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Old 12-07-2005   #61
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Yeah you're right Coach C...it just seems IMO McNair is underestimating how strongly the fan base feels about the demise of the team and who we hold accountable for it.

There is still a lot of good will out there towards him for bringing the NFL back to town and lord knows we (the fan base) can have the patience of oyster when it comes to waiting for our teams to perform at a high level but I am concerned with the "keep Cass for another year move."

Looks like a compromise decision to me and like most important decisions in life (school, profession, partners, spouses) they are usually a mistake.
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Old 12-07-2005   #62
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Who is to blame? The GM, scouts, the owner, the coaches?? Who. I say all of them, and more. The owner is to blame for not demanding results. I have seen multiple sources that swear Mcnair really wants to keep Capers, but knows he will be roasted if he stands pat. This makes me concerned about our long term health as a franchise when the man leading it, refuses to replace incompetent people. Cass needs to be told "Don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out". But, here again, Mcnair will let the incompetent boob AKA Casserly slide another year. I am sure we will probably draft some punter from North Dakota State. Cass has been fleeced more than a sheep. I'm surprised he doesn't go Baah. He couldn't spot a sure thing with a microscope. He gives away draft choices like candy to the Easter Bunny, and gives out Money to medicore FA as if it grew on real money trees. Ok, so we don't have 1-11 talent. We probably have 5 win talent. Oh forgive me. Keep Cass and give the man a raise for assembling such a powerhouse of talent. Entire teams are built, fall, and rebuilt in 4 years, and yet the man still hasn't even built one offensive line in 4 years. Neutral? Ya, I am neutral. Nuetral on if he flys first class or coach on the way back to Washington.
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Old 12-07-2005   #63
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Casserly and Capers have both had their share of blunders, so they've made one another appear worse than they really are, IMO. But please don't put the onus on McNair, I hate it when I see people bashing McNair. This is the same guy who spent like 700 million of his own money to bring the NFL back to Houston, so give him a break. I actually prefer to see an owner with patience rather than one who makes knee jerk decisions based on one or two seasons. Success comes with consistency in the NFL, that goes for coaching, front office, and personnel. If you look at most of the successful franchises in the NFL, they have consistency in their coaching staff and that has a large impact on their success. Just look at New England....they lose their coordinators and they're fighting for a playoff spot after winning two consecutive Super Bowls. And besides, this was an EXPANSION TEAM, it's our 4th season, and we were progressing every season before this year. Did you really expect McNair to fire his staff after they'd improved three consecutive years? Did you want him to fire them right now, during the season? Because that hasn't exactly worked out in the past, or in the present for that matter a la Detroit. Capers deserves a pink slip at the end of the season, but if you think any of this is McNair's fault, think again.
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Old 12-07-2005   #64
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Originally Posted by blockhead83
Casserly and Capers have both had their share of blunders, so they've made one another appear worse than they really are, IMO. But please don't put the onus on McNair, I hate it when I see people bashing McNair. This is the same guy who spent like 700 million of his own money to bring the NFL back to Houston, so give him a break. I actually prefer to see an owner with patience rather than one who makes knee jerk decisions based on one or two seasons. Success comes with consistency in the NFL, that goes for coaching, front office, and personnel. If you look at most of the successful franchises in the NFL, they have consistency in their coaching staff and that has a large impact on their success. Just look at New England....they lose their coordinators and they're fighting for a playoff spot after winning two consecutive Super Bowls. And besides, this was an EXPANSION TEAM, it's our 4th season, and we were progressing every season before this year. Did you really expect McNair to fire his staff after they'd improved three consecutive years? Did you want him to fire them right now, during the season? Because that hasn't exactly worked out in the past, or in the present for that matter a la Detroit. Capers deserves a pink slip at the end of the season, but if you think any of this is McNair's fault, think again.

First off, it wasn't all of his 700 million. Secondly, he will get back all of that money, and then some off of working people's backs. Excuse me if I don't shed any crocidile tears for a billionaire. Poor Poor misunderstood Bob. Boo friggin who.

As to patience. Patience is good to a degree. But too much is just as bad as not enough. Keeping incompentent people under the guise of patience and continuity is just as bad as a knee jerk Steinbrenner type. The best owners reward competence, and identify and get rid of imcompentence early before it festers and infects the organization like a bad disease. You want a patient owner group. Go see how Detroit has done over the years. The other thing I fault him for is under spending on assistants. Maybe if we had a top notch offensive line coach, our talent wouldn't seem as bad in that area as it appears. Mcnair is far from the only problem, but he IS a problem. Classy guy. Love the fact he brought football back, but he isn't a demigod either, and he deserves at least some of the blame for this current mess.
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Old 12-07-2005   #65
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Originally Posted by Porky
Mcnair is far from the only problem, but he IS a problem.
I'll have to disagree here, but even if I did agree with you, it would just be Too F---- Bad (tm). That's the one "problem" that won't ever get fixed, so folks ought to get it out of their heads. Bud Adams to Bob McNair is such a huge upgrade that he would have to really try to be an *** to get me riled.
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Old 12-07-2005   #66
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All McNair has to do is look north at Detroit...crap GM can fire all the coaches he wants

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Old 12-07-2005   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
First off, it wasn't all of his 700 million. Secondly, he will get back all of that money, and then some off of working people's backs. Excuse me if I don't shed any crocidile tears for a billionaire. Poor Poor misunderstood Bob. Boo friggin who.

As to patience. Patience is good to a degree. But too much is just as bad as not enough. Keeping incompentent people under the guise of patience and continuity is just as bad as a knee jerk Steinbrenner type. The best owners reward competence, and identify and get rid of imcompentence early before it festers and infects the organization like a bad disease. You want a patient owner group. Go see how Detroit has done over the years. The other thing I fault him for is under spending on assistants. Maybe if we had a top notch offensive line coach, our talent wouldn't seem as bad in that area as it appears. Mcnair is far from the only problem, but he IS a problem. Classy guy. Love the fact he brought football back, but he isn't a demigod either, and he deserves at least some of the blame for this current mess.
Excuse me for being greatful that someone in Houston was willing to make a huge financial leap in order to bring the NFL back to Houston. I'd MUCH rather have a bad team than none at all, especially an organization as classy as this one. I've also heard that McNair apparently shorted Capers the cash for good assistants, but so far as I know there's no proof of this whatsoever. If you can come up with some evidence that this actually transpired besides column rumors, I'll spot you that point. Additionally, if Capers thought his assistants weren't cutting it, it's his and Casserly's responsibility to make the changes, not Mr. McNair. McNair probably has about the same football sense as any one of us, that's why he has a seasoned veteran in Casserly to help him make his decisions. Casserly's been around long enough to know how the NFL works, whether he's made great draft choices thus far or not.

Regardless of all of that, back to my main fault with your argument. This was an expansion franchise, so we were expected to begin badly. We showed alot of fight in year 1, and our record improved each of the next two years. How are you going to fault McNair for not firing Capers and Casserly when they were making progress? He didn't know that some of Casserly's draft choices were going to be busts, [u]nobody[u] did. He didn't know Capers' plans for improving the pass rush and pass protection would ultimately fail, nobody did. And once again, props to McNair for not firing them midseason, which is basically just surrendering the season. Capers is still fighting and trying to stay positive, by firing him we might as well have just forfeited the remaining schedule to ensure our #1 draft pick. McNair's trying to provide the fans with the best on-field product the Texans can provide for the rest of the season. Faulting him for this "mess" is ridiculous, IMO.
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Old 12-07-2005   #68
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Originally Posted by blockhead83
Faulting him for this "mess" is ridiculous, IMO.
He is the head. Ever heard of the buck stops here. Who do you think hired the people that created the mess? Faulting him exclusively is ridiculous, but absolving him of any blame is ludicris. You pick which adjective is worse.
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Old 12-07-2005   #69
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Originally Posted by Porky
He is the head. Ever heard of the buck stops here. Who do you think hired the people that created the mess? Faulting him exclusively is ridiculous, but absolving him of any blame is ludicris. You pick which adjective is worse.
So McNair takes the blame for a short term loss? Three consecutive seasons they have had incremental growth in the win column and then run into this train wreck. It is all of our right to share our opinion, but lets wait for the season to close before we start talking about how much of the blame lies at the top of the pyrmaid. At McNair's high level, change cannot be installed and implemented at the drop of a dime.
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Old 12-07-2005   #70
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McNair doesn't play the games and he doesn't coach the players, he just signs the checks and tries to bring in knowledgeable help. Based on the past, which is all he had to work with, things should've worked out better this year. I don't fault him for any of our shortcomings this year. However, if he didn't act after this season and we had a repeat performance or worse next year, I'd be more inclined to share your opinion.

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Old 12-07-2005   #71
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Originally Posted by Porky
I have seen multiple sources that swear Mcnair really wants to keep Capers, but knows he will be roasted if he stands pat. This makes me concerned about our long term health as a franchise when the man leading it, refuses to replace incompetent people.
I can't blame McNair for wanting "the dream" which is of course to have hired the next Tom Landry on his first try. It's Capers 4th season and he's 1-11 right now. In Landry's fourth season he finished 4-10 and he didn't win anything until his 7th year.

It's a different world today and Landry would be under just as much pressure as Capers is today. He'd never get those 7 years to get it built right in todays world.
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Old 12-08-2005   #72
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Who is to blame? The GM, scouts, the owner, the coaches??
The players.
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Old 12-08-2005   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blockhead83
Casserly and Capers have both had their share of blunders, so they've made one another appear worse than they really are, IMO. But please don't put the onus on McNair, I hate it when I see people bashing McNair.
Dear Blockhead--

If McNair keeps Casserly I think he DESERVES to be bashed, and bashed hard and long. This is just the kind of compromise move that I feared when I posted the quote from the other source. I don't WANT to bash McNair, but if he makes another nonehead move because he's too scared or too nice to do the right thing football-wise, well, HE'S A BLOCKHEAD.

Casserly has done as much as Capers to bring this franchise to its knees in 4 short years. The Oilers' checkered history here looks like a brilliant success when compare to this TRAIL OF TEARS delivered by Capers and Casserly.

I'm thrilled that McNair brought NFL football back to Houston, but if the coaches and the GM, and the team become a laughingstock, as they have, then I think it's incumbant on McNair to make the HARD CHOICES necessary to turn it around. Keeping his seatmate in as GM is just going to insure more of the same kind of incompetence we've seen so far. Casserly is, for heaven's sake, primarily RESPONSIBLE for selecting the (very nice but clearly not competent) Dom Capers! What, you think Casserly is suddenly going to get some smarts?

I disagree. I think BOTH HAVE TO GO ASAP.
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Old 12-08-2005   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
I can't blame McNair for wanting "the dream" which is of course to have hired the next Tom Landry on his first try. It's Capers 4th season and he's 1-11 right now. In Landry's fourth season he finished 4-10 and he didn't win anything until his 7th year.

It's a different world today and Landry would be under just as much pressure as Capers is today. He'd never get those 7 years to get it built right in todays world.
God, please! Somebody shoot him. You're probably the same guy who compares Carr to Favre in another thread. Capers knows how to blow a whistle, but unfortunately the comparison to Landry ends there.
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Old 12-08-2005   #75
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God, please! Somebody shoot him. You're probably the same guy who compares Carr to Favre in another thread. Capers knows how to blow a whistle, but unfortunately the comparison to Landry ends there.
I'm afraid I have to agree. Poor comparison Herv. Just because Landry took some time to put the pieces together in Dallas doesn't make the comparison valid. Landry was a great coach. Capers is a bad coach. I hearby declare that the words Capers and Landry shall never be invoked in the same sentence again. It is done, this day, the 8th of December, the year of our lord 2005. signed by the Honorable Porky.
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Old 12-08-2005   #76
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What worries me about McNair is that he appears to be like some folks on this board that automatically assume that changes will always result in something worse. I keep hearing that we don’t have any better alternatives to Capers and Casserly and that we will probably wind up with someone worse. Why is that? I can predict with great certainty that Casserly will continue to miss much more than hit with his personal decisions. I base this prediction by analyzing his whole 20 year career, not just the five years of greatness he enjoyed with the Skins over a decade ago. Casserly is what he it, a gambler of a GM. Is there a good chance that the Texans screw up again choosing a new front office? Most likely, there are plenty of NFL teams, and most are not all that good. However, there is also a chance that we might find the next great GM or coach. The only way we guarantee that it does not happen is to hang on to guys like Capers and Casserly long after they have proved to be incompetent.

I am very grateful for McNair bringing football back to Houston. However, I also realize that he is in a very favorable position for an NFL owner. The Texans are a top 5 revenue producing franchise. The Texans are not the Vikings, Saints, or the old Oilers, trapped in bad stadium deals without sufficient revenue streams. The Houston economy is very strong and there should not be a reason for companies to continue to pay to be associated with the Texans. The trick is to create a successful product that they will want to spend money on. Unfortunately, most business people are not going to pour money into the Texans just because they love the NFL. There are very few “True” fans just happy to put their name up in an NFL stadium when it comes to corporate sponsors. McNair should be much more concerned with turning this ship around to keep that top 5 rating. If the Budweiser plaza or the Gallery Furniture entrance is not renewed, he will take it a lot more seriously than if a few season tickets are not renewed.
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Old 12-08-2005   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk
Dear Blockhead--

If McNair keeps Casserly I think he DESERVES to be bashed, and bashed hard and long. This is just the kind of compromise move that I feared when I posted the quote from the other source. I don't WANT to bash McNair, but if he makes another nonehead move because he's too scared or too nice to do the right thing football-wise, well, HE'S A BLOCKHEAD.

Casserly has done as much as Capers to bring this franchise to its knees in 4 short years. The Oilers' checkered history here looks like a brilliant success when compare to this TRAIL OF TEARS delivered by Capers and Casserly.

I'm thrilled that McNair brought NFL football back to Houston, but if the coaches and the GM, and the team become a laughingstock, as they have, then I think it's incumbant on McNair to make the HARD CHOICES necessary to turn it around. Keeping his seatmate in as GM is just going to insure more of the same kind of incompetence we've seen so far. Casserly is, for heaven's sake, primarily RESPONSIBLE for selecting the (very nice but clearly not competent) Dom Capers! What, you think Casserly is suddenly going to get some smarts?

I disagree. I think BOTH HAVE TO GO ASAP.
As I tried to make somewhat clear in my previous posts, I agree with what you're saying. If McNair does not make changes this offseason, either by replacing Capers, Casserly, or both, and we pay for it next year then I have no problem with you criticizing McNair. If he gets suckered into the same promises from these guys that we're about to turn the corner, and then we fall flat on our face again next year, then it becomes McNair's fault for not learning from his mistakes. My problem is with people criticizing McNair right now, because I think he's made the correct choices thus far in the franchise's existence. He's had very little reason to fire a staff that was making strides year after year until this train wreck happened this season.

I mainly want to see Fangio replaced, but I'll settle for the entire coaching staff being redone. On the Casserly front, maybe I'm just gullible, but I still think Capers and these coaches have made his acquisitions look worse than they really are. If Casserly is fired, it won't bother me, but just who do you have in mind that is more qualified than him to come in and run this thing? Give me some idea of who you're envisioning as the Texans savior, who's available that has the reputation of being a great GM?
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Old 12-08-2005   #78
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I'm afraid I have to agree. Poor comparison Herv. Just because Landry took some time to put the pieces together in Dallas doesn't make the comparison valid. Landry was a great coach. Capers is a bad coach. I hearby declare that the words Capers and Landry shall never be invoked in the same sentence again. It is done, this day, the 8th of December, the year of our lord 2005. signed by the Honorable Porky.
You both misunderstand my comparison. I'm not trying to say that Capers and Landry have anything in common besides being the first coach of an expansion team. I'm saying that McNair has to face the fact that he didn't hire a guy who's going to be not only his first coach but also his first successful coach and, unlike when Tom Landry was starting out with Dallas back in the 60's no fan base today is going to wait 7 years for results.

If Landry was the Cowboys first head coach and the Cowboys had begun play in 2002 like the Texans then Tom would be fired as well and long before he ever got within sniffing distance of a Championship.

I realize I somehow implied that given 7 years Capers might get it right though and I didn't mean to say that at all. My ultimate point though was that for McNair firing Capers means he's got to acknowledge that the Texans got off on the wrong foot. That's got to suck for him because I'm sure he's got very high expectations just like we all do.
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Old 12-08-2005   #79
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I think that was Landry's first job as the head coach . He and Lombardi made the greatest pair of cordinators in NFL history and he was probably all of 40 .
Dom on the other hand has prior experience as a head coach and has a track record .
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Old 12-08-2005   #80
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Charlie Casserly is quite possibly the worst GM in the history of the world. The only good things he has done are getting a 3rd round pick for Drew Henson after spending a 6th rounder on him the year before, and gettting lucky when he drafted LSU's backup running back in the 4th round. That backup running back just happened to turn out into a pretty good starting running back.

Now let's look at where he has failed the team. A 2nd and 3rd round pick for Philip Buchanon. A 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick for Jason Babin. That is wasting five picks on two players on a team that is supposed to be "building" a team from scratch. And don't forget that the Buchanon trade led to the dumping of Aaron Glenn. Oh yeah, what happened to the team's leading tackler(Jamie Sharper) since the inception of the franchise? Cut! The offensive line is the biggest weakness on this team, yet in 2005 they drafted one lineman(5th rd), none in 2004, two in 2003(4th and 7th rd), and two in 2002(3rd and 4th rd). I just wish McNair would tie Casserly to Dom Capers and throw them under the same bus. Capers is done regardless, but he doesn't deserve nearly the blame that Casserly does. Sure the team stinks, but look at what the GM has given Capers to work with.
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