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Old 12-07-2005   #1
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Default Dbrick seems iffy...

I mean, if you've watched him, did you see a franchise LT that dominates?

I remember watching him against VT and came away very unimpressed. If a college DE can do that, imagine what Freeney will do...

And just remember this, Orlando Pace was #1 overall, and in college, he was an absolute BEAST.I think he finished 5th in heisman voting that year. when i think of franchise LT, Pace in college is what i think of. what am i supposed to think of a guy that doesnt even dominate in college?

Ferguson seems more like a project than a "franchise lt"
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Old 12-07-2005   #2
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That's been my impression the few games I've seen him. I think he has good mechanics to be a good, pass-blocking LT, but I don't see him every adding much weight, at least not without losing some athleticism, and being a good run blocker, and I don't think he could play any other OL position very well, and I know I want Pitts guarding Carr's blind side for at least a year and not a rookie. I've prefered Winston ever since I saw both of them play in the same day a couple months ago. It's even been said on one of the other threads that a few people ("real" football people within pro/college football, not just message board people) suggest that Ferguson drop weight and become a TE again.
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Old 12-07-2005   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorKnolle
That's been my impression the few games I've seen him. I think he has good mechanics to be a good, pass-blocking LT, but I don't see him every adding much weight, at least not without losing some athleticism, and being a good run blocker, and I don't think he could play any other OL position very well, and I know I want Pitts guarding Carr's blind side for at least a year and not a rookie. I've prefered Winston ever since I saw both of them play in the same day a couple months ago. It's even been said on one of the other threads that a few people ("real" football people within pro/college football, not just message board people) suggest that Ferguson drop weight and become a TE again.
I like Dbrick's value in the 3 to 6 range as I think he is not an impact right out of the box. I do not agree with your assessment about putting on weight and losing his athleticism. I have never seen an athlete lose his footwork, strength and technique by beefing up. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't footwork, strength and technique the holy trinity of OL's?
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Old 12-07-2005   #4
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To be fair to D'Brick Darryl Tapp is a very good DE and has a good chance of being a good NFL player.
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Old 12-07-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I like Dbrick's value in the 3 to 6 range as I think he is not an impact right out of the box. I do not agree with your assessment about putting on weight and losing his athleticism. I have never seen an athlete lose his footwork, strength and technique by beefing up. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't footwork, strength and technique the holy trinity of OL's?
He wouldn't lose strength by gaining weight, hopefully he'd get stronger, but putting on 25-30 pounds over one offseason can definitely change your quickness and possibly lead to nagging injuries if your body doesn't adapt well, and he showed last year that he had a problem keeping weight on and not losing it, so that leads me to question his long-term durability as an OL. I realize Tapp is a good DE, but I barely saw that game and the other few games I've seen Ferguson in I have not been very impressed against in his performance against lesser competition. We will have to wait and see how the combine and workouts go though.
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Old 12-07-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I like Dbrick's value in the 3 to 6 range as I think he is not an impact right out of the box. I do not agree with your assessment about putting on weight and losing his athleticism. I have never seen an athlete lose his footwork, strength and technique by beefing up. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't footwork, strength and technique the holy trinity of OL's?
Completely non-verifiable by us, but something to monitor--there was a guy on 610 am the other day (scout, internet or otherwise I didn't catch) who said D'Brick had been taken to a couple physiologist/trainer types who said he just wasn't going to add much weight above 295 lbs and maintain it. No real explanation why. May or may not matter, but folks who just want to add 30 lbs to him may be unrealistic.
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Old 12-07-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Completely non-verifiable by us, but something to monitor--there was a guy on 610 am the other day (scout, internet or otherwise I didn't catch) who said D'Brick had been taken to a couple physiologist/trainer types who said he just wasn't going to add much weight above 295 lbs and maintain it. No real explanation why. May or may not matter, but folks who just want to add 30 lbs to him may be unrealistic.
Highly possible, I have heard that he was in the 260-265 range coming out of high school...i will check will rivals in a few minutes.
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Old 12-07-2005   #8
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When I see him, I don't see the dominance I saw with players like Gallery, Bosseli, and Ogden in college. This guy often has good games where he doesn't let up sacks. But I remember seeing Gallery simply manhandle great college DEs while at Iowa. He made OSU's Will Smith look like a freshman instead of the All American DE he really was.

Ferguson, IMO, isn't a franchise LT.
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Old 12-07-2005   #9
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Checked and on the UVA site he is still listed at 265. While they probably neve updated his actual weight, if anything, he would have been smaller coming out of high school.

That said, his game is all about exceptional foot quickness and unusually long arms that get on the defenser quickly. Since he would be facing the lighter speed rusher for the most part, weight is probably less an issue than if were a drive blocking type.
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Old 12-07-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
Checked and on the UVA site he is still listed at 265. While they probably neve updated his actual weight, if anything, he would have been smaller coming out of high school.

That said, his game is all about exceptional foot quickness and unusually long arms that get on the defenser quickly. Since he would be facing the lighter speed rusher for the most part, weight is probably less an issue than if were a drive blocking type.
Which may be why he is concidered a better pass blocker than a run blocker, just doesn't have the lead in the butt to move folks around. The issue will be, will that transfere to the NFL.
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Old 12-07-2005   #11
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IDEALLY you'd like to draft a player like D'Brick and develop him before throwing him to the wolves, we do have Pitts playing well so there might be some wiggle room to not so much add bulk as to strengthen and prepare him for the riggors of a NFL OT. I do believe he has tremendous upside potential, his base and reach if refined are the stuff that a franchise tackle can be built from its just that right now he needs a TE or LG to team up to seal off the edge.

That being said clearly this is not our best option in these dark days of year 4 but merely a option if the Texans trade down for more picks and D'Brickashaw slips for those very concerns.
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Old 12-07-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Completely non-verifiable by us, but something to monitor--there was a guy on 610 am the other day (scout, internet or otherwise I didn't catch) who said D'Brick had been taken to a couple physiologist/trainer types who said he just wasn't going to add much weight above 295 lbs and maintain it. No real explanation why. May or may not matter, but folks who just want to add 30 lbs to him may be unrealistic.

From what I heard Lance Zeirlien say Ferguson has trouble keeping on his weight and is not as good as Gallery.

I don't want to draft him just because we "need" OL help. We need to draft BPA.
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Old 12-07-2005   #13
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I dont necesarily think D'brick is our man but from what I heard on ESPN that teams might be moving to smaller tackles with better footwork to stop the Dwight Freenys of the league. Im not sure thats just what I heard.
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Old 12-07-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
Checked and on the UVA site he is still listed at 265. While they probably neve updated his actual weight, if anything, he would have been smaller coming out of high school.

That said, his game is all about exceptional foot quickness and unusually long arms that get on the defenser quickly. Since he would be facing the lighter speed rusher for the most part, weight is probably less an issue than if were a drive blocking type.
Ferguson had played primarily TE in high school and had put weight on but has had trouble keeping it on and I think dropped all the way to 265 or so at the end of last season. Foot quickness and long arms don't matter if you only weigh 265, that is about the average TE weight in the NFL, definitely not what you want as a LT. People like Freeney will still be much quicker and weigh more than him. A DE or whoever else is rushing the passer will have significant speed going when he initially runs into the OL, and an OL cannot expect to win that battle if they don't weigh at least 30-40 pounds more than the pass rusher, much less if they are the same weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_txtech
I dont necesarily think D'brick is our man but from what I heard on ESPN that teams might be moving to smaller tackles with better footwork to stop the Dwight Freenys of the league. Im not sure thats just what I heard.
Freeney has a pretty good bull rush too, as all good NFL DE will, so we can't go to ultra light LT. If Ferguson is indeed only 265 there is no way he can play LT in the NFL at that weight, he would be smaller than our TEs. OL have to outweigh DE by at very minimum 20 pounds to absorb and stop their momentum when they run into them.

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Old 12-08-2005   #15
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I think Joe Thomas is going to overtake D'Brick as the top LT taken. D'Brick just hasn't been dominate enough.
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Old 12-08-2005   #16
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I haven't seen Joe Thomas play enough to know, but Winston in my opinion has looked better than Ferguson and won the best OLineman of the year award from what I heard.
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Old 12-08-2005   #17
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With all due respect, Tapp is a finalist for the Hendricks (DE Award) and the Lott (Defensive player of year) Awards. Not exactly a scrub DE. Reminds some of Juluis Peppers (quoted byNFLDraftblitz).

D'Brick will be a top 10. #1 overall - not to sure about that. Especially when you consider who else is elgible for the draft this year.

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Old 12-08-2005   #18
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Top 10 pick is fine but when you draft a LT #1 you don't want to have any doubts that he is worthy of that pick. I believe the last bust of a TOP flight T was Tony Mandrich so having a bust at LT seems to be a lot less likely. You pretty much seem to be able to tell if they can do it or if they have been dominate in college to a level above and beyond....like your Pace, Odgen, Gallery.

Ferguson is turning into our situation last year with Barron. If he really is 265 then he'll drop way down unless some coach is absolutely convinced he can keep weight on this kid which appears fairly difficult.

I want to draft a #1 overall pick at this point who leaves me w/o a doubt. Right now until we CHANGE management I'm not sure what to feel.
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Old 12-08-2005   #19
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"If a team took him just because they say look, we really like this player, we like Eric Winston, we want him on our line, but we already have a real good left tackle, well, Eric Winston could play guard. He could easily be a guard. He's got the body type to be in there and take on those blocky guys who play inside on the regular-down defense, anchor the power rushers," Groh said.
"Obviously, D'Brickashaw is not going to be a guard, he's not going to be a center," Groh said. "If teams make any tradeoff in their tackles, if they have to do so, the left tackle with a right-handed quarterback, in order to get the type of pass-protection ability, they're willing to give up a little bit of the root-'em-out skill, OK, but then that means your right tackle has got to be a pretty good root-'em-out guy.
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I dunno....here's some interesting and insightful observations by an asst. coach with the Jets who admits to thinking this guy is an outstanding
pass blocker, but that's it. Unlike say Winston, not really suited to play any
other OL position. So versatility is definitely not a strong point.
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Old 12-08-2005   #20
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A DE or whoever else is rushing the passer will have significant speed going when he initially runs into the OL, and an OL cannot expect to win that battle if they don't weigh at least 30-40 pounds more than the pass rusher, much less if they are the same weight.
That, simply, is not true. Out-weighing someone does not mean you're stronger or quicker.

I don't understand the obsession with scale weight. Ferguson's listed @ 295 in every media publication I've read and if you've seen him, he isn't FAT. Take away Orlando Pace's GUT and I'd be willing to bet he weighs the same - if not less - at 6'7" than Ferguson does at 6'5". Perhaps his genetics keep him from packing on fat? Who knows, who cares? Can he BLOCK?
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