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Hollings to Fins?

cuppacoffee

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
From Profootballtalk.com rumor mill

"Cole also identifies various backs whom the Dolphins might acquire via a trade, including Tony Hollings of the Texans, Najeh "Dookie" Davenport of the Packers, and Lamar Gordon of the Rams. Hollings is the most enticing of this trio; he was the Texans' second-round pick in last year's supplemental draft, and league sources have in the past verified that his ability justifies the lofty draft status. Still, his future in Houston has been clouded by the unlikely emergence of fellow 2003 rookie Domanick Davis. "

Think they want him bad enough for a #1?
Dont they also have a disgruntled DE Ogenleye (sp?)

Possibilities? idonno:

Story
 
i dont mind trading Mack but not hollings, it would be interesting to deal with them because we would pretty much do what we want with the trade seeing as how they are the team in need
 
i dont mind trading Mack...
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Kind of hard to trade a player you don't have.

The Texans are counting on Hollings as quality depth behind DD so I don't think they would consider such a deal. Hollings was a high second rounder so it would take "at least" a first rounder to compensate. The way it looks, the Phins may be picking in the upper half of the first round next year. The only reason a Hollings trade is somewhat intriguing to me is because the guy has done nothing in the NFL and his present value is still based solely on potential. The jury is still out on whether he will be a legit NFL RB or not. But, if they do trade Hollings (which I think is unlikely), they would have to turn right around and start looking for a backup RB again.
 
dude its probably bull, but just for grins why wouldnt we trade a backup running back for a starting DE then we could move Robaire Smith to NT and put Ogunleye at RE and have Gary Walker at LE. Or for a #1 pick? Long shot, but if true you dont even hesitate.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
dude its probably bull, but just for grins why wouldnt we trade a backup running back for a starting DE then we could move Robaire Smith to NT and put Ogunleye at RE and have Gary Walker at LE. Or for a #1 pick? Long shot, but if true you dont even hesitate.
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Mainly because Ogunleye wouldn't play DE in our system. He is 255lbs, i.e. the size of our OLB's.
 
cuppacoffee said:
"Cole also identifies various backs whom the Dolphins might acquire via a trade, including Tony Hollings of the Texans, Najeh "Dookie" Davenport of the Packers, and Lamar Gordon of the Rams. Hollings is the most enticing of this trio; he was the Texans' second-round pick in last year's supplemental draft, and league sources have in the past verified that his ability justifies the lofty draft status. Still, his future in Houston has been clouded by the unlikely emergence of fellow 2003 rookie Domanick Davis."
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The bold part is why Hollings wont be traded, he could challege DD for his starting job next year...
 
Ogunleye would def. be an OLB in our system. I say go for it....start negotiations pronto...before training camp starts!! I'd rather have him than any draft picks.
 
I think its more likely they go after Davenport or perhaps even a William Green. They seem to be in a bind as far as this year goes, but next year with James' interest in returning to Miami I don't see them having a RB problem.
 
__V__ said:
Hollings isn't going anywhere. Frankly I think he is our lead-back of the future.
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I do, too. I feel Hollings will challenge Davis by the end of the year for the starting job and he could possibly win it next year...
 
I think it is a possibility too. I am excited about our backfield this year. A lot more so than the past two years.
 
I feel Hollings has a lot to prove to be inserted into the starting role. Sure he fast, but he doesn't have all the other intangibles right now that make a great back. Fumbling, pass protection, picking up the blitz are all very important. I just don't think he has that right now. Keep in mind he hasn't played much college HB.
 
Hollings was an option QB in HS so he has run the ball before. I see Dom Davis as a smaller Duce Staley. I don't see too much top end in Davis. I see a Robert Smith or perhaps Michael Bennett type in Hollings.
 
__V__ said:
I see a Robert Smith or perhaps Michael Bennett type in Hollings.
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I could see the Michael Bennett in Hollings, he is so fast. Look at his highlights from his 4 games in college. All you see are defenders in the bottom corner of the TV...
 
Hey, I hope I am wrong. I hope he can catch the ball out to the backfield and pickup the blitz during minicamp and catapult himself into the starting role.
 
Fiddy said:
I do, too. I feel Hollings will challenge Davis by the end of the year for the starting job and he could possibly win it next year...
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I agree. I really like DoubleD's work ethic and style, but long term Hollings has more of an upside. I think he'll raise some eyebrows this season. Next year we can deal with the terrible problem of having 2 quality backs. Nice problem.
 
OK, V, Fiddy, & Ogre, you are all delusional. How can you say that Hollings is gonna take the job from Domanick? Now im sure that you will come up with just anything that has to do with it but hear this... in Tony Hollings' first start, he gained 26 rushing yards on 13 carries for an average of 2 ypc. Domanick Davis' first start, he gained 129yards on 21 carries for 6.1 ypc and a TD. Im using their first start as an example so you cant say that Domanick had more experience. There is no argument that you can make against the fact that Domanick is the better running back. Mark my words, Tony Hollings will never be more than a backup in Houston, maybe a starter somewhere else, but not here.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
OK, V, Fiddy, & Ogre, you are all delusional. How can you say that Hollings is gonna take the job from Domanick? Now im sure that you will come up with just anything that has to do with it but hear this... in Tony Hollings' first start, he gained 26 rushing yards on 13 carries for an average of 2 ypc. Domanick Davis' first start, he gained 129yards on 21 carries for 6.1 ypc and a TD. Im using their first start as an example so you cant say that Domanick had more experience. There is no argument that you can make against the fact that Domanick is the better running back. Mark my words, Tony Hollings will never be more than a backup in Houston, maybe a starter somewhere else, but not here.
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Tony Hollings was coming of major knee surgery (not a fair sample of touches) and Dom Davis just looks like Duce Staley to me. I think he has limited upside. He will be a good NFL back, but not an elite one. Just my opinion.
 
__V__ said:
Tony Hollings was coming of major knee surgery (not a fair sample of touches) and Dom Davis just looks like Duce Staley to me. I think he has limited upside. He will be a good NFL back, but not an elite one. Just my opinion.
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Duce Staley? Duce doesnt have the foot speed or quickness Domanick has. I dont think that you can compare Domanick to any other back in the league. And the argument that Hollings was coming off knee surgery, thats exactly my point! He will never be fully recovered from that type of injury. So he will never be able to carry the load like domanick can. He will probably reinjure it. Domanick is gonna be a star in houston for years to come.
 
And DD's first start was against the Jets, who had one of the worst run defenses in the league last....
Hollings first start came against the Jags, who had the BEST run defense (yards per carry wise) in the league...
That is an unfair comparision...
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
Duce Staley? Duce doesnt have the foot speed or quickness Domanick has. I dont think that you can compare Domanick to any other back in the league.
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Dom and Duce run EXACTLY alike. Dom and Duce both are slashing rb's with limited speed and good hands.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
Duce Staley? Duce doesnt have the foot speed or quickness Domanick has. I dont think that you can compare Domanick to any other back in the league. And the argument that Hollings was coming off knee surgery, thats exactly my point! He will never be fully recovered from that type of injury. So he will never be able to carry the load like domanick can. He will probably reinjure it. Domanick is gonna be a star in houston for years to come.
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Davis doesnt have speed, he has quickness. Too many times last year DD got caught from behind. How can you say the Hollings will never be fully recovered from ACL surgury, do you have some inside info that I dont know about??? And Davis cant carry the load, he gets hurt when he does. Had to leave the Panthers game because of an injury, got hurt during the Falcons game and had to come out for a few plays and then missed the following game against the Jags.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
OK, V, Fiddy, & Ogre, you are all delusional. How can you say that Hollings is gonna take the job from Domanick? Now im sure that you will come up with just anything that has to do with it but hear this... in Tony Hollings' first start, he gained 26 rushing yards on 13 carries for an average of 2 ypc. Domanick Davis' first start, he gained 129yards on 21 carries for 6.1 ypc and a TD. Im using their first start as an example so you cant say that Domanick had more experience. There is no argument that you can make against the fact that Domanick is the better running back. Mark my words, Tony Hollings will never be more than a backup in Houston, maybe a starter somewhere else, but not here.
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Actually it was worse than that. The second Jax game was his first start and he carried 18 times for 19 yards or 1.1 ypc. Having said that, it is pretty obvious the 2nd Jax game was a complete team melt down with Jax teeing off on the run knowing the 3rd string QB Ragone was not going to be tossing the ball all over the field. In one stretch of several possessions, Hollings got hit 6 times straight deep in the back field--that was an OL problem more than a RB problem. That comparison isn't even close to a reasonable way to view what others were discussing which was potential. I wouldn't venture out to say either will ever be an elite RB. DD has shown he can be a very solid starter. Hollings has potential--let's see what it turns in to--maybe elite.
 
All im sayin is that domanick will be an elite back by the 2006 season and that he will be a superstar in Houston for years to come.
 
I see Dom Davis as a smaller Duce Staley
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from the little i've watched Staley, while they both take short steps & have similar frames, DD seems better at setting up his blockers.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
All im sayin is that domanick will be an elite back by the 2006 season and that he will be a superstar in Houston for years to come.
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DD doesnt have the top notch speed to be an ELITE back or a superstar. Do me a favor Beastlyman, name the elite backs in the league for me and I will tell you one thing they all have in common...
 
what are you saying infantrycak? They were running behind the same line. the personnel was the same! Hollings doesnt have the vision, cutback ability, power, or intangables that Domanick has. He wont be a better back. If he was better, he would be STARTING! Case Closed.
 
And Davis cant carry the load, he gets hurt when he does.
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I would say this statement is a little strong at this point. RB's get injured. His injuries have not been the same injury over and over which would concern me that he was injury prone, they have been all sorts of different little things than come from getting pounded on but don't necessarily indicate being injury prone. Fred Taylor just completed two years without injury after being labelled injury prone.

Personally, I don't care about having one superstar RB and would just as soon have two guys getting 900 yds each as one guy getting 1500 yds and one at 300 yds.
 
& DD appears quicker to me also. If he's not careful with his work-out regimen by year 4 he may lose that advantage by bulking up too much.
 
Top 5 Running Backs
1. LaDanian Tomlinson
2. Jamal Lewis
3. Priest Holmes
4. Shawn Alexander
5. Fred Taylor(when healthy)

Jamal Lewis, Shawn Alexander, & Fred Taylor DO NOT have elite speed.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
in Tony Hollings' first start, he gained 26 rushing yards on 13 carries for an average of 2 ypc. Domanick Davis' first start, he gained 129yards on 21 carries for 6.1 ypc and a TD
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got my stats:
The Jets had the 28th ranked run defense yards wise and the 18th ranked yards per carry wise...

The Jags had the 2nd ranked run defense yards wise and the 1st ranked defense yards per carry wise... (and has infantrycak said the O-line was horrible that game and Ragone was starting)
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
Top 5 Running Backs
1. LaDanian Tomlinson
2. Jamal Lewis
3. Priest Holmes
4. Shawn Alexander
5. Fred Taylor(when healthy)

Jamal Lewis, Shawn Alexander, & Fred Taylor DO NOT have elite speed.
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yeah, they do. Gimme a minute and I will show you...
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
what are you saying infantrycak? They were running behind the same line. the personnel was the same!
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But the available game plan, the level of competition and the performance of that personnel was all different. Jets--1st string QB that the week before had thrown for 371 yds, against on of the bottom five run D teams and a very good outing by the OL vs. the 1st start for a rookie 3rd string QB (so obviously the game plan is incredibly simplified and run oriented giving the D an advantage to stack the box) against a #1 run D and the OL performed for crud having one of their three worst days on the season (the others being NO and TB where combined they gave up 13 of the 36 sacks given up all year i.e. almost 40% of the sacks given up all year) and were rather than opening holes for the RB were opening holes for the DL and LB's, oh and let's throw in the not fully recovered from knee surgery yet--seems pretty simple, not a fair comparison for judging the entire NFL career of two RB's

Hollings doesnt have the vision, cutback ability, power, or intangables that Domanick has. He wont be a better back. If he was better, he would be STARTING! Case Closed.
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No if he was healed he might be starting. Given your inclination to use such an unfair comparison to judge the two backs, I think I will stick with the Capers, Palmer & Casserly on thinking Hollings has potential.
 
I don't think anyone is suggesting that Davis isn't a very good back. However, he isn't among the elite backs in the league. He is a rookie back who got over a 1000 yards in his first season. It is a great accomplishment, but it is by no means prolific or amazing. Lots of backs came into the league with a splash, and then had no impact from then on in the game. Hollings value is based solely on potential at the moment. It's not a stretch to think that Hollings' potential is slightly higher than Davis'. Given that Hollings weaknesses can be corrected with playing time, coaching, etc., but speed cannot be taught. That is DD's main weakness. I tend to agree that neither will be the elite running back for the next decade, but I think that it is quite possible that Hollings would push DD for playing time now that he's a year removed from the ACL injury. All in all we have two good RBs who both have good potential. On a side note to address Beastlyman's comment about 'he's a starter end of story' remark I need only remind you that Emmitt Smith is the starter heading into camp for the Cardinals. I don't think anyone here thinks he will remain the starter when the season begins. I do not contend that Hollings will be the starter this year for the Texans. I am just simply illustrating that being listed as the starter in training camp doesn't mean very much.
 
__V__ said:
Dom and Duce run EXACTLY alike. Dom and Duce both are slashing rb's with limited speed and good hands.
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To be fair to Duce, he was a much more explosive back prior to his Y2K foot injury. He single handedly destroyed the cowgirls earlier that year.

Back on topic, Davis is the starting RB on the Texans and Hollings will have to show something extraordinary to take the job. Maybe he will, that would be a good situation to have.

Miami isn't giving up a #1 for Hollings. Or trading Adewale Ogunleye for Tony. Not now. Not going to happen, people.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
When Domanick played the Jags, he had 76 yards in the first half! What else ya got?
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Um, no he didn't. Domanick still was not the starter yet and had 16 carries for 53 yds on the day for an average of 3.3 ypc--one of his bottom three performances on the year ypc wise.

And when DD played the Jags he had Carr throwing for 234 yds. When Hollings played them, Ragone threw for 71.
 
yes but still the same defense and domanick had better yards and wasnt even starting! Hollings had the carries all to himself and couldnt muster 20 yards on the day behind the same o-line, and against the same defense.
 
Fiddy said:
yeah, they do. Gimme a minute and I will show you...
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Jamal Lewis last year broke off 82, 72, 63, 52, 35, 28, 25, 23, 21 yard runs

Shawn Alexander, although I think Green and Portis is better then him, last year broke off 55, 44, 35, 25, 23, 21 yard runs

Fred Taylor, although I think Green and Portis is better then him, last year broke off 42, 32, 28, 27, 25 yard runs

You can make a case that Taylor doesnt have break away speed, but I didnt think he was going to be in your top 5....
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
yes but still the same defense and domanick had better yards and wasnt even starting! Hollings had the carries all to himself and couldnt muster 20 yards on the day behind the same o-line, and against the same defense.
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Have you been reading. Ragone was starting that game and had 70 yards passing!!!!! It was a practice for the Jags....
 
I think the key point here is that with Carr the Texans offense wasn't one dimensional. With Ragone, the offense was one dimensional. Thus, allowing the defense to key in and stop the run. Essientially, the Jags had 8 men in the box on every down compared to Davis facing 7 men in the box the majority of the time.
 
I believe that Ragone had 51 yards rushing as well. As well as 2 fumbles, of which one he lost. Hollings also had a fumble that he lost too. The Jags defense had 3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, and one interception.

As for the game in Houston. Both Davis and Mack had fumbles that they lost, and Mack had 39 yards rushing and a TD. Does that make him better than Hollings & Davis as well? An elite back perhaps?
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
that doesnt prove that they are fast, it proves they had excellent downfield blocking.
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Yeah, but you have to be fast to get downfield and get by those blocks. DD wasnt that fast, against the Bengals he broke that 50 yarder but couldnt get pass AJ and Gaffney's blocks downfield. They were blocking for DD and kept pushing there guys back but DD couldnt get in front of the blocks and a guy caught him from behind....
 
How did Stacy Mack get into this conversation? and YES Stacy Mack is better than Hollings RIGHT NOW, maybe not in the future, but now.
 
I include Mack to point out that its deceptive to try and point to one game as a precursor for an entire career. Just as it is deceptive to think that one 1000 yard season means Davis will become an elite back. The point is they both have potential. It's just that, at the moment, Hollings' upside seems to be greater. It's not a knock on Davis at all.
 
AJ and Gaff where NOT blocking 50 yards DOWNFIELD! thats just stupid. he got caught from behind by a 180lb CB. And DD isnt the fastest, but he has SOME speed. even the fastest backs can get caught from behind. Someone is always faster.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
AJ and Gaff where NOT blocking 50 yards DOWNFIELD! thats just stupid. he got caught from behind by a 180lb CB. And DD isnt the fastest, but he has SOME speed. even the fastest backs can get caught from behind. Someone is always faster.
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Does anybody have that clip???? Because I clearly remember AJ driving his man downfield and DD not being able to blow by him. Maybe Gaff wasnt blocking, but I know AJ was blocking his man downfield...
 
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