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Old 11-28-2005   #1
horn_omatic
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Default 3-4 defense

People have said the problem with the texans, is the defense. I agree, more specifically the fact that we don't have the personel to run a 3-4. It can be a very good defense as we have seen, with the Pats and Steelers over previous years. I think if everyone is going to jump on the, we need to draft god all mighty (Reggie Bush) with the first pick, our next coach after Dom had better switch to a base 4-3.
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Old 11-28-2005   #2
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I saw a defensive unit play well yesterday in the first half. I thought Babin, Greenwood and Smith were very active. We need more depth on the D including a slobber knocker Safety.
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Old 11-28-2005   #3
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the problem is that i was hoping that coleman would have progressed a little better. i think at this point he would be a better corner than safety. C.C. has shown that he will hit and i think both he and Earl will get better with time. Earl tends to over pursue in run support though.

Last edited by horn_omatic; 11-28-2005 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 11-28-2005   #4
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The LBs had 5 and 1/2 between them yesterday, and that's very good.
But what's curious, only one of those sacks was credited to an outside backer. Not suppose to work that way in the 3-4 'cause the OLBs are thought
to be the sack specialists ?
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Old 11-28-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
The LBs had 5 and 1/2 between them yesterday, and that's very good.
But what's curious, only one of those sacks was credited to an outside backer. Not suppose to work that way in the 3-4 'cause the OLBs are thought
to be the sack specialists ?
We actually added Greenwood with the idea that we could sometimes rush from the inside. The Steelers have gotten a pass-rush from the inside (remember Kendrall Bell?) at times as well. The Vic Fangio defense, however, doesn't appear to get a pass-rush from anywhere. Instead we tend to play a read-and-react, cover 2, style 3-4. You might as well have 11 40 year-olds playing D with this approach.
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Old 11-28-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
The LBs had 5 and 1/2 between them yesterday, and that's very good.
But what's curious, only one of those sacks was credited to an outside backer. Not suppose to work that way in the 3-4 'cause the OLBs are thought
to be the sack specialists ?
One of the strengths of the 3-4 is supposed to be the ability to blitz from any of the LB spots, making it difficult for the offense to prepare for the 4th rusher. Most current 3-4 defenses do have an OLB that they can send anytime they want, but they'll also blitz from the middle. Peek should be the guy that just goes to kill the QB every down, IMO, but I am encouraged by Babin's play yesterday as well. Greenwood looked good at times and Polk made a few plays.
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Old 11-29-2005   #7
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rather go with a 4 - 3, move Smith inside to partner Payne, TJ at end and another at the other end spot. Put Greenwood back at OLB with Babin on the other side and Wong in the middle. Next season go with CC and Earl at safety.

Mind you thats based on the guys we got already - who's to say that they'll all be here next season.
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Old 11-29-2005   #8
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Earl did not impress me yesterday.
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Old 11-29-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mancunian
Put Greenwood back at OLB with Babin on the other side and Wong in the middle. Next season go with CC and Earl at safety.
I dunno.....but I really do think Babin could play as a staight-up backer in
the 4-3. While his pass rushing skills are still suspect, he can deal pretty
effectively with running plays in terms of handling interference/meeting the play head-on plus he has excellent lateral pursuit to the ball.
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Old 11-29-2005   #10
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Robaire hasn't been nearly anything close to the dominating tackle he was for the Titans. I am sure he would be up for a move. Babin and Peek both played end in college so either could probably adjust easily. Greenwood played OLB for Miami and Orr could play the other OLB. Put polk in the middle. There that doesn't seem that insane. Wong will play the middle when he returns and if they could get a heavy hitting safety and another solid corner via the draft or free agency they could be in a lot better shape than they are now. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened.
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Old 11-29-2005   #11
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The problem is not the 3-4, per say, as has been mentioned there are many successful defenses running this scheme. The problem is our version of the 3-4. It seems very similar to a prevent defense with a couple of occassional wrinkles. We don't have a consistent pass rush to speak of, and our coverage is extremely soft. When a QB has all day in a pockent, and we give 10 yard zones, they can just pick us apart. Add in sorry tackling abilities, and you've to a recipe for suck pie.

It's not even a very aggressive form of the 3-4/cover 2. There is no swarming the ball or high turnover ratio. We give up too much yardage just by running this particular sheme.
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Old 11-29-2005   #12
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This last game was the 3-4 I was looking for for 4 years nowm except for the complete lack of effort at the end of the game. I am very curious to see if we bring the same defense this next game, it's the only reason I will be watching.
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Old 11-30-2005   #13
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Alot of the dominant defenses in recent year's have been 3-4's, I like the concept, but as alot of you have pointed out Fangio's version sucks. I'm not convinced that we don't send a fair amount of blitzes each game and they just get blocked, but it did seem that we turned up the effort to get to the QB against St. Louis, and it made a world of difference. What surprises me is our supposed "explosive" pass rushers, guys like Peek, Babin, and Orr weren't the major contribution to the pass rush last week, IMO. Our inside backers, Earl, and the DLine seemed to be bringing the most heat to me. I thought the OLB was supposed to play a crucial role in the 3-4's pass rush, not that it matters to me who is applying the pressure, so long as there IS pressure.

Another thing, did anyone else think Jason "Hasn't started at corner since college" Bell looked much better in coverage than what we'd seen from Buchanon all season? He had one bum call for pass interference, which was crap IMO because his head was turned and he was going for the ball, but otherwise he hung with some very tough receivers and did a solid job. Hell, even our practice squad player, McKenzie, looked like he was tighter in his coverage than Buchanon did this season. I wouldn't mind giving Bell some more PT at corner.
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Old 11-30-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blockhead83
Another thing, did anyone else think Jason "Hasn't started at corner since college" Bell looked much better in coverage than what we'd seen from Buchanon all season? He had one bum call for pass interference, which was crap IMO because his head was turned and he was going for the ball, but otherwise he hung with some very tough receivers and did a solid job. Hell, even our practice squad player, McKenzie, looked like he was tighter in his coverage than Buchanon did this season. I wouldn't mind giving Bell some more PT at corner.
And your surprised that our second and third string looks better than PBurnt??
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Old 11-30-2005   #15
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Yea, actually I am. Buchanon is a better athlete than both those guys. He also seemed to place the blame for his performance on the system, which wasn't aggressive enough for his liking. The system seemed to work fine for Bell, who extremely rarely suits up at CB for us, and provided pretty tight man coverage for the majority of the game.

I was looking for alot more out of Buchanon when we gave up a 2nd and a 3rd round pick. Special teams players are outperforming a guy that we gave up two first day picks to acquire. I have to admit I became a little weary of Buchanon before the season when he seemed more excited about making interceptions and returning punts than he did about shutting his man down. I don't think Buchanon prides himself as much on his coverage as he does his shake n' bake.
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Old 11-30-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blockhead83
Another thing, did anyone else think Jason "Hasn't started at corner since college" Bell looked much better in coverage than what we'd seen from Buchanon all season? He had one bum call for pass interference, which was crap IMO because his head was turned and he was going for the ball, but otherwise he hung with some very tough receivers and did a solid job. Hell, even our practice squad player, McKenzie, looked like he was tighter in his coverage than Buchanon did this season. I wouldn't mind giving Bell some more PT at corner.
I have been wondering all season why Bell doesn't play more. He's probably not as fast as Faggins and may not cover quite as well but I know he can tackle and enjoys hitting people. I'd almost consider him at safety too, although I'd like to see Brown and Earl back there together and Coleman on the bench, and bring Bell in as a sub at safety as well until Simmons is healthy.
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Old 11-30-2005   #17
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I say we switch to the 4-3..

put Babin and Peek at DE.. Draft a Good DE in the 1st or 2nd Round to either Push them to get better or take over the other spot..

and with Payne and Walker getting up there in age.. we have them rotate the Tackle Positions with Smith and Johnson..

Put Wong on the Inside.. Greenwood on outside.. and Draft one of the OLB coming outta college. Howard, McIntosh, Ryans, Carpenter could all be available to us in the late 2nd early third (at least one of them should)..

Draft a good CB.. (CoughsMinterCoughs) put him on the other side of Robinson and let them give QBs nightmare on passing downs..

Put Brown and Earl at Safety and let Coleman's overpaid-underachieving butt ride the bench and bring in a rookie like.. Greg Threat to push them or take one of the spots back there..

Mike Singletary would have a great time with all of these players at his disposal..
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Old 11-30-2005   #18
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Solution: Get a better 3-4 coach.

The 3-4 is a proven system, but Fangio sucks. C'mon, anyone knows that a 2 man rush doesn't stop a pass when the game's on the line.


I would support implementation of the 4-3, but I think staying as a 3-4 would allow for a smoother transition [i.e. less offseason work for our tweeners to return to DE size]
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