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Old 12-06-2005   #41
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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34
You can be a good GM and not be good at making trades but you better know your limitations . I think if you have solid drafts and use free agency wisely ... you don't really have to trade much .
You are absolutely right. There are actually very few trades in the NFL, especially with the salary cap and the large signing bonuses that many players are seeking. Good teams are generally built through the draft and some free agency, with maybe a trade or two in there to pick up a key player (like the Patriots getting Dillon a couple years ago)
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Old 12-06-2005   #42
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I have looked up Bobby Beathards career because CC seems to get alot of credit for building the Redskins .

Bobby Beathard worked for the Chiefs as scout starting in 1963 and was with them when they won their Super Bowl . He was then hired as the Director of Player Persnonel by the Miami Dolphins . After a couple of Super Bowls with Miami , Beathard took over the GM spot for the Redskins in 1978 and three Super Bowls later left to do TV (89-90) . He then went to San Diego were they went to the SB in 94 . Its sad to say but even Bobby could'nt take Ryan Leaf and retired .

This was CCs mentor ... I hope he was'nt sleeping in class .
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Old 12-06-2005   #43
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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34
I have looked up Bobby Beathards career because CC seems to get alot of credit for building the Redskins .

Bobby Beathard worked for the Chiefs as scout starting in 1963 and was with them when they won their Super Bowl . He was then hired as the Director of Player Persnonel by the Miami Dolphins . After a couple of Super Bowls with Miami , Beathard took over the GM spot for the Redskins in 1978 and three Super Bowls later left to do TV (89-90) . He then went to San Diego were they went to the SB in 94 . Its sad to say but even Bobby could'nt take Ryan Leaf and retired .

This was CCs mentor ... I hope he was'nt sleeping in class .
Beathard promoted Casserly to Asst. GM in 1982, I believe it was, and it was Beathard who credited Casserly with drafting several of the players that won those Super Bowls. The Super Bowl in '91 was won without Beathard, but many of the players that Beathard drafted were there still. As I mentioned above, however, Casserly is credited with drafting 8 of the defensive starters for that team.

These posts keep coming up and though I am not necessarily defending Casserly (it wouldn't really hurt my feelings if he left or stayed), people keep throwing out this notion that Casserly has somehow ascended the NFL ranks through some ignorance on everyone else's part. These people are not stupid and Casserly's done some good things in his career. Whether he continues that run here is all I really care about.
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Old 12-06-2005   #44
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These posts keep coming up and though I am not necessarily defending Casserly (it wouldn't really hurt my feelings if he left or stayed), people keep throwing out this notion that Casserly has somehow ascended the NFL ranks through some ignorance on everyone else's part. These people are not stupid and Casserly's done some good things in his career. Whether he continues that run here is all I really care about.
It also seems that the idea that Casserly is a draft genius comes up just as often here and among the media. From what I have been able to gather, Casserly's greatest success came working for or with Beathard. In addition, it also helped that he had a Hall of Fame coach in Joe Gibbs making use of the talent. These great results also occured about 15 years ago, which is quite a long time ago in the "what have you done for me lately NFL". Since that time, he has been pretty hit and miss with the Skins and now the Texans. Mike Ditka was a great coach for the Bears in roughly the same period. However, that work years ago does not make him a great coach right now. There are several other GMs, like Bill Polian, that built more than one team that seem much more worthy of all the lavious praise that Casserly seems to get.
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Old 12-06-2005   #45
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After Beathard's players and coaches left , what happened ?
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Old 12-06-2005   #46
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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34
After Beathard's players and coaches left , what happened ?
Brilliant hirings of head coaches like Richie Petitbon and Norv Turner. Great first round selections like Heath Schuler, Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, and Michael Westbrook.

Here is a quote from the NFL History Guide "The Redskins were one of the weaker teams in the league for much of the 1990s."

Here are most of Casserly's drafts in Washington. Grade'em out.

1999
1. Champ Bailey, CB, Georgia
2. Jon Jansen, T, Michigan
4. Nate Stimson, LB, Georgia Tech
5. Derek Smith, OL, Virginia Tech
6. Jeff Hall, K, Tennessee
7. Tim Alexander, WR, Oregon St.

1998
2. Stephen Alexander, TE, Oklahoma
3. Skip Hicks, RB, UCLA
4. Shawn Barber, LB, Richmond
5. Mark Fischer, C, Purdue
6. Pat Palmer, WR, Northwestern St.
7. David Terrell, CB, UTEP
7. Antwaune Ponds, LB, Syracuse

1997
1. Kenard Lang, DE, Miami
2. Greg Jones, LB, Colorado
3. Derek Smith, LB, Arizona St.
4. Albert Connell, WR, Texas A&M
5. Jamel Williams, S, Nebraska
5. Keith Thibodeaux, CB, N.W. Louisiana
5. Twan Russell, LB, Miami
5. Brad Badger, G, Stanford

1996
1. Andre Johnson, T, Penn State
4. Stephen Davis, RB, Auburn
5. Leomont Evans, S, Clemson
6. Kelvin Kinney, DE, Virginia St.
7. Jeremy Asher, LB, Oregon
7. Deandre Maxwell, WR, San Diego St.

1995
1. Michael Westbrook, WR, Colorado
2. Cory Raymer, C, Wisconson
3. Daryl Pounds, CB, Nicholls St.
4. Larry Jones, RB, Miami
5. Jamie Asher, TE, Louisville
5. Rich Owens, DE, Lehigh
6. Brian Thure, T, California
7. Scott Turner, CB, Illinois

1994
1. Heath Shuler, QB, Tennessee
2. Tre Johnson, T, Temple
3. Tydus Winans, WR, Fresno St.
3. Joe Patton, T, Alabama A&M
4. Kurt Haws, TE, Utah
6. Dexter Nottage, DE, Florida A&M
7. Gus Frerotte, QB, Tulsa

1993
1. Tom Carter, CB, Notre Dame
2. Reggie Brooks, RB, Notre Dame
3. Rick Hamilton, LB, Central Florida
3. Ed Bunn, P, UTEP
4. Sterling Palmer, DE, Florida St.
5. Greg Huntington, C, Penn St.
6. Darryl Morrison, CB, Arizona
6. Frank Wycheck, TE, Maryland
8. Lamont Hollinquest, LB, USC

1992
1. Desmond Howard, WR, Michigan
2. Shane Collins, DE, Arizona St.
3. Paul Siever, G, Penn St.
4. Chris Hakel, QB, William & Mary
6. Ray Rowe, TE, San Diego St.
7. Calvin Holmes, DB, USC
8. Darryl Moore, G, UTEP
9. Boone Powell, LB, Texas
10. Tony Barker, LB, Rice
11. Terry Smith, WR, Penn St.
12. Matt Elliott, C, Michigan

1991
1. Bobby Wilson, DT, Michigan St.
3. Ricky Ervins, RB, USC
6. Dennis Ransom, TE, Texas A&M
7. Keith Cash, WR, Texas
8. Jimmy Spencer, DB, Florida
9. Charles Bell, DB, Baylor
10. Cris Shale, P, Bowling Green
11. David Gulledge, S, Jacksonville St.
12. Keenan McCardell, WR, UNLV

1990
2. Andre Collins, LB, Penn St.
3. Moe Elewonibi, G, BYU
4. Cary Conklin, QB, Washington
5. Brian Mitchell, RB, S.W. Louisiana
6. Kent Walls, DT, Nebraska
9. Tim Moxley, G, Ohio St.
10. D’Juan Francisco, DB, North Dakota
10. Thomas Rayam, DT, Alabama
11. Jon Leverenz, LB, Minnesota
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Old 12-06-2005   #47
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If I'm not mistaken they traded up for Desmond Howard . CC traded with the Bengals for the rights to Desmond Howard . Funny thing is the Bengals took Carl Pickens in the 2nd round , who ended up a much better WR .
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Last edited by Honoring Earl 34; 12-06-2005 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 12-07-2005   #48
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You guys are giving Beathard too much credit. Specifically, credit for being good in a cap era. Beathard bombed in the cap era, to include the Ryan Leaf pick. He also annually became the guy other teams fleeced, by giving up future #1's for selecting players he could have gotten one or two rounds later.

Casserly comes from the same mold. He and Beathard could build a team in the pre-cap era, but neither has accomplished anything since the cap was implemented. In fact, both led/are leading their teams towards permanent bottom feeders. The Chargers only began to climb out of the mess Beathard left them 5 years after he was gone.

Don't let Casserly continue to ruin the Texans. He needs to be fired.
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Old 12-07-2005   #49
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Sitting here watching Cold Pizza and one of their analysts just said that he has heard from inside the Texans organazation that Casserly's job is safe and he will be here next season. He also said McNair WANTS to keep Capers here until at least next season, but probably will not because of poor ticket sales.
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Old 12-07-2005   #50
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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34
I have looked up Bobby Beathards career because CC seems to get alot of credit for building the Redskins .

Bobby Beathard worked for the Chiefs as scout starting in 1963 and was with them when they won their Super Bowl . He was then hired as the Director of Player Persnonel by the Miami Dolphins . After a couple of Super Bowls with Miami , Beathard took over the GM spot for the Redskins in 1978 and three Super Bowls later left to do TV (89-90) . He then went to San Diego were they went to the SB in 94 . Its sad to say but even Bobby could'nt take Ryan Leaf and retired .

This was CCs mentor ... I hope he was'nt sleeping in class .
Beatherd also failed miserably in San Diego after being proclaimed a genius in Washington.

Luck and circumstance is the biggest factor in the draft. All teams trade off the same information for the most part.

When I evaluate a GM I'm more interested on how he executes during the draft, tade ups, trade downs, matching need and value to the player, etc...Self scouting is actually where I think the better GM's seperate themselves measuring what they have vs. the competition and what they need.

That's why I'd fire Casserly...it's not necessarily about who he drafted, it's about blowing several picks for Babin, the Buchanon fiasco, overevaluating the talent on his roster, etc...

Mostly, he needs to be fired cause your heading towards 1-15 in an era when you're not supposed to be rebuilding. Everyone has to be accountable for that. You don't want a losing culture like the Lions have where Ford suffers fools time and again.
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Old 12-07-2005   #51
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Right now, I am Cass neutral. Mostly because I am not sure that we can get anybody better. The only way I ever saw him leaving is if we thought we could get a flashy (i.e. Coach that would get people to buy tickets) coach that would also demand the GM job, and I don't think any of those are going to be truly interested in the Texans job, other than for the purposes of getting more money from some other team, or because they want their ego stroked but won't coach for anyone.

I believe Casserly can work with any number of coaches and get them the personnel they want.

Link to the previous thread about possible GMs that are out there.

I do not begrudge him the moves that didn't work out. A non-good team is going to absorb bad choices worse than a team that is a good one. If you make enough choices in life or in football, you are going to have ones that don't work out so well for you. Some of the choices available to the Texans are going to be limited for a while because FAs may not want to come to a newish team and they will want more money to take that risk. Players careers are finite, and many don't want to deal with the risk of wasting their careers rebuidling.
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Old 12-07-2005   #52
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Beathard did not fail to bad in San Diego ... they went to the Super Bowl . His downfall was Ryan Leaf .
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Old 12-07-2005   #53
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Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
Haha, Bob and Bob. Hopefully in our case we won't see too many promotions for undeserving people, just for Hoke and then keep Marciano. I have been dying to ask some of the people that work over there "What would you say [pause] you do here?" I was just thinking of that yesterday. I wonder how many Lumberghs and Miltons they have working over there.
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Old 12-07-2005   #54
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Haha, Bob and Bob. Hopefully in our case we won't see too many promotions for undeserving people, just for Hoke and then keep Marciano. I have been dying to ask some of the people that work over there "What would you say [pause] you do here?" I was just thinking of that yesterday. I wonder how many Lumberghs and Miltons they have working over there.
Can we keep one Marciano and not the other?
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Old 12-07-2005   #55
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On second thought, maybe Tony is worth keeping too. He was the o-line coach before Pendry came in and saved the day.
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Old 12-07-2005   #56
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Originally Posted by Nighthawk
A terrifying report from the rumor mongering ProFootballTalk--

CASSERLY WILL STAY

Although plenty of league insiders believe that Texans G.M. Charley Casserly should join coach Dom Capers in the ranks of the soon-to-be-unemployed, word is that owner Bob McNair will keep the guy who hired the coach who hasn't done jack in four years on the job.

Capers, however, is definitely gone, meaning that Casserly will get another chance to hire the right guy to lead the team.

Of course, the new coach won't be in a position to give any input as to whether the team should keep quarterback David Carr for 2006, since an $8 million option bonus is due to the No. 1 pick from the 2002 draft at the end of the regular season. We think that the team should choose not to pay Carr the money, allow him to become a free agent, and then if the new coach decides that Carr is the best fit for the new coach's offensive strategy, Carr should be re-signed.
A.) I don't think this is "terrifying" at all. Casserly has made some good decisions and has made some bad ones -- just like every GM in the biz. Believe me, there's nothing better available out there. B.) If they don't pay Carr and let him go the free agent route, somebody else will sign him and then the Texans will be forced to pay even more money to get him back or else throw the dice with Ragone since you sure don't want to throw another draft choice at a questionable QB when that choice could be traded to renovate the entire team.
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Old 12-07-2005   #57
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Originally Posted by HJam72
Yeah, it was probably inevitable, but I still don't have to like it. Casserly gets one more chance to find the right HC.
I love this. You think that a good HC is just lying in the bushes, undiscovered by anybody else? The list of possible HCs is long, but they have their negative points too.
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Old 12-07-2005   #58
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I disagree completely. At 1-11, the team's coaching staff and front office need a total revamp.

When I look at the team's drafting, trading and free agent signings, I can't conclude Casserly has done a good job. Quite the opposite, actually. I also think he's overrated for what he did in Washington, basically taking over after Bobby Beathard had already built the team. Who were some of Casserly's #1 picks in Washington? Let's see: Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Desmond Howard, among others.

I don't want Casserly anywhere near our draft room in 2006. If he is retained, I will give serious thought to selling my PSL's for whatever I can get for them. No sense throwing good money after bad, and the emotional cost has been high.
Good post...spot on. I don't care who the next GM is frankly because no one could be worse than this guy. If McNair let's Casserly anywhere around the draft room in '06 we are in big trouble. It does appear however that the fans do have some influence with McNair so if you want Casserly gone (as I do) then we have to make it clear that we will not support financially a Casserly lead team in '06 period. If Capers and company are the only ones thrown under this buss...then the organization is deeply flawed with regards to integrity.
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Old 12-07-2005   #59
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Generally Humbleone the GM gets more leadway than a coaching staff. Since Casserly does not have the overall direct influence over them that Capers and his staff does. I also feel like Cass gets a shot even though I think McNair is checking out people that could take his job. A decent amount of the business staff of things would stay anyway, the main shake up would be the scouts, coaches, Casserly's cabinet(VP and the like), but after these people most of the other posistions are set.
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Old 12-07-2005   #60
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The thought is nobody has any confidence in any Texans brass and we don't know where to turn to right the ship . No matter what if we're not back to sqare one , we're in the neighborhood .
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