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Old 12-11-2005   #1
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Who do we keep from this year's O-line and at what position?

I see Pitts staying and going back to LG along side D'Brick. This should solidify our left side. Hog should be the starting center next year. We cant get rid of Todd Wade because of his contract, but seeing his size and lack of quickness he could make a decent Guard. I think we should then use our second pick on either Johnathon Scott or preferably McNeil out of Auburn to play Right Tackle, depending on wether Scott is willing to play RT.

We then get rid of McKinney and Weigert out of the starting line-up.
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Old 12-11-2005   #2
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Originally Posted by run-david-run
Who do we keep from this year's O-line and at what position?

I see Pitts staying and going back to LG along side D'Brick. This should solidify our left side. Hog should be the starting center next year. We cant get rid of Todd Wade because of his contract, but seeing his size and lack of quickness he could make a decent Guard. I think we should then use our second pick on either Johnathon Scott or preferably McNeil out of Auburn to play Right Tackle, depending on wether Scott is willing to play RT.

We then get rid of McKinney and Weigert out of the starting line-up.
I think Pitts stays at LT, keep Wiegert (pretty good still and a decent cap hit to get rid of) for one more year, put him at LG. Keep Hodgdon but look for a possible replacement that is bigger and can run block better, although he is decent in pass blocking. Unfortunately have to keep Wade, hopefully he can transition to RG but I'm not sure, but I do know I don't like him at RT. Draft a rookie (my preference is Winston) for RT and draft another (McNiel, Scott, Thomas, Joseph? don't have a specific idea of who yet) to rotate in on the interior and groom to replace Wiegert at the end of next year. Get rid of McKinney and Weary, already canned Riley, possibly keep Wand but I'm not real fond of him either. Keep Washington as he is a servicable back up and can play any of the interior spots. Maybe draft a third OL in the 4-7 round somewhere to groom for a year or two as Wade's eventual replacement once the cap hit to cut him drops to a managable level, otherwise draft his replacement in a year or two.
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Old 12-11-2005   #3
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Say we end up with the #2 pick?
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Old 12-11-2005   #4
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with the #2 pick we could still make a trade down for either Lienart or Bush..whoever is available.

I think whichever tackle we take (and god we better take one) will have as much chance of playing LT as Pitts does. I think it is Pitts job to lose..but either way our line isnt impressing anyone.. so if our RT is better.. I think we would switch em around.

I wonder if we couldnt really make a huge splash in this draft... if ya think about it.. if both Bush and Lienart are coming out..and we have the #1 pick.. if things are set up right, we could make a killing.

For example.. if we are #1, San Fran is #2, Green Bay is #3... we could find ourselves in a situation where Green Bay will trade us their #1, #2, and #3 so that they can get Bush over San Fran. San Fran may then opt to take Dbrick over trading down, since they need a line almost as bad as we do. Then we are sitting at #3 with Lienart on the board. We could trade with someone else again and get another #1, #2, and #3 deal.. and move to the middle of the first round.

Now we are sitting at a spot where we can get Scott or McNeil.. and we would have three #2s and four #3s. Thats pretty dang big. Even Casserly shouldnt have much trouble getting at least a few starters out of that situation.

Things would have to play out just right for that to even be a possibility though.
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Old 12-11-2005   #5
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with the #2 pick we could still make a trade down for either Lienart or Bush..whoever is available.

I think whichever tackle we take (and god we better take one) will have as much chance of playing LT as Pitts does. I think it is Pitts job to lose..but either way our line isnt impressing anyone.. so if our RT is better.. I think we would switch em around.

I wonder if we couldnt really make a huge splash in this draft... if ya think about it.. if both Bush and Lienart are coming out..and we have the #1 pick.. if things are set up right, we could make a killing.

For example.. if we are #1, San Fran is #2, Green Bay is #3... we could find ourselves in a situation where Green Bay will trade us their #1, #2, and #3 so that they can get Bush over San Fran. San Fran may then opt to take Dbrick over trading down, since they need a line almost as bad as we do. Then we are sitting at #3 with Lienart on the board. We could trade with someone else again and get another #1, #2, and #3 deal.. and move to the middle of the first round.

Now we are sitting at a spot where we can get Scott or McNeil.. and we would have three #2s and four #3s. Thats pretty dang big. Even Casserly shouldnt have much trouble getting at least a few starters out of that situation.

Things would have to play out just right for that to even be a possibility though.
San Fran splashed out for Jon Jannsen at LT last offseason, he has been injured, but they are not going to draft D'Brick. I really doubt Green Bay will break the bank for Bush, those types of trades have a history of failling misserably. It is looking like we will end up wtih the number 1, maybe trading down will net us a second and a third, givving us 10 total picks and 3 picks in the third round, all of them probably in the top 5 (ours, New Orleans and whoever we trade down with). That will set us up pretty well to work on the O-line early (first two picks) and then foucus on the D.

PS: wondering if there is a limit on the number of picks you can have, on Madden it is 10...
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Old 12-11-2005   #6
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If we are at #1 or #2 we should trade down. You're right, with whatever OLinemen we bring in they will need to compete for the LT job, but I think Pitts will end up staying there at least early on in the year, and I'd generally rather have a veteran protecting my QB's blind side rather than a rookie.

If we end up with #1, with the current standings it would probably look like San Francisco/Green Bay at #2/#3, NY Jets/New Orleans at #4/#5. The 49ers, Packers, and Jets would all be looking for Reggie Bush and would be in a decent trade war to get him. According to the draft pick point chart, getting the #2, #34, and #66 from San Francisco for the #1 would favor us in points, but with so many other teams probably willing to give up all three picks for Bush the 49ers might be looking to as well. After trading to #2, the Saints, Ravens, Cardinals, and possibly the Jets (depending on Pennington's health) would be looking to trade up for Leinart, so we could possibly pick up another 2nd and 3rd round picks and still end up in the top 5. If the Packers are #2 we accept a trade from the 49ers, it might ruin our chance at trading down again as the Packers have no interest in Leinart and would be looking to trade down with potential suitors. However, if we trade down twice and end up at #4 or #5, we could possibly trade down a third time if someone like the Cardinals who really need some OL help are really wanting to secure someone like D'Brickashaw Ferguson, so we could possibly pick up an additional pick there and trade down another 3-4 spots and still get our next top choice of OL (I prefer Winston over Ferguson anyways.
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Old 12-11-2005   #7
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the thing with drafting D'Brick or Winston and moving Pitts to guard is that it solidifes the left side of the line. Pitts is an above average guard who has the ability to be very good, if D'Brick is as good as advertised (rated as the 5th best player by Kipper), we will be set for years on that side
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Old 12-11-2005   #8
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Originally Posted by run-david-run
the thing with drafting D'Brick or Winston and moving Pitts to guard is that it solidifes the left side of the line. Pitts is an above average guard who has the ability to be very good, if D'Brick is as good as advertised (rated as the 5th best player by Kipper), we will be set for years on that side
Pitts is a very good OT though, he is athletic and strong. If we drafted Ferguson or Winston and they beat him out for the LT job at some point then we should move Pitts to RT.
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Old 12-11-2005   #9
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Yah I think Pitts has shown that his athleticism is suited to playing OT. If he isnt at LT, I wanna see him at RT. Guards are... traditionally.. the easiest Olinemen to find.. and once we have the tackle spots nailed down, I think filling in the guard spots will be "somewhat" simple.
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Old 12-11-2005   #10
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Originally Posted by Grid
Yah I think Pitts has shown that his athleticism is suited to playing OT. If he isnt at LT, I wanna see him at RT. Guards are... traditionally.. the easiest Olinemen to find.. and once we have the tackle spots nailed down, I think filling in the guard spots will be "somewhat" simple.
I agree. I think Wiegert still has another good year left in him and hopefully Wade can switch over to OG, but I think we should still look to draft an OG with our second pick in the draft since there are so many talented OL at the top of the draft. We can have the three compete for the two starting spots and get our rookie ready to take over for Wiegert in a year, and maybe Wiegert could even move over to OC to replace McKinney.
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Old 12-11-2005   #11
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Originally Posted by run-david-run
Who do we keep from this year's O-line and at what position?

I see Pitts staying and going back to LG along side D'Brick. This should solidify our left side. Hog should be the starting center next year. We cant get rid of Todd Wade because of his contract, but seeing his size and lack of quickness he could make a decent Guard. I think we should then use our second pick on either Johnathon Scott or preferably McNeil out of Auburn to play Right Tackle, depending on wether Scott is willing to play RT.

We then get rid of McKinney and Weigert out of the starting line-up.
That seems decent. I am not sold on Pitts at LT, but he is a good player. I really want the Brick and another draft pick going to the O-line!
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Old 12-11-2005   #12
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Pitts, Wiegert, Hogdon, and Wade should all return. In a trade down, i would be satisfied with an Oline consisting of Pitts Wiegert Hogdon Wade and Winston.

After that is done, we need a TE, 2nd WR, And any defensive position not occupied by Dunta Robinson or anyone weighing over 300lbs.

Maybe Leonard Pope, Reggie Wayne and Jon Vilma?? Im in that christmas spirit.
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Old 12-11-2005   #13
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Originally Posted by MorKnolle
Pitts is a very good OT though, he is athletic and strong. If we drafted Ferguson or Winston and they beat him out for the LT job at some point then we should move Pitts to RT.
agreed. and who's to say that a 2nd rd draft pick tackle can't produce. we all think pitts does an OK to good job and he's a 2nd rd pick and he didn't even play high school f-ball.

we draft bush or whoever with our 1st pick then go o-line next. unless were picking in the 7-10 range then maybe we go o-line but chances are we are picking top 3 if not #1. remember, you take the best player available with your 1st pick especially if it's a high one. except for qb if you are set there.

if we are picking 3rd overall, what do you guys think of us taking hawk? that is if bush is gone and lienert is gone for us trade with someone who needs a qb.
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Old 12-12-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorKnolle
Pitts is a very good OT though, he is athletic and strong. If we drafted Ferguson or Winston and they beat him out for the LT job at some point then we should move Pitts to RT.
bingo. pitts makes an adequate LT but IMO would make a very good RT, i'd really love to see what he could do on the right side of the line. what i'd like to see is two solid first day picks spent on the line ... winston & jean-giles being the ideal. if we can land someone like hutchinson without breaking the bank, then we'd be in pretty good shape IMO. either way, i'd throw the rookies into the fire and start them right away at LT and either G or C (whichever most suited for). weigert, wade, & hodgdon i'd let fight for the remaining interior spots for the new coaching staff.
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Old 12-12-2005   #15
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bingo. pitts makes an adequate LT but IMO would make a very good RT, i'd really love to see what he could do on the right side of the line. what i'd like to see is two solid first day picks spent on the line ... winston & jean-giles being the ideal. if we can land someone like hutchinson without breaking the bank, then we'd be in pretty good shape IMO. either way, i'd throw the rookies into the fire and start them right away at LT and either G or C (whichever most suited for). weigert, wade, & hodgdon i'd let fight for the remaining interior spots for the new coaching staff.
I agree with picking Winston first, although I don't know enough about the other ones available to make a decision on who to pick next then, maybe Jean-Gilles, maybe Davin Joseph, maybe Winston Justice, maybe Marcus McNeil, maybe even look to pick up a top OC (like the one from Minnesota) if we pick up a couple extra 2nd round picks and he's available in there. I say we definitely let the rookies compete for the top spots, but I'm still a little wary on starting a rookie at LT and protecting Carr's blind side immediately, I'd give him at least half a season to get used to the NFL first, but once again that all comes down to who wins the battle for the spot. I'd also look to sign Hutchinson if we can do so without spending too much money on him and that would maybe free up another draft pick, but we'll have to wait and see on that.
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Old 12-12-2005   #16
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Do you like Hutchinson or LeCharles Bentley better. Hutchinson has played tackle and guard in the league and Bentley has played everywere in the inerior line. They are both probowlers who would you want more...
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Old 12-12-2005   #17
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Either Hutchinson or Bentley would be ok if they are available we can get them for a reasonable price.
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Old 12-12-2005   #18
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Do you like Hutchinson or LeCharles Bentley better. Hutchinson has played tackle and guard in the league and Bentley has played everywere in the inerior line. They are both probowlers who would you want more...
whichever is cheapest because you cant go wrong with either one. ideally i'd like bentley because he is 2 years younger, and is at a bigger hole for the texans which is center. between the group of linemen we currently have, we can find a couple of guards. pitts at RT, a fresh start at LT, and bentley would make a fairly impressive foundation IMO. i really dont have much of a problem with starting a rookie on carr's weakside next season morknolle because i dont think we're looking at playoffs next year nomatter how well we do this offseason. we cant do worse than this season so more wins next year should at very least keep fans content enough to keep the bandwagon rolling and the experience would be vital to our future.

we screwed the pooch on our "5 year plan" out of the gate with this coaching staff, but i'm still more concerned about building a real team that can excell and evolve and be a contender year after year instead of a fire and forget that detroit lions keep trying to pull off. there's good reason the texans arent calling me to be GM, but i'd sink whatever necessary into getting top tier O-linemen and drafting the most hungry LB's.
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Old 12-12-2005   #19
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O.K. I dig this thread. If we're going to move that 1st pick and it might be for Bush then I want experience to go with some of those picks. I'll propose this one because the Raiders are in need and would jump at the chance of getting Leinart or Bush and thay have what I want.

OT/Gallery + Oak. #1 for our #1. Think Glimmer Man would jump at the chance to add one of these two players? Also, that Oak. pick should be a top 10 pick which could be used on another OT. There's your bookends and what's left of our current line should give us enough options to fill the G positions and leave some backups. If we get a strong G in the draft we might have the luxury of having Pitts start at RT and platoon the rookie until next year when he should be ready. Then you can move Pitts inside to G and that is huge.

Just my two cents.
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Old 12-13-2005   #20
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From LT to RT

Pitts - McKinney - Hodgdon - Weigert - Wand

Reasoning: This team has a lot of holes to fill, and this would be the best line we have had since the we've been a team. It would probably be average (adequate pass blocking, very good running blocking) in the league. Average isn't saying a lot, but given the numerous holes to fill that would have to be good enough. McKinney is a much better guard then center, Weigert is a better guard than tackle. Therefore these guards could help Hodgdon grow at center (although I'd still use a mid-to-late draft pick/FA acquisition on another center), and the guards could also work with the tackles given the schemes for specific games. Wand would be a better RT than Wade, leaving Wade as an extremely expensive backup. Brown is a decent backup guard. These players should have far better coaching next year which will also be a huge help.

This frees up the use of our first round pick to use on the best player available or to trade for multiple picks and a proven defensive player (picks to include a 2-4 round tight end). Our defense will probably require more fresh blood to fix than our offense, so we can't ignore the defense when contemplating this next draft.

Last edited by Runner; 12-13-2005 at 06:08 AM.
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