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Old 11-28-2005   #1
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Default Future Options; bush myths put to rest

It seems that every year there is a "hot" prospect that everyone wants to get: ST, DJ...me too, Bush...

but there will always be one every year.

Bush is a phenominal athlete and all around football player, but ask yourself, when was the last time there was a "hot" linemen prospect? Gallery?
Elite linemen seem to come every three years on the average, while elite RB's seem to come 1-2 a year.
This years LT's: D'brick, Winston
This years RB's: Bush, D. Williams

who is there next year you might ask?
LT's: Joe Thomas if he stays in school
RB's: Adrian Peterson...one of two people i am deciding between for next years draft, Lendale White, RB from UT.

There will always be a top tier RB or three each year, but to find an elite LT is rare. Alex Barron was the best last year, and would probally be a second round draft pick this year. Ced. Benson, R. Brown, and Cadillac are all just as good as bush. Bush is very versitle and provides a different dimension with his ability to play WR you will argue. You will argue that DD is not an every down back, but then ask yourself, how many carries are you expecting bush to recieve? It will be argued that he will recieve touches at WR.
We currently have 4 RB's on the roster: DD, Wells, Morency, Hollings.
You say hollings is gone this year, ok that leaves you with:
DD- long term contract that will have little trade value, Wells- a solid back up, also used for short yardage, and Morency- a third round draft pick from last year who will not be cut or traded.
I'm going to assume that the next option for bush supporters would be to drop wells and hollingsand leave DD as a back up. Well, DD is not a big bruiser, short yardage back, and bush is even further from one. Wells must stay.

"We can play DD at WR while bush is at RB"
That is ignorant and blind love. DD is a generous 5'9 with minimal breakaway speed. He is not a WR.

"Bush will get his chance at WR because he has the ability"
We currently have at least 5 WR's on our roster who would make other teams rosters.

"Bush will be our deep threat and force teams not to double AJ"
We have mathis to do this. Mathis is faster and has better hands downfield.

"Bush can be our slot guy then"
IF we were to draft him, the last place i would want him would be the middle of the field.

"Servicable OL will be available in the second round."
What have we done with our second round picks? Guys might slide some, but not as much as you would like to believe. There are two, and only two elite LT prospects this year: Winston and D'brick. The rest are second and third tier OL guys, and have a better than average chance to be a bench guy.

"We should take the best playmaker available"
In most cases yes, but we have obvious needs that need to be filled before we worry about another playmaker. The way I see it is this: we have aj, carr, DD, and mathis. that equals 1 qb, one rb, and 2 wr, 1 kr.

"A team like ours needs play makers, not linemen."
We have enough offensive playmakers to be a playoff team. Dont waste 1st round picks like detroit. Who are the best teams around the league? Steelers, Seahawks, Bears, Colts. All of the teams forementioned have an average number of playmakes except for the colts who never were able to be sucessful, even with their abdundence of playmakers, until they built a defense and a solid OL. The most sucessful teams have maybe one or two superstars on their teams, and a great OL in common.

i will post more later. i know this is quite a read, but hopefully i've made my point and turned some heads. let me know what you think because this took some time to write.
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Old 11-28-2005   #2
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I know what you are saying, but I disagree on your value of some of the lineman from last year.

Brown not Barron was the first lineman taken and honestly the better tackle.
Last year Brown went in the middle of the first round(13) while Barron went 19. if they were in this year's draft I am pretty confident they would not be in those spots. Brown likely would be a mid 2nd rounder at best. I am pretty confident that barron would slip all the way to the third round.

You said it, you cannot get a stud LT every year.
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Old 11-28-2005   #3
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Yes, brown is better this year, but barron will soon be better. He would still not crack the first this year, either of them.

Every year there is at least one new, cant miss RB that everyone "needs"

Every three years there is a LT that teams "want"

I want the top LT this year, whoever grades out higher.

My options for 2007 first round pick: Adrian Peterson, Greg Olsen


my perfect solution:
trade down this year, aquiring a first next year. Draft Winston this year. Next year, draft Peterson and Olsen with our two first round picks.
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Old 11-28-2005   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan
my perfect solution:
trade down this year, aquiring a first next year. Draft Winston this year. Next year, draft Peterson and Olsen with our two first round picks.
yes, yes, yes
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Old 11-28-2005   #5
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finally, somebody has seen the light...
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan
Yes, brown is better this year, but barron will soon be better. He would still not crack the first this year, either of them.

Every year there is at least one new, cant miss RB that everyone "needs"

Every three years there is a LT that teams "want"

I want the top LT this year, whoever grades out higher.

My options for 2007 first round pick: Adrian Peterson, Greg Olsen


my perfect solution:
trade down this year, aquiring a first next year. Draft Winston this year. Next year, draft Peterson and Olsen with our two first round picks.
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Old 11-28-2005   #6
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Ok YTF you and me usually see eye to eye on draft prospects, but maybe you are overgrading Adrian Peterson. Personally I like Peterson, but is he really that much better than say Chris Brown. Yeah he may be faster, but they are very similar style runners. I think LenDale White is the steal RB next year. He reminds me alot of Ronnie Brown. White will be a stud in the NFL barring injury. So if for some reason we go RB next year instead of stud DE. Then we should take White.
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Old 11-28-2005   #7
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my hope for this years draft:
trade down, aquire a next years first, and a this years third
LT-Winston around #7
DE-Dumervile or Tapp
OG-Luiti
FS-Slay
TE-guy from colorado who's name i cant spell


that covers the first day.

Next year
Peterson
Olsen

that covers round one.



I like adrian peterson because he showed that if given adequate talent around him, he can be an elite back, and an every down back. He showed me this year, that he does not need a 7 year qb and a great o line. He has one top o line member this year and is still producing.

Lendale white will be great, a better pro than bush i feel, but peterson is going to be better. Bigger, faster, better vision, and he will have more experience behind less of a line.

Olsen is the next Shocky and probally better. I know i want us to take kolse...you fill in the rest, but olsen is the best TE in a while, the other guy is just to shut up the impatient members of our disgruntled community.
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Old 11-28-2005   #8
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While Adrian Peterson is a very talented and big RB, people keep complaining that Domanick Davis doesn't have breakaway speed but Peterson does not either. He is barely faster straight-line speed than Davis but I don't think he is as quick. Am I necessarily saying Davis is better than Peterson will be? No, but the main knock I hear on this board about Davis is that he is not super fast but Peterson is not either. I personally like our current RB situation and do not see us drafting Bush this year unless we use him primarily as a WR and 3rd down RB or Peterson next year.
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Old 11-28-2005   #9
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I agree on Olsen and hope he comes out this year to be honest we could likely snatch him in the second I think he is a junior or 3rd year sophmore. Either way he is solid. Peterson and White will be the top RBs next year to go along with Quinn and VY. I doubt we will be looking at either of them honestly unless one falls to us then hell why not. Olsen is a guy that will likely go in the top10 when he comes out.

Is Slay really a FS or a SS. You did not list a LB or CB which are huge needs for us.
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Old 11-28-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadahnic
I agree on Olsen and hope he comes out this year to be honest we could likely snatch him in the second I think he is a junior or 3rd year sophmore. Either way he is solid. Peterson and White will be the top RBs next year to go along with Quinn and VY. I doubt we will be looking at either of them honestly unless one falls to us then hell why not. Olsen is a guy that will likely go in the top10 when he comes out.

Is Slay really a FS or a SS. You did not list a LB or CB which are huge needs for us.

there are no CB's worthy of our picks when we would pick. no one in this draft at CB is an upgrade over Buchanon, even the guy from Vtech.

LB's: I would love to substitute Ahmad brooks for our second round pick, he has a chance to fall if he declares. LB's tend to drop further than projected and there is a small cluster of them this year: hawk, brooks, hodge, howard, greenway, ryans, and a few others. not all of these will be first round picks. Brooks and ryans will be steals for where they are currently projected to go. Hawk will be solid value for his spot. the rest i feel are bust waiting to happen, with the exception to howard who is hit or miss for me still.
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Old 11-28-2005   #11
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I dont really care what position slay is classified under, he is a ball-hawking safty in the body of a LB. He is one of few college players at any position to drive through the tackle and finish properly. He diplays leadership ability and uncanny tenacity. He is very good in coverage but is able to crowd the box to stop the run.

NFL comparision for me: a mix between Thomas Davis and Troy Poluemeu *sp*
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Old 11-29-2005   #12
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The guy from Colorado is Joel Klopenstien.
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Old 11-29-2005   #13
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[quote=YoungTexanFan]

"hot" linemen prospect? Gallery?
Elite linemen seem to come every three years on the average, while elite RB's seem to come 1-2 a year.
This years LT's: D'brick, Winston
This years RB's: Bush, D. Williams

Gallery was last year not three years ago Ferguson can be good along with Winston but i dont see them as being Elite. not if youve seen any of there Games they havent been the Dominating Force some people want to make them out be
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Old 11-29-2005   #14
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[quote=Napa Auto Parts]
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan

"hot" linemen prospect? Gallery?
Elite linemen seem to come every three years on the average, while elite RB's seem to come 1-2 a year.
This years LT's: D'brick, Winston
This years RB's: Bush, D. Williams

Gallery was last year not three years ago Ferguson can be good along with Winston but i dont see them as being Elite. not if youve seen any of there Games they havent been the Dominating Force some people want to make them out be
Gallery was two years ago at least, taken #2 overall. last year was alex barron and jamal brown. nothing special last year.

Ferguson has been showing why he needs to add muscle mass this year but has not lost his top 5 rating. Winston has come back from his injury and is getting better by the week. Wait until combine.
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Old 11-29-2005   #15
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I may be the only person here who wants to see the Texans trade back up into the first round after picking Bush instead of simply trading that top pick down for more picks.

How you feel about spending that first round pick is really determined by what you think is wrong with the Texans. If you are of the opinion that our primary problem is a lack of players/talent then you want to trade it down for more picks. If you think the main problem is with our coaches then you want to draft the best guy you possibly can with the pick we already have.

I personally feel that our problems are mostly coaching/scheme related and that we're closer to being good than we appear to be. Assuming the Texans end up with the top pick in the draft I want to see them take Reggie Bush with that pick, then make an attempt to bundle some combination of Domanick Davis, our 2 and one of our 3's to get back up into the first round to select one of this years outstanding LT prospects. That still leaves us with a 3 to go hunting a TE, FS or whatever we haven't been able to address in free agency.
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Old 11-29-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan
there are no CB's worthy of our picks when we would pick. no one in this draft at CB is an upgrade over Buchanon, even the guy from Vtech.

LB's: I would love to substitute Ahmad brooks for our second round pick, he has a chance to fall if he declares. LB's tend to drop further than projected and there is a small cluster of them this year: hawk, brooks, hodge, howard, greenway, ryans, and a few others. not all of these will be first round picks. Brooks and ryans will be steals for where they are currently projected to go. Hawk will be solid value for his spot. the rest i feel are bust waiting to happen, with the exception to howard who is hit or miss for me still.
Kelly jennings CB from Miami.
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Old 11-29-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
I may be the only person here who wants to see the Texans trade back up into the first round after picking Bush instead of simply trading that top pick down for more picks.
this would be a nightmare scenero
something Casserly would do- "Babin can play, really"
for once I would like to see the Texans use (minimum) ALL THEIR PICKS other than trading down from the 1st pick to aquire MORE PICKS. Forgive me if I seem skeptical but the Texans eye for talent via trade or Free Agency has not exactly garner'ed rave reviews. at least with the guys drafted Casserly has done OK, in fact and this is my critical contention is that his draft record would be above average if he had kept those picks instead of trading away (2nd & 3rd in 05) trading up into the 1st rd. (2nd, 3rd & 4th) & suppemental (Hollings 2nd rd.)
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Old 11-29-2005   #18
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I personally think Babin will be fine. This is only his 2nd year and he's been injured a bit, but the last few games he's really been playing with fire. I've said it many times, Tweeners in the 3-4 take more time to develop. Some more than others and I think that is where Babin is categorized, but I still think he's a damn good OLB. IMO the coaching staff is bringing him along too fast, hindering his confidence.

Sure can go after Bush, then we would have 4 RB's. Bush, DD (who we just gave a fat contract to), Morency, and either Wells or Hollings. Does that make any sense?

Ok so then we can after a QB. Lienart or Young. Since we have the 1st pick it the consesus is Lienart. ok so by the time we draft we would have already made our decision on Carr. More than likely, especially after last game, we are staying with Carr. So Lienart is out. We should however pick up a QB either in FA or in this draft. Banks has to go.

So what does that leave us? Well that leaves us with what the true problems are with our team, the offensive line and the defensive unit as a whole. I don't think there is a tackle worthy of the number one pick but Lienart is worth that pick but we don't need him, so we trade. Either we trade for players or trade down. One scenario is to trade to Washington our 1st pick and maybe get a LB in Arrington and a couple of later round draft picks. I don't like our corps of ILB especially when Wong is injured and who knows how is rehab will go. We are ranked at the botton of the league in run defense, so we need address that either through the draft or FA. There are a few teams that need a QB (Lions, Ravens) so there will be possibilities in trading down. We can trade down and get a solid Tackle and maybe get some extra picks in either the 2nd or 3rd round. This is where we need a strong GM, and frankly I'm not comfortable in Casserlys ability to get good players in these rounds. Fire Casserly at the end of the season and get a stronger minded GM to guide this ship properly with an understanding of what the 3-4 needs to be successful. That GM should have some background with the 3-4 in order for it to be a success.

As I see it our glaring needs are the Oline, TE, Cornerback, Safties and ILB. with the extra 2nd or 3rd round picks we can start filling these needs with the best player available, since we have so many needs we can afford to take the best player available at these positions.

Call me crazy.
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Old 11-29-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
this would be a nightmare scenero
something Casserly would do- "Babin can play, really"
Books not finished on Babin...but trading up for a tweener project is not the same as trading up for a guy who grades high at a position that he currently plays. Trading up is not the problem...trading up for a guy who has to change positions has shown to be far riskier.
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Old 11-29-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Books not finished on Babin...but trading up for a tweener project is not the same as trading up for a guy who grades high at a position that he currently plays. Trading up is not the problem...trading up for a guy who has to change positions has shown to be far riskier.
I hope he is not finished and that he CAN play otherwise its an unbeliveable blunder of epic proportions. the point taken is why incure such risk? and why deplete the depth and talent of a young expansion team when there are so MANY needs?

congratulations on exceeding 6,000 posts, your doing a great job, someday your going to be a General Vinny
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