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Old 11-14-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by WWJD
The best player out of all those is at the bottom of that list..Andre.
Andre's hit will be about the same as Carr's next year. Carr will have about 15 million in cap hit the next two seasons if we pick up his deal as is.
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Old 11-14-2005   #22
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When Pendry took over Carr started watching film with the rest of the offense as well.
I'd never heard that before. I agree, that's a little weird. But did his dad have anything to do with that? Why didn't the coaches just tell him three years ago to watch film with his team? How do we know that's not a Palmer thing leftover?

I think a lot of this is speculation, and really on the gossip side of things. Sure, I understand the rule of banning his dad and all, but it is nothing but wild eyed theories beyond that.

Besides, they won 7 games last season with his dad there, and they've won 1 this year. I don't think it's working.

They can change little things all they want to, but the reality is nothing but a BIG change at the top is going to make a difference, IMO.
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Old 11-14-2005   #23
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Originally Posted by Double Barrel
I'd never heard that before. I agree, that's a little weird. But did his dad have anything to do with that? Why didn't the coaches just tell him three years ago to watch film with his team? How do we know that's not a Palmer thing leftover?
I don't think it was Carr that watched the film in one room and the rest of the offense in another. I think it was more like the offensive line in one group and the "skill" positions together in another. I could be wrong about that; I've never asked anybody about it specifically.

It is still pretty weird though. I can see some film study by unit, but you'd think they'd also get together as an offense and coordinate.
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Old 11-14-2005   #24
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Originally Posted by Vinny
When Pendry took over Carr started watching film with the rest of the offense as well. That just reeks of coddling.
Where did you hear that? The way I remember the radio reports, the O as a whole starting watching film together instead of in units--don't recall them specifying what the units were much less saying Carr had separate film sessions from the team or other QB's.

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....and it's just hard to argue that his play hasn't improved.
Well it certainly improved from the 1st few games of this season, but IMO it isn't anything close to the first half of last season. Don't know where that leaves the core problem, Palmer, Pendry, Capers, Carr, OL, etc. but he is looking better than his miserable start this year.

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Can you see Biggio or Bagwells Dad at the Astros practice?
Not saying you made a big deal of this, but just surprised this has become such a big deal period. Fact is there are lots of friends and family members that get invited around the various leagues to practices--we just don't hear about it 99% of the time. Carr's dad took advantage of the privilege more than most, but so what if according to the staff, if anything he agreed with them. On the flip side, as gr8 effectively said, no reason to read anything into this about Carr since the rule was for everyone--it's not like DD's dad is welcome but they kicked out Carr's dad. Wow, people are stretching for things nowadays.
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Old 11-15-2005   #25
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Well i have been hearing about David's Dad pampering him at every practice for years now. i recall about 2 or 3 months back on sports radio 610 they were saying how the coaching staff had told all the team about not having family members going to practice and david's dad kept going you would think David would step up and tell his dad he doesnt need him to bring his lunch everyday.
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Old 11-15-2005   #26
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Maybe the old man sells food from a roach coach and players just buy food and snacks during practice. maybe thats the reason these guys are soooo slow:brickwall
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Old 11-15-2005   #27
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Where did you hear that? The way I remember the radio reports, the O as a whole starting watching film together instead of in units--don't recall them specifying what the units were much less saying Carr had separate film sessions from the team or other QB's.
Well seems you heard something along those lines too since you brought up knowledge of the team watching film in their position groups. I don't mean to be argumentative but Carr is the only starter in his position group, so that had him watching film alone, away from the other starters on offense. I'm certainly not blaming Carr for that.
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Well it certainly improved from the 1st few games of this season, but IMO it isn't anything close to the first half of last season. Don't know where that leaves the core problem, Palmer, Pendry, Capers, Carr, OL, etc. but he is looking better than his miserable start this year.
I mentioned the whole change from the Palmer coddling style to the Pendry changes as noticing Carr playing better. The first half of last season we beat up on some pretty bad defenses too (Vikings defense was the only team Carr has ever tossed 3TD's against)...but yeah, better - but not better than a specific couple of games out of his 50 something career starts.

The bottom line on how I see it is that I don't really care if his Pops is at the practice but I sure do want to see him treated like everyone else and not given special privileges. That is one quick way to lose the guys you are trying to lead and how to garner resentment from the others.
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Old 11-15-2005   #28
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Man this thread is full of half truths, stretches, wierd angles, you name it. Big deal his dad was asked not come to the practices anymore. Some of you are acting like Carr is not a team player. Does anyone remember Carr inviting down AJ in the offseason to work together? A 1-8 season is almost like a hallucinagen to some people around here.
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Old 11-15-2005   #29
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Originally Posted by Vinny
Well seems you heard something along those lines too since you brought up knowledge of the team watching film in their position groups. I don't mean to be argumentative but Carr is the only starter in his position group, so that had him watching film alone, away from the other starters on offense. I'm certainly not blaming Carr for that.

The bottom line on how I see it is that I don't really care if his Pops is at the practice but I sure do want to see him treated like everyone else and not given special privileges. That is one quick way to lose the guys you are trying to lead and how to garner resentment from the others.
I certainly agree with the special treatment statement, but from what I have heard this wasn't a Carr rule, it was just that Carr's dad used it more than others.

On the film review, I never heard it broken down past "units" whether that be all the QB's or QB's and WR's, whatever, and the grouping was done by the coach (Palmer?) not the players--that's why I was asking if you had heard anything specific about solo film review or an actual request by Carr that this was his idea rather than Palmer's. Carr shouldn't get coddled and if they have in terms of special treatment they have been wrong, but I don't want to see revisionist crud like Napa's post above which speaks for itself in the credibility department.
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Old 11-15-2005   #30
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
... but I don't want to see revisionist crud like Napa's post above which speaks for itself in the credibility department.
I'm with you on that and I think that most of these issues are coaching/management issues and not David Carr issues. I do think that if he is handled more intelligently he will probably continue to play better. We do need to see him with a new staff and I think that would only be fair to him as well.
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Old 11-15-2005   #31
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Carr's dad is inspired by Donavon Mcnabb's Mom on the soup commercial ... and he thinks he can land a deal with Chef Boyardee .
Carr should have been a womens tennis player . Roger would fit right in there .
All this leads to bad chemistry which you clearly see on the field ... now throw in running out of bounds and losing 5 yards . Ah shucks now my team has lost respect for what should be their leader . That probably has something to do with the sack total . Thats why I'd like to see Ragone play . I want to see if the team rally's around him looking for a leader .
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Old 11-15-2005   #32
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Coddled, protected, prima donna golden boy.....if accurate, then there's undoubtedly much resentment among teammates. That's the kind of stuff fans rarely see evidence of - except for the occaisonal sideline argument with a teammate, or the occaisional murmur from a beat writer or a talking head on the radio, or the occaisional on-field tantrum, - but that can be the most destructive to the "team" fabric.

It's time to grow up. There's an offense waiting for someone to lead it - inside the locker room and meeting rooms - not just in media sound bites or newspaper quotes.

#8 has shown that he can do the job - at times - and he'll have a new O system next season and a three year extension, making him among the elite paid QBs in the league even though he has been anything but. Hopefully there will also be a new o-lineman or two in the mix next year to help the cause, but astute followers of the team can see that the o-line isn't the only problem.
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Old 11-15-2005   #33
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Do u really think there is a seperate film room for Carr only and that only he and his dad could get in there? Seriously, did the other quarterbacks on the team have to stand outside the door instead of studying the film and learning? Get a grip people! His dad was at practice, big deal! I don't think Capers or Palmer said "i'm not gonna yell at David because his dad is here and i don't want his dad's feelings hurt!"
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Old 11-15-2005   #34
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This rivals that trade DD thread a few weeks ago as the dumbest on here. It's not like Carr's dad was the only one allowed in practice before Capers made that rule, he was probably the only one that lives in the area and he liked to come out and watch practices and see how the team was playing. It's not like he was out there "coddling" David as some of you have put it and it's not like he was sitting around the stadium all day with David. Capers instituted this no-family or guests rule and made it apply to Carr as well. How is that coddling him or treating him different from everyone else? This was a ridiculous article posted in the newspaper in the first place and a bunch of people who don't know anything about the situation responding to it and trying to use it to further their views on why the team isn't playing well.

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Old 11-15-2005   #35
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In a game thats as tough as proffesional football ... you don't think having whats supposed to be your star acting like its Mayberry is gonna hurt .

Name another player who's Dad retired and started going to practices . Archie Manning did'nt do it and he was a pro QB . We might as well give out juice boxes and cookies after games . I can see Bum getting hammered with Pastorini's Dad after beating San Diego .
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Old 11-15-2005   #36
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Pretty sad that that is the best thing Justice could think of for his article.
Justice is a baseball writer...He's not exactly “Johnny Insight" when it comes to the Texans or analytical football opinion.
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Old 11-15-2005   #37
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
but IMO it isn't anything close to the first half of last season.
People keep talking about Carr's first few games last year. He definitely passed well but it was against the Who's Who of Worst Pass Defenses. Go back and look. Here were our first 6 opponents in 2004 and their ranking in pass defense:

San Diego 31
Detroit 20
Kansas City 32
Oakland 30
Minnesota 29
Tennessee 26

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statis...on=2&year=2004

I'll give Carr credit for taking advantage of the situation. He was definitely playing better than at any other point in his pro career, but lets keep it in perspective. Heck AJ Feeley might even look good after 6 games against those opponents.
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Old 11-15-2005   #38
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Yes I agree, this is just a really dumb topic to argue or debate. If I could have my dad watch me play a game, and yes folks it is still just a game, then I'd love to have him out every chance I got.

Any knowledgable fan can see it's not all on Carr, it's everyone.
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Old 11-15-2005   #39
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maybe Carr could bring an entourage like some basketball players do, but its his dad...I personally could care less if he is there but get real people, like i said in a previous post I don't think the coaches were being easy on David because his dad was there
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Old 11-15-2005   #40
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I agree its not just Carr . The coaches and gm are the bottom line on anything that went wrong . The gm trumps the coach . I would clean house and evaluate my talent pronto .
Its amazing how we took a wrong turn so quickly ... but there were omens . This team now has an LA Clipper attitude and how do you rinse that off .
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