of our offense all by himself. Teams would have to account for him and AJ. I'm not in the Bush or bust camp. If we can get a good trade down and still get Ferguson or some defensive help them I'll be on board. But we better make sure we know what we are doing on draft day no matter who we pick.
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Old 12-27-2005   #12
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Perhaps the Texans can look at the Lions with Barry Sanders and learn from their mistakes and not repeat them here in Houston.
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Old 12-27-2005   #13
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I do recall a team that took the best RB in college real high on the draft before. I recall it involved Steve Largent going to the Seahawks and a TE by the name of Oscar Giles going to the Bucs. It was the Houston Oilers who drafted Earl Campbell. Although Steve Largent and Oscar Giles had good careers none took their team to the AFC championship.

Isn't ironic that another Houston team has a chance at the best RB in the draft again?
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Old 12-27-2005   #14
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Quote:
To those who want Reggie Bush...
I have two words...Barry Sanders.
Bad analogy. The Lions organization sucks now and sucked then. Of course you can't build a winner around one player.

What we are hoping is that Reggie Bush is ONE OF the last pieces of the puzzle, much like Emmitt Smith was ONE OF the last pieces of the Cowboy puzzle that led to 3 Super Bowl trophies....
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Old 12-27-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
The Lions lack of progress during the Sanders years is an indictment of the teams inability to assemble the necessary talent around Barry Sanders to get the job done. You can't blame Barry because the Lions consistently made poor choices in the draft and hired a parade of boobs to coach their team.
I do not blame Barry Sanders and honestly believe he was one of the best backs to ever play the game. I am simply making the statement that teams win championships, one player cannot be a team's savior, and that our organization has begun to mirror that of the Lions for some of the very reasons you mentioned. This organization has been spotty at best in both the draft and free agency, reaching on some players and not properly utilizing those that we obtain. It was more of a word of caution to all those who think the signing of Bush will usher in a period of the Texans dominance over the NFL, where Lombardi trophies seem rain from the skies. Unless we see significant improvement from the front office we may indeed end up looking more like those Lions than we would like to. As I said before I would not be upset if we did in fact pick Bush, I just believe all options should be explored without the pick simply being a foregone conclusion.
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Old 12-27-2005   #16
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Apologies. Houston traded swapped with Tampa to get Earl at the #1 spot in 78. Man that makes me not want to trade down.
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Old 12-27-2005   #17
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So after the Texans draft Reggie Bush they need to continue to have good drafts afterwards. Point taken.
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Old 12-27-2005   #18
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this is a really bad arguement.

I guess the Colts shouldve just traded down when they picked manning. how many rings does he have? 0

obviously 1 player cant win a championship, so trading down is the way to go! the colts and lions wouldve been so much better off if they had traded their #1 and #3 picks because those guys just didnt help the team as much as 2-3 later picks wouldve!

brilliant
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Old 12-27-2005   #19
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QBs have a bigger role than any other position on offense.

Compared to the QB, the RB is just a low-level executive.
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Old 12-27-2005   #20
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Originally Posted by gg no re
QBs have a bigger role than any other position on offense.

Compared to the QB, the RB is just a low-level executive.
I disagree. When half the plays you call in the course of the season are running plays they are more equal in importance than that.

Barry Sanders never won a Super Bowl for Detroit which (outside this thread - no offense TAddict) is always thrown up as a reason why we shouldn't draft Reggie Bush. Barry Sanders didn't have a QB in his time.

Well Dan Marino never won one either and guess what he lacked? That's right, no running back to speak of. What happens to (most) QB's who lack a running game is remarkably similar to what you see with star RB's. Lots of stats and not enough wins. No trophies.
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