Te - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

run-david-run · 12-19-2005

One of the misconceptions I'm seeing on this board regard the TE position. People seem to think that simply getting a better TE will result in our offense being much better, but its not quite that simple. Willie Roaf was hurt for the first few games of the season and Tony Gonzalez's production fell way off. What this means is that even if we draft the next coming of Tony Gonzalez, it wont matter until we get some protection and allow our TE's to go out into routes instead of blocking. I think that poeple we currently have such as Rivers and possibly Joppru can do the job, if they are incoporated in the offense, the only way that happens is if we get O-line help. What this means is that IF we do go after D'Brick or Winston, etc... not only will they help Carr with the weapons he does have now (Aj, Gaff), they will also allow us to exploit the TE position even more...

**Double Barrel** · 12-19-2005

It all starts with line play. It's the fundamental nature of solid football. There's an old saying about games being won or lost in the trenches. All the skill players in the world mean nothing if they have no holes to run through or the QB has no protection. Football 101.

That being said, I still wouldn't mind having a solid, well-rounded TE. With the option of both offering pass protection and WR capabilities (in a bigger body), it's a position that can offer you a lot of versatility.

I remember when the Oilers use to run a pure run and shoot offense, and had no TE or FB on the roster. It really limited what they could do and how they matched up against certain defenses. The lack of these positions as options is what eventually ended the reign of the pure "chuck and duck" offense.

**beerlover** · 12-19-2005

I was impressed with Rivers this weekend, Bennie Joppru we can only hope. I'll tell you what I feel the Texans need is a go to - over the middle - sure handed = excellent route runner. I've watched this kid from Oregon State for a couple years now and he is the real deal, ideal #2 WR. with AJ the playmaker and Mathis the speed burner to stretch the field Mike Hass could work underneath and provide David a target inside the hash marks. He is a Steve Largent clutch type of WR & would help open up and balance the offense. I would also like the Texans to continue working Rivers into sets, this guy reminds me of a lean DE type body with punishing potential I think he is still just raw.

run-david-run · 12-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover

I was impressed with Rivers this weekend, Bennie Joppru we can only hope. I'll tell you what I feel the Texans need is a go to - over the middle - sure handed = excellent route runner. I've watched this kid from Oregon State for a couple years now and he is the real deal, ideal #2 WR. with AJ the playmaker and Mathis the speed burner to stretch the field Mike Hass could work underneath and provide David a target inside the hash marks. He is a Steve Largent clutch type of WR & would help open up and balance the offense. I would also like the Texans to continue working Rivers into sets, this guy reminds me of a lean DE type body with punishing potential I think he is still just raw.

Hass is one of the top rated Wr's in the draft, I doubt we could draft him...

LORK 88 · 12-20-2005

I agree, a top O Line obviously helps out a TE greatly, but when your TEs are Matt Murphy and Mark Bruener, well, theres an improvement just drafting one!!! Houston just needs a TE who can catch and block and is athletic enough to do something on offense. Tim Day, Dominique Byrd, and Anthony Fasano all would be great pickups in the draft, and all would come during or after the 3rd round.

J-Storm · 12-20-2005

I've been an advocate for a TE ever since Joppru went down again with injury. I'm not asking for the next Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap or Jeremy Shockey but something 1/2 as good would have to be better than what we have surely! We had a shot @ 1 last year in Heath Miller and look what happened there

Seeing as we don't get a lot of coverage of college ball here in Australia could some people give me their opinions/insights into some of these guys listed below that I wouldn't mind perspectives of:
1. Marcedes Lewis (UCLA)
2. Dominique Byrd (Southern Cal)
3. Tim Day (Oregon)
4. Leonard Pope (Georgia)
5. Charles Davis (Purdue)

Thanks in advance for any help...

**eriadoc** · 12-20-2005

I have not been impressed with Rivers. His catch-to-drop ratio has to be the worst in the NFL, I swear. He has stone hands and Bruener isn't much better. The problem with this team, as someone stated above, is our line play. If this line was a solid unit, then Billy Miller could still be doing well here. Granted, you might want a better TE that can block better than he, but the blocking issue wouldn't have been so paramount if our line were better. Hopefully, Joppru can come back this year and show that he belongs in the NFL and can block and catch.

run-david-run · 12-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriadoc

I have not been impressed with Rivers. His catch-to-drop ratio has to be the worst in the NFL, I swear. He has stone hands and Bruener isn't much better. The problem with this team, as someone stated above, is our line play. If this line was a solid unit, then Billy Miller could still be doing well here. Granted, you might want a better TE that can block better than he, but the blocking issue wouldn't have been so paramount if our line were better. Hopefully, Joppru can come back this year and show that he belongs in the NFL and can block and catch.

I would have said the same thing about Rivers in the beginning of the season, but he has been way better recently. I hope Jopru can come back and take over as our # 1 TE, but the most important part about having a TE is using him, that means having the ability to have your O-Linemen go one-on-one with D-Linemen, something we are not even close to having.

**eriadoc** · 12-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by run-david-run

I would have said the same thing about Rivers in the beginning of the season, but he has been way better recently. I hope Jopru can come back and take over as our # 1 TE, but the most important part about having a TE is using him, that means having the ability to have your O-Linemen go one-on-one with D-Linemen, something we are not even close to having.

He's been better recently, in terms of getting out in patterns and getting the ball thrown to him more frequently than earlier in the season. He dropped another, very easy, pass again versus the Cardinals, though. That's what I'm referring to. I just have a pet peeve about receivers dropping easy passes. That's what they get paid to do - receive.

El Tejano · 12-20-2005

Man, Dave Thomas.

Coach C. · 12-20-2005

TE or H-Backs are essential to the NFL now due to the mixes of Zone coverages and need to exploit mismatches. I personally dont think we need to draft a TE. Teyo Johnson- Big Receiving TE in the same mold as a poor man's Gates
Chris Baker- a blocking/receiving TE that has just enough speed to stretch the zone.
These two FAs could be interesting and then we would cut Murphy. That would five us Bruener- best blocking TE in the game, Johnson/Baker- receiving threat, Jopporu- who knows other than good at getting injured and Rivers- has been ok since we have started throwing to the TE more.

**Kaiser Toro** · 12-20-2005

Rivers has been solid on Special Teams.

**eriadoc** · 12-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

Rivers has been solid on Special Teams.

I won't disagree with that. I've seen him bust up some wedges and I dig ST performers - those guys bust their butts. I like the guy; I just can't stand seeing our receivers (whoever it may be) dropping easy passes.

bdiddy · 12-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by run-david-run

One of the misconceptions I'm seeing on this board regard the TE position. People seem to think that simply getting a better TE will result in our offense being much better, but its not quite that simple. Willie Roaf was hurt for the first few games of the season and Tony Gonzalez's production fell way off. What this means is that even if we draft the next coming of Tony Gonzalez, it wont matter until we get some protection and allow our TE's to go out into routes instead of blocking. I think that poeple we currently have such as Rivers and possibly Joppru can do the job, if they are incoporated in the offense, the only way that happens is if we get O-line help. What this means is that IF we do go after D'Brick or Winston, etc... not only will they help Carr with the weapons he does have now (Aj, Gaff), they will also allow us to exploit the TE position even more...

I have posted this before and will admit I am an ND fan so I am slightly biased, however, I think Anthony Fasano would be perfect for the Texans. He is a very good blocker and has great hands. He is 6-4, 260 lbs., with decent speed for the position. Fasano is the prototype TE for a pro-style offense. I also believe he could be available as late as the third round allowing the Texans to address other needs earlier in the draft.

Coach C. · 12-21-2005

I doubt Fasano goes before R4.

tsip · 12-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Tejano

Man, Dave Thomas.

...good choice--catches everything (including going deep and over the middle), good blocker, and good runner after the catch plus has decent size-

Coach C. · 12-21-2005

Dave Thomas out of UT is also likely to not get grabbed up before R4. Still dont think we need a TE, but Thomas would not be a bad choice reminds me a little of Jason Witten

El Tejano · 01-06-2006

I think after the game we all saw who is the #1 TE in the country. Dave Thomas better be wearing a Texan uniform this season. Dave Thomas - Open all day all night.

Grid · 01-06-2006

Vernon Davis... we could get him in the first with a trade down.

Here is a thread on him with some Movies

Its a shame that the KC trade for Herm Edwards looks like it isnt gonna go through.. if KC had given them their first rounder.. NY would have been the perfect candidate for a trade down. #4 and #20 pick.

oh well.

bubbajaxonbrown · 01-06-2006

Don't forget, Matt Herrian (Nebraska) was one of the top prospects at the beginning of the year. He got hurt early in the season and had to rehab. He is a Senior and has not applied for a Med.-RS. If he performs well in combines I wouldn't mind taking him, Lewis, Byrd, Thomas, or any TE worth a d***.

12-20-2005	#5
LORK 88 Wreck'em Ŧech! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Tech Age: 26 Posts: 1,205 Rep Power: 201	I agree, a top O Line obviously helps out a TE greatly, but when your TEs are Matt Murphy and Mark Bruener, well, theres an improvement just drafting one!!! Houston just needs a TE who can catch and block and is athletic enough to do something on offense. Tim Day, Dominique Byrd, and Anthony Fasano all would be great pickups in the draft, and all would come during or after the 3rd round. __________________

12-20-2005	#6
J-Storm Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Central West NSW, Australia... Age: 36 Posts: 254 Rep Power: 0	I've been an advocate for a TE ever since Joppru went down again with injury. I'm not asking for the next Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap or Jeremy Shockey but something 1/2 as good would have to be better than what we have surely! We had a shot @ 1 last year in Heath Miller and look what happened there Seeing as we don't get a lot of coverage of college ball here in Australia could some people give me their opinions/insights into some of these guys listed below that I wouldn't mind perspectives of: 1. Marcedes Lewis (UCLA) 2. Dominique Byrd (Southern Cal) 3. Tim Day (Oregon) 4. Leonard Pope (Georgia) 5. Charles Davis (Purdue) Thanks in advance for any help... __________________ "And if you're not down with that, we've got 2 words for ya - 'Sck It!'..."*

12-20-2005	#12
Kaiser Toro Native Mod Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Straight Outta Austin Age: 43 Posts: 15,887 Rep Power: 19756	Rivers has been solid on Special Teams. __________________ Texans 2012: Kidz II Men

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12-19-2005	#1
run-david-run Hall of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The University of Texas Age: 24 Posts: 3,370 Rep Power: 1329	Te One of the misconceptions I'm seeing on this board regard the TE position. People seem to think that simply getting a better TE will result in our offense being much better, but its not quite that simple. Willie Roaf was hurt for the first few games of the season and Tony Gonzalez's production fell way off. What this means is that even if we draft the next coming of Tony Gonzalez, it wont matter until we get some protection and allow our TE's to go out into routes instead of blocking. I think that poeple we currently have such as Rivers and possibly Joppru can do the job, if they are incoporated in the offense, the only way that happens is if we get O-line help. What this means is that IF we do go after D'Brick or Winston, etc... not only will they help Carr with the weapons he does have now (Aj, Gaff), they will also allow us to exploit the TE position even more... __________________ Andre Johnson is The Answer

12-19-2005	#2
Double Barrel Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Section: Gridiron, Texas Age: 46 Posts: 27,056 Rep Power: 81571	It all starts with line play. It's the fundamental nature of solid football. There's an old saying about games being won or lost in the trenches. All the skill players in the world mean nothing if they have no holes to run through or the QB has no protection. Football 101. That being said, I still wouldn't mind having a solid, well-rounded TE. With the option of both offering pass protection and WR capabilities (in a bigger body), it's a position that can offer you a lot of versatility. I remember when the Oilers use to run a pure run and shoot offense, and had no TE or FB on the roster. It really limited what they could do and how they matched up against certain defenses. The lack of these positions as options is what eventually ended the reign of the pure "chuck and duck" offense. __________________ "FOOTBALL IS ONLY A DIVERSION." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS In Memoriam - 20 little angels

12-19-2005	#3
beerlover Site Contributor Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 11,357 Rep Power: 15075	I was impressed with Rivers this weekend, Bennie Joppru we can only hope. I'll tell you what I feel the Texans need is a go to - over the middle - sure handed = excellent route runner. I've watched this kid from Oregon State for a couple years now and he is the real deal, ideal #2 WR. with AJ the playmaker and Mathis the speed burner to stretch the field Mike Hass could work underneath and provide David a target inside the hash marks. He is a Steve Largent clutch type of WR & would help open up and balance the offense. I would also like the Texans to continue working Rivers into sets, this guy reminds me of a lean DE type body with punishing potential I think he is still just raw.

12-20-2005	#7
eriadoc Texan-American Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 15,322 Rep Power: 69440	I have not been impressed with Rivers. His catch-to-drop ratio has to be the worst in the NFL, I swear. He has stone hands and Bruener isn't much better. The problem with this team, as someone stated above, is our line play. If this line was a solid unit, then Billy Miller could still be doing well here. Granted, you might want a better TE that can block better than he, but the blocking issue wouldn't have been so paramount if our line were better. Hopefully, Joppru can come back this year and show that he belongs in the NFL and can block and catch.

12-20-2005	#10
El Tejano Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 9,748 Rep Power: 6842	Man, Dave Thomas.

12-20-2005	#11
Coach C. Hall of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SE Houston Posts: 1,422 Rep Power: 10	TE or H-Backs are essential to the NFL now due to the mixes of Zone coverages and need to exploit mismatches. I personally dont think we need to draft a TE. Teyo Johnson- Big Receiving TE in the same mold as a poor man's Gates Chris Baker- a blocking/receiving TE that has just enough speed to stretch the zone. These two FAs could be interesting and then we would cut Murphy. That would five us Bruener- best blocking TE in the game, Johnson/Baker- receiving threat, Jopporu- who knows other than good at getting injured and Rivers- has been ok since we have started throwing to the TE more.

12-21-2005	#15
Coach C. Hall of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SE Houston Posts: 1,422 Rep Power: 10	I doubt Fasano goes before R4.

01-06-2006	#18
El Tejano Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 9,748 Rep Power: 6842	I think after the game we all saw who is the #1 TE in the country. Dave Thomas better be wearing a Texan uniform this season. Dave Thomas - Open all day all night.

01-06-2006	#19
Grid Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,299 Rep Power: 2271	Vernon Davis... we could get him in the first with a trade down. Here is a thread on him with some Movies Its a shame that the KC trade for Herm Edwards looks like it isnt gonna go through.. if KC had given them their first rounder.. NY would have been the perfect candidate for a trade down. #4 and #20 pick. oh well.

01-06-2006	#20
bubbajaxonbrown Rookie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Slaton, TX Age: 35 Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	Don't forget, Matt Herrian (Nebraska) was one of the top prospects at the beginning of the year. He got hurt early in the season and had to rehab. He is a Senior and has not applied for a Med.-RS. If he performs well in combines I wouldn't mind taking him, Lewis, Byrd, Thomas, or any TE worth a d***.

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