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Old 12-12-2005   #1
David's Busted Carr
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Default Bush vs. Oline in the draft...

I ran across this info. and found it VERY interesting. The Indy Colts have arguable the BEST OL in the NFL. Look at where their lineman were drafted vs. their skill players...

Manning - 1st rd
Edge-1st rd
Wayne-1st rd
Marvin Harrison -1st rd
Dallas Clark-1st rd


And now thier O line

Jake Scott-4th rd
Jeff Saturday-Undrafted FA
Ryan Ilja -waivers KC Chiefs
Tarik Glenn-1st rd
Ryan Deim 4th rd

The only 1st rounder was their LT Glenn b/c LT is obviously the most difficult position. I personally think Chester Pitts is capable of being a solid LT.

Bottom line. You can teach technique and improve by cohesiveness on for the Oline. You can also improve via free agency.

You cannot teach the skills of a player like Reggie Bush!!! And good luck finding a Reggie Bush type talent in the free agent pool. LOL
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Old 12-12-2005   #2
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I'll post here the same thing I posted there. You take a stud left tackle and build around that. The trickle-down effect of a left tackle allows us to move Pitts to RT, Wiegert back to RG, and McKinney to LG. Draft a center in the middle rounds to compete with Hodgdon and our draft status would be comparable to the Colts. As it is now, we have not drafted a tackle higher than the 3rd round, and Pitts was drafted as a guard. If Pitts can play tackle, then it's a bonus - not something that's obvious at this point, or should even be planned upon.
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Old 12-12-2005   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc
I'll post here the same thing I posted there. You take a stud left tackle and build around that. The trickle-down effect of a left tackle allows us to move Pitts to RT, Wiegert back to RG, and McKinney to LG. Draft a center in the middle rounds to compete with Hodgdon and our draft status would be comparable to the Colts. As it is now, we have not drafted a tackle higher than the 3rd round, and Pitts was drafted as a guard. If Pitts can play tackle, then it's a bonus - not something that's obvious at this point, or should even be planned upon.
I agree. Draft whoever is deemed to be the best OT at draft time (at the moment I'd say Eric Winston), then look to draft an OG in there to replace Wiegert in a year since he's starting to get old and maybe draft a center to compete with Hodgdon. I would cut McKinney since he hasn't been real good and will cost like $4.6 million to keep around but won't cost much to get rid of, and unfortunately Wade is costing a lot and will be here for a year or two, so we can move him inside to OG to compete/rotate with Wiegert and a rookie, then let Wiegert go after next year when his contract is done and our rookie should be ready to shine by then.
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Old 12-12-2005   #4
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The way Bush runs, he may not need an O line!
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Old 12-12-2005   #5
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I think you guys will take D'Brickishaw Ferguson....maybe trade down a couple spots,get more draft picks,so you don't have to pay him #1 money....

Reggie Bush or not.
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Old 12-12-2005   #6
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Bush does NEED an O-line thats the worse comment i have ever heard. He needs 1 more than DD does. Hes not big enough of a back not to have 1.

I think if we improve the O-line then Carr will have more time to throw and Davis will have more lanes. Only 4 RB's have ever rushed for 1000 yards in past 4 years and we have 1 with a bad line. The guy is doing a great job considering his situation. He was rewarded with a 5 yr deal. He is here to stay GET OVER IT!!!!!! If we do draft Bush he will traded to highest Bidder if thats what you are talking about by lets draft bush then all means do it. Sry i needed to vent some of the stuff that is said just makes no sense.
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Old 12-12-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDforTatum26
I think you guys will take D'Brickishaw Ferguson....maybe trade down a couple spots,get more draft picks,so you don't have to pay him #1 money....

Reggie Bush or not.

I agree with your paragraph Ferguson or trade down, or even draft Bush and trade down i dont see any other possible scenario
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Old 12-12-2005   #8
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I think more than 4 backs have rushed for 1000 yards in each of the last 4 years.
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Old 12-12-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royce1054
I agree with your paragraph Ferguson or trade down, or even draft Bush and trade down i dont see any other possible scenario
well what I meant is trade down maybe 2 or 3,4 spots at the most to draft Ferguson....then you get him for less money AND get more draft picks. but thats if the Texans will know for sure that no one will take him.

if other teams are interested in him....I think they will just draft him #1.

Sure Reggie Bush is good....but I think the thing that is killing you guys this season is your O'line:

Carr isn't a bad QB...he was getting better and better until he just gets sack every other play

you have one of the best young WR's in the NFL...Andre Johnson. who doesn't have great numbers because Carr doesnt have time to throw

DD has run for 1,000 yards the last 2 seasons and would have better stats if the O'line made some holes for him.

I don't think you guys have a choice....you gotta go O'line.

maybe get Lewis or Pope (TE) in the 2nd if there isn't any good OL....
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Old 12-12-2005   #10
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each of the past 4 seasons i believe

Alexander, Curtis, DD, and 1 other i can remember his name off the top of my head.
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Old 12-12-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDforTatum26
well what I meant is trade down maybe 2 or 3,4 spots at the most to draft Ferguson....then you get him for less money AND get more draft picks. but thats if the Texans will know for sure that no one will take him.

if other teamns are interested in him....I think they will just draft him #1.

Sure Reggie Bush is good....but I think the thing that is killing you guys this season is your O'line:

Carr isn't a bad QB...he was getting better and better until he just gets sack every other play

you have one of the best young WR's in the NFL...Andre Johnson. who doesn't have great numbers because Carr doesnt have time to throw

DD has run for 1,000 yards the last 2 seasons and would have better stats if the O'line made some holes for him.

I don't think you guys have a choice....you gotta go O'line.

maybe get Lewis or Pope (TE) in the 2nd if there isn't any good OL....
Hey i agree with you. Although Lewis will be a top 25 pick. So if we do trade down and get 2 1st rounders we can get an OL and then get Lewis
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Old 12-12-2005   #12
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Our run blocking is fine. I don't agree with the fact that all of the sudden Davis will go from a 1000-1200 yard back to a 1800 yard back with better linemen. They can block for about 2 or 3 seconds and then they suck. That is why we can do 3 step drops, but not 5 or 7 step drops. You don't need more than 2 or 3 seconds to run the ball through the hole. And I'm also curious as to why everyone thinks that we get no holes. If you get no holes you can't run. He isn't jumping over linemen and running past them. Dominack has been getting plenty of holes and that is why he has been breaking some long runs. His problem is that he can't finish the run.
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Old 12-12-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royce1054
each of the past 4 seasons i believe

Alexander, Curtis, DD, and 1 other i can remember his name off the top of my head.

Alexander, Curtis, Portis, Barber, Tomlinson, Ahman Green. Deuce was on pace too but got hurt this year and Edgerrin James was 11 yards short 3 years ago and didn't play in 2 games.

That is kind of a misleading statistic because there are a lot of good running backs who are in the twilight of their career and a lot of young running backs who will have those statistics, just haven't been in the league long enough
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Old 12-12-2005   #14
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what i meant to say was out of the top 30 Running Backs in the NFL right now, only 4 have rushed for 1,000 yards their first 3 seasons: LaDainian Tomlinson, Clinton Portis, Curtis Martin, and DOMANICK DAVIS.

sry for misleading i was typing off top of my head
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Old 12-12-2005   #15
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Yeah and Edgerrin James would have if he didn't blow out his knee and Shaun Alexander would have if he was the starter his rookie year.

Davis is a solid back, but he is not spectacular. He will give you around 1200 yards rushing and 400 yards receiving. Reggie Bush can give you 1500 yards rushing and 700 yards receiving or 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving.

Do you want a solid player or a gamebreaker?

I want a gamebreaker.
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Old 12-12-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
Yeah and Edgerrin James would have if he didn't blow out his knee and Shaun Alexander would have if he was the starter his rookie year.

Davis is a solid back, but he is not spectacular. He will give you around 1200 yards rushing and 400 yards receiving. Reggie Bush can give you 1500 yards rushing and 700 yards receiving or 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving.

Do you want a solid player or a gamebreaker?

I want a gamebreaker.
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I was actually thinking the same thing. Reggie is a great player, and this game might have sealed up a heisman for him, but he still does not run in between the tackles and when he does, he dances around well before hitting the hole. He may be a good player in the NFL, a Warrick Dunn type, but until he is able to run between the tackles and not just an outside runner, he will not be a very successful running back. He might have highlight runs every once in a while on Sportscenter, but he won't be leading the league in anything.

Tulexan....member that...seems like youve changed your tune....
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Old 12-12-2005   #17
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I want a hard nose player who will run it and not be affraid to hit someone or run to daylight. Davis has that and has been doing good with a horrible O-line. Bush might be better but his durability is in question here. I dont remember him taking any beatings like he would here in Houston. He wont do much more than DD is and thats reality. If DD had an O-line we wouldnt be having this conversation because we would be 8-8 or 9-7 in playoff contention. Carr wouldnt of been sacked 1 million times. DD or the RB position or even Carr or QB position is not the problem. Its in the OL, and O-Coordinator. Thats it. Maybe a TE would help.. I am not even saying draft O-line with the first pick i am saying trade down get some extra picks. Get rid of Babin, Buchannon, Coleman, Bradford, and i cant remember the O-linemans name that his contract is up. Insert Orr in Babins place. Insert Mathis in the WR slot. THen all we have to do is replace the OL, TE, FS, and CB positions. We trade down out of the #1 slot we are gonna get atleast 2 1st rounders and possibly a 3rd. Then we have top pick in 2nd round. So to me that says we have 2 1st, 1 2nd and 3 3rds. We could package those 2 of the 3 3rds and move into the 2nd round. Then we can go O-line with the highest pick. TE with the 2nd 1st round pick. FS and CB with the 2 2nds and the 3rd either DL or OL which ever our coach feels is the best.
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Old 12-12-2005   #18
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ok hold up...pause it... Do you guys actually watch the o-line or do you just listen to announcers and radio shows...Our line has had problems PASS BLOCKING...Domanick Davis has done pretty well, and he is a very good Running back to fill the position until we have the chance to get someone better...and darn it on draft day we may have the opprotunity...You guys are making DD sound like he's a beast...he's not... he's adequate...IMO..YOU CANT RUN IF YOUR LINE DOESN'T RUN BLOCK..DD isn't splitting guys, jumping over tacklers, giving forceful stiff arms, he is running through open holes and making decent yardage after contact...our team isn't one year away from greatness...We have a lack of talent..period...we need more playmakers, and if the texans have a chance to snag one who is supposed to be one of the greatest in the past 20 years, Why shouldn't they take him? he would automatically become the second best player on our offense and maybe the number one big play guy...
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Old 12-12-2005   #19
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You can still get a decent O lineman at the top of the second round.
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Old 12-12-2005   #20
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Listen, I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong about Reggie. I hadn't seen him play too much and made assumptions that were completely incorrect about him. When I actually watched him play I was shocked that everything that I have said negatively about him was wrong. The guy is an absolute gamer who knows how to do one thing, and that is win football games. He puts the team on his back and carries them to victories the very same way that Tracy McGrady does in basketball.

Just like a lot of the anti-Bush people here can't see why the pro-Bush people want him, I can say the same thing. I understand that you don't want to get rid of Dominack Davis. So why do we have to? I understand that the offensive line needs a lot of work. So why don't we spend the remaining or the majority of the remaining first day picks on OL. Pitts has done a pretty good job against some of the better DE's in the league. We can add a RT in the second round and have pretty good bookends for the line. We could probably add a good TE in the third round too. Byrd from USC or the TE from Colorado will probably be available with our 2nd 3rd round pick. Or we could trade both of our 3rd's and get another second.

My draft would be as follows:
1. Bush
2. Best available OT or OG (Scott, Justice, McNeil, Jean Gilles, Thomas)
3. Best available TE (Byrd, Klop)
3. Threat or Slay

Look what you have accomplished with this draft just in the first day

Get a playmaker
Get some help on the line
Get a versatile TE
Get a Safety

That takes care of 3 of our 4 needs (pass rush help is #4) and we get the best player in the draft.
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