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Old 12-12-2005   #1
the_flien_finn
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Default Just Curious Bout Your Opinions

Hello TEXAN fans, from a LIONS fan. I'm curious as to your opinions of David Carr as your starting QB. Both Carr & Harrington were taken quite high in the year of your teams inception in the league. I would have to concede at this point Harrington is a bust: but I believe that the LIONS woes run a lot deeper then Joey Harrington as the problem for the Detroit club. Seriously; I sincerely believe that Matt Millen is the base of the LIONS problems. Mooch did not deserve to be fired, and soime team is going to get a great coach this upcomeing off season.

Your team is possibly looking to get the # 1 draft pick this comeing draft, depending on the results of your last 3 games. But hey.........you guys got some of the hottest cheerleaders in the NFL to entertain you. IMHO, that makes the TEXANS Head & Shoulders above the LIONS Organization!!!!!
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Old 12-12-2005   #2
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thats a big question right now.. Carr is coming to the end of his rookie contract this offseason.. however we have the option to pay 8mil and extend it for 3 more seasons.. or there is the possibility that we could renegotiate.. though personally id be careful about that cause the only reason to renegotiate would be to ask him to take less money cause he hasnt performed at an 8 million dollar level.. but if I was Carr.. and I had the choice of making less here in Houston, or less somewhere else.. id go take less somewhere else where i wouldnt break any sack records.

I think we will give him the extention though... alot of people here and in the organization still think he can do the job well if he had an Oline.
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Old 12-12-2005   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_flien_finn
Hello TEXAN fans, from a LIONS fan. I'm curious as to your opinions of David Carr as your starting QB. Both Carr & Harrington were taken quite high in the year of your teams inception in the league. I would have to concede at this point Harrington is a bust: but I believe that the LIONS woes run a lot deeper then Joey Harrington as the problem for the Detroit club. Seriously; I sincerely believe that Matt Millen is the base of the LIONS problems. Mooch did not deserve to be fired, and soime team is going to get a great coach this upcomeing off season.

Your team is possibly looking to get the # 1 draft pick this comeing draft, depending on the results of your last 3 games. But hey.........you guys got some of the hottest cheerleaders in the NFL to entertain you. IMHO, that makes the TEXANS Head & Shoulders above the LIONS Organization!!!!!
Always a hot topic on this board is the Carr discussion. My view point on Carr is, as I just posted on another thread, OK maybe he is not a guy that can carry a team, ala Brett Favre or John Elway, but surrounded by the right talent, IMO, he can lead the Texans to the promised land.

There are many that believe he lacks the basic skills, mainly reading defenses, to be successful in the NFL. They also mention something called "pocket presence." The problem with that view is, there have not been enough pockets for this guy to throw from to learn pocket pool or whatever.
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Old 12-12-2005   #4
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Originally Posted by jerek
At the risk of being redundant (this has been debated plenty elsewhere on this board before the Reggie Bush spam virus hit), I will say that I like Carr and think he needs to be given at least one more year, hopefully with a different coach who will place the appropriate personnel around him. Namely:

- Good O-line
- Mathis in at receiver
- Maybe another WR (I think Gaff is plenty good just under-utilized)
- TE?

Carr has looked rough at times this year but also has looked good when he can compose himself and make it a series without being leveled. He is tough as hell, has a big arm, and obviously can be valuable as a scrambling QB as well.

As much as there are people who want to blame him for Houston's problems, I believe that it would be shortsighted to do so. Give him another year with a new system and a pocket made out of something besides Play-Do, and see what he can do.
Well said J!
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Old 12-12-2005   #5
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Well, if Capers is gone this off season; Mooch might be a viable solution for your H/C. Although; he likes to play musical RBs; if the TEXANS draft Reggie Bush with your first pick; a one two punch of Davis & Bush could make opposing Ds really respect the Houston running game; thus taking a lot of pressure off from Carr and the passing game & open up the play action pass a lot more. If you guys get Mooch as your H/C; I will definately switch allegiances; cuz I don't see the LIONS doing anything unless Millen gets fired in favor of Ron Wolfe or Jimmy Johnson.
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Old 12-12-2005   #6
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My view on Carr is well documented. I have no problem having him back if we pay him a couple of points above market value.

The average salary for an NFL QB is 2.496 million, I would use this number as a benchmark for a renegotiated base on an incentive laden contract.
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Old 12-13-2005   #7
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I'm with Kaiser Toro on this one, and I think "most" of the fans here feel the same way.

While Carr is not the MAIN reason behind our team's woeful season...he's also not really showing that he can take the team on his back and gut out the tight win either. We've got three gamers on our team right now, guys who you can trust week in and week out for solid, stellar performance: Domanick Davis, Dunta Robinson, and Jerome Mathis. Davis and Mathis are pretty much single-handedly putting us into potentially game-winning spots each week. And Dunta is causing teams to throw to the other side of the field, and he's a tackling machine on the run to his side.

Carr should be brought back with a deal that doesn't say we're betting the farm on his future here with this team, but also with the kind of pay that communicates we're willing to give him one or two more years under new management to see if he's got the goods or not.

Harrington is just a weird situation. Looked pretty good coming out of college, but I think your whole team is entirely mis-matched with its roster of players...and YES you are correct: That one is on Millen.

The Ford Family, as I have learned, is too loyal to people like Millen...and they go with their guy far longer than most other teams would. Our owner hired a "consultant," in Dan Reeves...but the jury is still out as to if this is a fake and we're actually seeing the next HC of the Texans. I'd like ot think that with Reeves' health, he's purely a consultant and we won't be seeing Lipitor commercials with Dan Reeves on the sideline of Reliant clutching his chest.
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Old 12-13-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
The average salary for an NFL QB is 2.496 million, I would use this number as a benchmark for a renegotiated base on an incentive laden contract.
That is for all QB's--the average for starting QB's is $5.15 mil. That's a more realistic benchmark to negotiate from. Personally what I would try to negotiate would be a base significantly below the average for starting QB's with a ton of potential performance bonuses giving Carr the opportunity to make more than his current contract, i.e. $9 mil, plus--2 TD's for every INT, $500k, 3500 yds $500k, 4000 yds $1 mil, playoffs $1 mil, etc..
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Old 12-13-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
That is for all QB's--the average for starting QB's is $5.15 mil. That's a more realistic benchmark to negotiate from. Personally what I would try to negotiate would be a base significantly below the average for starting QB's with a ton of potential performance bonuses giving Carr the opportunity to make more than his current contract, i.e. $9 mil, plus--2 TD's for every INT, $500k, 3500 yds $500k, 4000 yds $1 mil, playoffs $1 mil, etc..
I concur.
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Old 12-13-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
That is for all QB's--the average for starting QB's is $5.15 mil. That's a more realistic benchmark to negotiate from. Personally what I would try to negotiate would be a base significantly below the average for starting QB's with a ton of potential performance bonuses giving Carr the opportunity to make more than his current contract, i.e. $9 mil, plus--2 TD's for every INT, $500k, 3500 yds $500k, 4000 yds $1 mil, playoffs $1 mil, etc..
Ditto...I also agree with Vinny's take, that we should try to land a competent veteran to compete with Carr for the starting job. At least make it know in training camp that it is an open competition with Banks and Ragone.
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Old 12-13-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunTexan
Ditto...I also agree with Vinny's take, that we should try to land a competent veteran to compete with Carr for the starting job. At least make it know in training camp that it is an open competition with Banks and Ragone.
Competition wise it is going to have to come from elsewhere. Carr clearly stands out in training camp over Banks or Ragone.
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Old 12-13-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
That is for all QB's--the average for starting QB's is $5.15 mil. That's a more realistic benchmark to negotiate from. Personally what I would try to negotiate would be a base significantly below the average for starting QB's with a ton of potential performance bonuses giving Carr the opportunity to make more than his current contract, i.e. $9 mil, plus--2 TD's for every INT, $500k, 3500 yds $500k, 4000 yds $1 mil, playoffs $1 mil, etc..
I have mixed feelings on this idea. For one, from my understanding the contract has already been written so they can't really change it and I don't know that either side really wants to. It could save the team money or encourage Carr to perform better, but I agree with Jerek that so much of a QB's success depends on the people around him. I think that his deal will stay as it is because the team will have enough other things to worry about this year than renegotiating Carr's deal and it will likely take a lot of time to write a new deal that can both save the team money (unless of course Carr goes off the next year or two) but will still give him enough base salary and everything that he will agree to it. I could be wrong but it is also my understanding that the Texans (and most teams for that matter) don't really like writing contracts with a lot of incentives in the deal. Adding performance incentives can lead to future problems, for instance if a QB gets benched at the end of a blowout game but he wants to keep playing so he can earn another bonus, or if he wants to try to force plays so he can add yards and TDs and get more money, or even if he doesn't actively think about it, it can be on the back of his mind and fans and whoever else will constantly be mentioning such things if his performance isn't great.
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Old 12-13-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorKnolle
I have mixed feelings on this idea. For one, from my understanding the contract has already been written so they can't really change it and I don't know that either side really wants to.
They can write whatever new contract they want to. Going with the existing contract is one option--writing a new one is another. You can always re-write a contract or do a new one if all the parties agree.
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Old 12-13-2005   #14
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
They can write whatever new contract they want to. Going with the existing contract is one option--writing a new one is another. You can always re-write a contract or do a new one if all the parties agree.
Agreed, hence:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorKnolle
I think that his deal will stay as it is because the team will have enough other things to worry about this year than renegotiating Carr's deal and it will likely take a lot of time to write a new deal that can both save the team money (unless of course Carr goes off the next year or two) but will still give him enough base salary and everything that he will agree to it. I could be wrong but it is also my understanding that the Texans (and most teams for that matter) don't really like writing contracts with a lot of incentives in the deal.
It sounded like some people were under the impression that a deal had not been written other than we would pay Carr $5.5 or $8 million to stay here for another 2 or 3 years respectively and that we'd work out terms to that new contract, so I was trying to clear that up.
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