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Old 12-19-2005   #1
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Default Is this O-line weird or what?

Has anyone who has watched football for any length of time seen an offensive line so remarkably good at one thing and so bad at another?

The Texans line can open holes for DD, Morency, or Wells, actually get good push and move the defensive line around, and yet still not able to pass protect long enough to allow downfield passing routes to develop. (If I never see another quick hitch for the rest of my life, I wouldn't complain.)

On the surface, ir appears that the linemen are physically strong enough, or should I say . . talented physically for running plays, but are lacking the talent upstairs to "execute"()the protections on passing downs. Every team shuffles its lineup throughout the season, and it's got to be more than just coaching.

But after watching the Bears/Falcons game last night, I'm beginning to believe the problem lies with neither with the line, or the coaching. I watched Kyle Orton (a rookie 4th rounder, btw) do some things that reminded me of another QB of another team . . holding onto the ball, pocket awareness, etc, that made the offensive line looking real bad. Then, in the 2nd half, Rex Grossman comes in at QB, and all of a sudden, the OL plays pretty good.

I gotta stop. I think I just got depressed.
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Old 12-19-2005   #2
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Originally Posted by Marcus
Has anyone who has watched football for any length of time seen an offensive line so remarkably good at one thing and so bad at another?

The Texans line can open holes for DD, Morency, or Wells, actually get good push and move the defensive line around, and yet still not able to pass protect long enough to allow downfield passing routes to develop. (If I never see another quick hitch for the rest of my life, I wouldn't complain.)

On the surface, ir appears that the linemen are physically strong enough, or should I say . . talented physically for running plays, but are lacking the talent upstairs to "execute"()the protections on passing downs. Every team shuffles its lineup throughout the season, and it's got to be more than just coaching.

But after watching the Bears/Falcons game last night, I'm beginning to believe the problem lies with neither with the line, or the coaching. I watched Kyle Orton (a rookie 4th rounder, btw) do some things that reminded me of another QB of another team . . holding onto the ball, pocket awareness, etc, that made the offensive line looking real bad. Then, in the 2nd half, Rex Grossman comes in at QB, and all of a sudden, the OL plays pretty good.

I gotta stop. I think I just got depressed.

Wasn't Wells' YPC something like 3.1?
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Old 12-19-2005   #3
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Originally Posted by Marcus
Has anyone who has watched football for any length of time seen an offensive line so remarkably good at one thing and so bad at another?

The Texans line can open holes for DD, Morency, or Wells, actually get good push and move the defensive line around, and yet still not able to pass protect long enough to allow downfield passing routes to develop. (If I never see another quick hitch for the rest of my life, I wouldn't complain.)

On the surface, ir appears that the linemen are physically strong enough, or should I say . . talented physically for running plays, but are lacking the talent upstairs to "execute"()the protections on passing downs. Every team shuffles its lineup throughout the season, and it's got to be more than just coaching.

But after watching the Bears/Falcons game last night, I'm beginning to believe the problem lies with neither with the line, or the coaching. I watched Kyle Orton (a rookie 4th rounder, btw) do some things that reminded me of another QB of another team . . holding onto the ball, pocket awareness, etc, that made the offensive line looking real bad. Then, in the 2nd half, Rex Grossman comes in at QB, and all of a sudden, the OL plays pretty good.

I gotta stop. I think I just got depressed.
It is amazing isn't it? Does anyone really think that this OLine is that bad? They started with different teams and commanded the salaries that we gave them. Yet when they get here they are horrible? We have a QB that has always been sacked even when he was at Fresno State he was sacked in a quick strike offense at the tune of every ~9.5 attempts.

Our OLine coach/OC had Kerry Collins and the most he got sacked in three years was 27 times. Collins is not the most fleet footed person. It all points to Carr's inability to read defense at the line, inability to go through progressions and his fear of staying in the pocket.
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Old 12-19-2005   #4
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
Wasn't Wells' YPC something like 3.1?
Yes. He got the lions share of that in the first half. Once Pendry pulled everything back in and started trying to "preserve the win" (what it looked like to me) everything on the offense became less effective. For all of my criticism of David Carr I have to say that in the first half he ran a better version of our tinker toy offense than Joe Pendry does. We ate some clock at the end that added carries (but not yards) to what Wells had done in the first half.

I can only make a best guess here but I believe that if David Carr had been allowed to continue running our offense the way he had been the Wells/Morency tandem would have performed much better in the second half. We had 119 yards rushing and yes Wells averaged 3.1 yards per carry. Add Morency's numbers to Wells and you get a 3.6 yard per carry average for the day which is better than or equal to 5 of Davis's starts this year.
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Old 12-19-2005   #5
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Yes. He got the lions share of that in the first half. Once Pendry pulled everything back in and started trying to "preserve the win" (what it looked like to me) everything on the offense became less effective. For all of my criticism of David Carr I have to say that in the first half he ran a better version of our tinker toy offense than Joe Pendry does. We ate some clock at the end that added carries (but not yards) to what Wells had done in the first half.

I can only make a best guess here but I believe that if David Carr had been allowed to continue running our offense the way he had been the Wells/Morency tandem would have performed much better in the second half. We had 119 yards rushing and yes Wells averaged 3.1 yards per carry. Add Morency's numbers to Wells and you get a 3.6 yard per carry average for the day which is better than or equal to 5 of Davis's starts this year.
Yes, but Davis did not play against a less than inspired Cards Defense. Nor did he play in a game this year where we led most of the game.
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Old 12-19-2005   #6
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I think the o-line under performs for their talent level; I think most of our lineman are worse now than they were two years ago. I wouldn't give the coaching staff any kind of slack on the play of the o-line. It is my opinion the coaches are the root cause of this regression.

I just don't understand how the coaches game plan - I wonder what the they were thinking when they wouldn't use our 6 lineman "jumbo" package on 4th and 1, but they used it at the end of the game while running out the clock.
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Old 12-19-2005   #7
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To me it was kind of interesting that in the first half Carr had more controll over what he was allowed to do, even if it was a short passing game plan, and it worked fairly well. Then our coaches turn turtle in the second half and take back controll and all of a sudden we can't move the ball. Go figure. Make no mistake about it though, our coaches use that short quick passing game because the O-line stinks. I agree with the posetr who talked about how wierd they are in that they run block fairly well and yet could hold out a high school defense on a pass rush. MOST of this I lay at the coaching staffs door step.
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Old 12-19-2005   #8
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Yes, but Davis did not play against a less than inspired Cards Defense. Nor did he play in a game this year where we led most of the game.
The Cards defense wasn't impressive but Davis did play in a game where we led most of the way. He played against the Rams where we led until the 4th quarter (24-3 at the half, 24-10 going into the 4th quarter). The Rams run defense is 29th and the Cards are 16th so I think those are very similar circumstances. Not exact but similar.

Davis had 25 carries, 78 yards, and a 3.1 average that day. He also caught 3 passes for another 42 yards. Very "Wells-like" numbers I think.

It doesn't really show much. Stats don't tell the whole story but those are similar days.
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Old 12-19-2005   #9
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The Cards defense wasn't impressive but Davis did play in a game where we led most of the way. He played against the Rams where we led until the 4th quarter (24-3 at the half, 24-10 going into the 4th quarter). The Rams run defense is 29th and the Cards are 16th so I think those are very similar circumstances. Not exact but similar.

Davis had 25 carries, 78 yards, and a 3.1 average that day. He also caught 3 passes for another 42 yards. Very "Wells-like" numbers I think.

It doesn't really show much. Stats don't tell the whole story but those are similar days.
Interesting take from a high level point of view, but if you get granular with it Davis had 10 rushes for 51 yards in the second half and OT. He did his job in helpng us protect the lead. The breakdown was on Defense.
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Old 12-19-2005   #10
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Interesting take from a high level point of view, but if you get granular with it Davis had 10 rushes for 51 yards in the second half and OT. He did his job in helpng us protect the lead. The breakdown was on Defense.
True. In this game Wells did his real damage in the first half (like pretty much everyone on the Texans offense) so it's hard to compare the two games. I think Wells could have done that (against St Louis) and Davis could have run on the Cardinals in the same manner Wells did yesterday. Davis probably would have become less effective like Wells did as Pendry reigned it all in to protect the lead and eat the clock.

We just downshifted after halftime yesterday. Only a "make something from nothing" kind of back was going to get a lot of yards in the second half and no, I don't mean for that to slide into the "He who must not be named" zone.
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Old 12-19-2005   #11
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I like how Morency showed his great quickness and explosiveness and didn't see many touches again...we can't have too much of that around here. We showed him.
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Old 12-19-2005   #12
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I've said it beofre, it's pretty obvious that the line does not want to play for Carr.
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Old 12-19-2005   #13
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I've said it before, it's pretty obvious that the line does not want to play for Carr.
You know what? The more I think about that, the less preposterous it becomes.
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Old 12-19-2005   #14
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I've said it beofre, it's pretty obvious that the line does not want to play for Carr.
I agree with that.
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Old 12-19-2005   #15
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I agree with that.
Of course you would, that really isn't a surprise. Has anyone talked to oline to get some factual quotes about them not wanting to play for Carr? I didn't think so. Please keep defending this horrible oline and we will consistantly be picking in the top 10 every year. Casserly thinks the same way as you do.
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Old 12-19-2005   #16
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Of course you would, that really isn't a surprise. Has anyone talked to oline to get some factual quotes about them not wanting to play for Carr? I didn't think so. Please keep defending this horrible oline and we will consistantly be picking in the top 10 every year. Casserly thinks the same way as you do.
So you have a problem with me agreeing with one's opinion. When I have defended the OLine's pass blocking? I have been adamant that I do not want Cass in my posts. Come on SES your better than this, check the emotions at the door.
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Old 12-19-2005   #17
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So you have a problem with me agreeing with one's opinion. When I have defended the OLine's pass blocking? I have been adamant that I do not want Cass in my posts. Come on SES your better than this, check the emotions at the door.
What can I say, I am an emotion guy when I see things quite differently. I've seen you badger Carr repeatedly in several posts after he led them to a victory yesterday. I see no reason to rain on his parade when he commanded a team like that to a victory. He marched that team up and down the field when he was given the reigns, there is no denying that.
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Old 12-19-2005   #18
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Originally Posted by MightyTExan
I've said it beofre, it's pretty obvious that the line does not want to play for Carr.
If the OL is not motivated by the big fat paycheck each receives, then I am all for replacing each and every one of them.
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Old 12-19-2005   #19
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What can I say, I am an emotion guy when I see things quite differently. I've seen you badger Carr repeatedly in several posts after he led them to a victory yesterday. I see no reason to rain on his parade when he commanded a team like that to a victory. He marched that team up and down the field when he was given the reigns, there is no denying that.
I have been consistently critical of the guy over the last year and do agree that he got the job done in the first half. However, I do feel that we could pay someone minimum money to get that done. I will tone it down on Carr as I have done for the last couple of weeks, but I just got tired of the Bush trolls, Davis haters and the fans who want us to lose.
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Old 12-19-2005   #20
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I've said it beofre, it's pretty obvious that the line does not want to play for Carr.
This may be a stupid question, but why doesn't the oline want to play for Carr?
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