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Old 11-15-2005   #1
yaboycm
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Default Take on re-signing Carr

If Carr was on a different team, performing at the level he is, and we paid him an $8 million bonus and signed him to a long term deal, all of you people would throw a fit. This year is a rebuidling year, next year will be a rebuilding year, and probably the year after that will be a rebuilding year. You don't pay below average players big bucks.

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Old 11-15-2005   #2
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Agreed
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Old 11-15-2005   #3
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Well this is interesting. By the way there are two options that we have for Carr and the one we are likely to excersise is for 5.5 million. With the pieces that we have here now we can acheive a good deal of success next year with the right FA's brought in. Instead of Bush 06 and Young 07, You should think Lecharles Bentley, some OLs, another CB and a some pass rush specialist.
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Old 11-15-2005   #4
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Bush 06
Young 07
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Old 11-15-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
Well this is interesting. By the way there are two options that we have for Carr and the one we are likely to excersise is for 5.5 million. With the pieces that we have here now we can acheive a good deal of success next year with the right FA's brought in. Instead of Bush 06 and Young 07, You should think Lecharles Bentley, some OLs, another CB and a some pass rush specialist.
I have not heard of this option. Do you know the contract details of both the 5.5 and 8 million bonuses? Specifically length.

You gave an excellent reason why we should not re-sign Carr. We should use that money to spend on free agents so we have a solid nucleus for Young when get gets here. Making for an easier transition for him. Specifically we should spend money on the O-Line. But also find key defensive players to plug in. The offense would be set. Johnson, Mathis, Armstong, Bush, and a draft pick would be fine at receiver. Davis, Bush, and Wells would be fine at RB. AND WE NEED A TE. I suggest David Thomas, a senior with great hands from Texas. Oh, and he is Young's favorite target. This offense would be tough enough to defend, then you throw in Young's ability to run. You talk about a tough offense to make a game plan for. This is why Texas is so effective, they have so many guys who can make plays and a few who are versitle.
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Old 11-15-2005   #6
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Texas is a college team and that does not matter much why they are effective. I dont care about why UT is effective ll I want to be effective is the Texans. The 5.5 option is a reason to keep Carr. We will part ways with a decent amount of players this offseason so we should have a decent amount of money to put playmakers as you would like around a better QB in CARR.
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Old 11-15-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaboycm
I have not heard of this option. Do you know the contract details of both the 5.5 and 8 million bonuses? Specifically length.
Two year option: $5.5 mill s/b, base salaries of $5 mill in '06 and $5.25 mill in '07.

Three year option: $8 mill s/b, base salaries of $5.25 mill in '06 and '07, and $6 mill in '08.

I favor the two year option.
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Old 11-15-2005   #8
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Originally Posted by aj.
Two year option: $5.5 mill s/b, base salaries of $5 mill in '06 and $5.25 mill in '07.

Three year option: $8 mill s/b, base salaries of $5.25 mill in '06 and '07, and $6 mill in '08.

I favor the two year option.


I favor Not picking up the Bonus and try and restructure another contract something more about the line as of 900,000 base salary a year wich would would be plenty the way the man has been playing.
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Old 11-15-2005   #9
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No QB can survive with the horrible O-Line you have. It's a fact. Carr would be a very good QB if you had a solid O-Line. Vince Young, Leinhart, or any other QB will get kiled there. Id you do end up drafting a QB it could end up like the Eli situation with SD.

Anyway good luck down the stretch. Glad to see AirDre back from his injury too which should help big time.
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Old 11-15-2005   #10
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We need Vince
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Old 11-15-2005   #11
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Being an orange blood, I love Vince. Unfortunately, Vince would look like a deer in the headlights behind our offensive line.
We need an offensive line COACH. I read today where the Patriots entire offensive line salary cap figure this year is less than Walter Jones cap figure. It seems they can plug in rookies and other teams cast offs and do just fine. It has to be the coaching.
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Old 11-15-2005   #12
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I am voting for Dennison from Denver
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Old 11-15-2005   #13
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I would be LESS upset about it if he was on a winning team. Should they keep him at that price? At this point, I really don't know. I thought his protection against Indy was pretty good and he didn't impress me at all. The main thing I remember is that bomb he threw way too deep for AJ when the defender was in a better position to run that far. The only thing that stopped an int. was the fact that the throw was so horrible. That was one of the most brain-dead AND inaccurate throws I've ever seen. I don't even think it was a safety issue. The corner just had AJ beat deep.

I've defended Carr in the past and I still think he has a lot of heart, but I'm starting to wonder about that accuracy that he never seems to actually show and also about his decision making skills that a lot of people have questioned. Maybe I just expected too much when he finally got decent protection.
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Old 11-15-2005   #14
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Here's just a thought I'm throwing out there.

What if we played Ragone for a half and Carr for a half in our next 3 or so ball games?

I think it would fairly evaluate how Carr's performing rather than just simply benching him and letting Ragone play against what is supposed to be easier teams in 5 of the last 7 games. If Ragone outplays him, Ragone earns more playing time and McNair has something to think about before just handing over $8 million plus $5.5 million salary for 2 years and $6 million for one more to a QB who hasn't shown too much more than incredible guts and a decent start last year. If Ragone isn't the QB that he looked like in Europe and stinks things up, it should be a lot easier signing Carr and looking for coaching and line help. To me this sounds like a sound business decision. Who cares about trying Banks because he is not the QB of our future. This is just to see if Ragone might be. Remember, Tom Brady replaced a former number one overall pick while he was in his second year after being drafted in the 6th round, 199th overall.
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Old 11-15-2005   #15
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3 and 1/2 years with awful protection and 2 or 3 games with a little better than awful protection. im going to give him a little more time than that before i give up on him.

and the better protection is partly because we are keeping 7 or 8 guys in to block and sending 1 or 2 recievers on routes. so carr doesnt have much of an option to throw downfield. forcing him to dump the ball off. then we boo.
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Old 11-15-2005   #16
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Originally Posted by markbeth
3 and 1/2 years with awful protection and 2 or 3 games with a little better than awful protection. im going to give him a little more time than that before i give up on him.

and the better protection is partly because we are keeping 7 or 8 guys in to block and sending 1 or 2 recievers on routes. so carr doesnt have much of an option to throw downfield. forcing him to dump the ball off. then we boo.
You have nothing for comparison to this point. I'm not saying we dump him right now. I'm saying we see if under similar circumstances someone else outperforms him. How many people do you think were calling for Bellichek's(sp?) head when Bledsoe got healthy and didn't return to the line-up? We're at a point in our season where we can go ahead and see what the other guy's got. They'll be running the same offense behind the same line. Maybe we'll see no difference and it won't make any pictures clearer but what if Ragone steps in and starts finding guys 15 yards downfield while Carr continues his 5-8 yard passes? Wouldn't that start making you at least think about Carr's decision making? It's an experiment that could help make McNair's decision easier. It might also give him leverage to renegotiate the terms of Carr's deal. What have we got to lose?
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Old 11-15-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan80Buc80fan+
No QB can survive with the horrible O-Line you have. It's a fact. Carr would be a very good QB if you had a solid O-Line. Vince Young, Leinhart, or any other QB will get kiled there. Id you do end up drafting a QB it could end up like the Eli situation with SD.
I could see that happening. I want to know what other QB would want to come here after seeing what Carr has gone through. They didn't address the needs on offense and he has suffered b/c of it. I favor that second option as well. However, if there is room for discussion on another contract for less - after all you've gotta hold yourself accountable and ask yourself if your play was really worth that check

Re-sign him, address and fix the offensive line, new coach - new WIN NOW attitude, and let's give it a go.
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Old 11-15-2005   #18
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i'm in full belief that carr's option, atleast the two-year variety, will be picked up. what i'm most curious about, is those that are praising young and bush to be the next marino and sanders, are yall willingfully ignorant to the fact that our biggest problems are NOT the "skill" positions? our offensive line + TE and our defensive front 7 are ranking with the worst in the league ... the O-line running for the crown of worst EVER. will replacing carr magically make our blocking better? no. if history has any say so, adding a running qb will make it MORE difficult to pass block.

what's carr's problem? he was thrown into the worst situation imaginable ... an expansion team with a new (and terrible) coach, an immediate thrust into the fire of pro football, and no cohesion (or talent) with the guys infront of him. what would be different if we were to toss out carr and bring in young or leinhart? capers and several coaches appear to be on their way out, along with the possibility of the GM. the O-line is as bad now, if not worse. and a fresh draft pick would have noone to sit behind and study for a year to acclimate themself with the change of speed and intensity. maybe i'm entirely off base, but that smells to me like (another) ruining of a lot of potential.

is carr the answer to what we need at qb? maybe not. but i guarantee he's a lot more capable of winning at this level than whatever flavor of the month is currently playing on saturdays.

that being said, if young were to wait and come out after next season, and we've addressed more pressing concerns, then by all means he might make a great pick. he'd have a year to sit behind carr (assuming 2 year option), and we'd hopefully use this year's very high set of draft picks to trade down and stockpile talent/add depth. that would be a 2 or 3 year plan though and many fans have very little patience left, if any.
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Old 11-15-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
Well this is interesting. By the way there are two options that we have for Carr and the one we are likely to excersise is for 5.5 million. With the pieces that we have here now we can acheive a good deal of success next year with the right FA's brought in. Instead of Bush 06 and Young 07, You should think Lecharles Bentley, some OLs, another CB and a some pass rush specialist.
Well said, and probably our most likely option. Carr isn't going anywhere, folks, so the weekly ditch-Carr-draft-Young thread isn't going to change anything.

Besides, we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If we draft a QB, we need to sit him for a year or two in order for us to build a solid o-line and let him grow into the NFL. If there is any lesson to be learned about Carr, it's the fact that starting a rookie QB is a sketchy proposition, at best.

Better leadership and coaching, along with some good draft picks and FA signings, could change this team in a season (or two at the most) .

LOUD, PROUD, & TEXAN!

See you Sunday night!
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Old 11-16-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
Besides, we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If we draft a QB, we need to sit him for a year or two in order for us to build a solid o-line and let him grow into the NFL. Better leadership and coaching, along with some good draft picks and FA signings, could change this team in a season (or two at the most) .
Could we have just a smidge of good sense here? Carr is over. Maybe he's a great guy, devout, spiritually excellent, a model in the community. Maybe on another team he will excel LIKE HE DID FOR 1 YEAR IN COLLEGE. But most important is: WE DON'T NEED HIM NOW. Yes, I'm shouting. I apologize. But lots of folks are not looking at the big picture. Carr's had a dreadful time here, and he needs a fresh start. We need draft picks. Carr might be worth a draft pick if somebody out there still thinks he can be a top flight QB (I doubt this, but they say there's one born every minute; plus, maybe Carr will be great with a change of scene, new coaches, a new line, etc).

So, we should sign Carr to the short term deal, and trade him in the off season before the draft. Add the draft picks to our stock and then hope the NEW GM & COACH can do better than the departing Mutt & Jeff. We don't need to draft any specific QB, though that would be up to the new coach and GM. I'm hoping that's 1 person, the savvy, talent-wise JJ. But if somebody else, whoever it is cannot be worse than the squirrels currently running the show.

The question I have, being the 40 year fan that I am, is whether or not this "sign him and trade him" scenario is even possible in the NFL nowadays.
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