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Old 11-15-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by oso
I'm pretty sure that's what Gruden was thinking, too, but as much as I want the kid to succeed like his dad did, he's looking pretty bad. One good game does not cure everything. Let's see how he's doing after the next three or four.
He's put up better #'s in his 3 career starts than some other QB I know about in his 50+ when it comes to leading his team to a victory
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Old 11-15-2005   #22
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True, but assuming Tampa ever took him to a playoff or "big game" - say MNF or something, history says he will nosedive big time.
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Old 11-15-2005   #23
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I agree, but it is 20/20 backside vision. Heck, the whole state of Texas would have drafted Major Applewhite, let alone anyone else, over Simms if they were a GM.
I guess am the naysayer here. I was pissed we drafted Ragone when Simms was still on the board. There is no way I would have drafted Applewhite as an NFL QB.
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Old 11-15-2005   #24
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Applewhite had too many injuries. He had such a head for the game, though, that I hoped he would go into coaching or something.
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Old 11-15-2005   #25
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Originally Posted by oso
Sims is a real head-case. I got to watch him at Texas. He played great so long as nobody was watching the game, but as soon as he got in a nationally-televised game, he lost his head. The pressure got to him and he would throw a bunch of interceptions. I was hoping that he would learn and grow in TB. I'm pretty sure that's what Gruden was thinking, too, but as much as I want the kid to succeed like his dad did, he's looking pretty bad. One good game does not cure everything. Let's see how he's doing after the next three or four.
The one game I blame Simms for was the 2001 Big 12 Championship Game against Colorado. That game lands squarely on his shoulders. However, I blame that game plan by Greg Davis for a lot of the problems we had. I would guess that approximately 50 percent of Chris Simms attempts were flat passes. They never threw the ball downfield. It was so aggravating. That is a key reason that Simms threw so many INT's run back for TD's. If you throw to the flats too much, you will get burned.
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Old 11-15-2005   #26
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I can see where you're going, but Simms went bust (through many interceptions) in games against Oklahoma, bowl appearances, everywhere. They never beat a top-10 team with Simms at the helm. Now Tampa needed 8 games before Simms could win. To me, that's a pattern. Simms was fine so long as he was playing teams nobody heard of or the Baylors of the world. He also had some really good games. But when I look at the whole package - I wouldn't want him at QB in a big game.
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Old 11-15-2005   #27
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Originally Posted by oso
I can see where you're going, but Simms went bust (through many interceptions) in games against Oklahoma, bowl appearances, everywhere. They never beat a top-10 team with Simms at the helm. Now Tampa needed 8 games before Simms could win. To me, that's a pattern. Simms was fine so long as he was playing teams nobody heard of or the Baylors of the world. He also had some really good games. But when I look at the whole package - I wouldn't want him at QB in a big game.
This was only Simms' third start this season, right? And he had one start last season? Am I missing something?
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Old 11-15-2005   #28
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So is Ragone considered another blown pick ?
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Old 11-15-2005   #29
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Originally Posted by oso
I can see where you're going, but Simms went bust (through many interceptions) in games against Oklahoma, bowl appearances, everywhere. They never beat a top-10 team with Simms at the helm. Now Tampa needed 8 games before Simms could win. To me, that's a pattern. Simms was fine so long as he was playing teams nobody heard of or the Baylors of the world. He also had some really good games. But when I look at the whole package - I wouldn't want him at QB in a big game.
He looked pretty good against Washington on Sunday. That was a key game against a team that they are probably competing with for a wild card spot. And how many top 10 teams did the Horns play with Simms at the helm? OU twice? Applewhite and Young had far worse losses to OU than Simms. In fact, we were in both games in 2001 and 2002. Simms did throw 4 picks in one of those OU games, but if you go back and look, only 1 of the 4 was Simms fault. The other 3 were tipped balls by the receivers. IMO, that 2001 Big 12 Championship Game was his only horrible game. He had some other games that were subpar, but that was the only loss that falls squarely on his shoulders.
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Old 11-15-2005   #30
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Originally Posted by oso
Applewhite had too many injuries. He had such a head for the game, though, that I hoped he would go into coaching or something.
Out of college, Applewhite signed a free agent contract with the Pats but quickly returned the signing bonus and walked away--instead, he became an offensive Grad Asst at UT--now, he is the QB Coach at Syracuse
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Old 11-15-2005   #31
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
I am sorry, but this is a fan theory only that just doesn't hold up to reality. There is no way Casserly and Capers are going to blissfully be ridden out of town on a 2-14 season thinking man am I glad no one knows Ragone gave us a better chance to win some of those games. These guys are fighting for their jobs. I don't agree with how they are going about it, but I seriously doubt they are making any conscious decision which they feel gives them less of a chance of winning.
You're probably right, infantrycak, because I don't think this staff is smart enough for a conspiracy.

However, I find it strange that the coaches are willing to bench two starters for bad play, fire a coordinator two games into a season, release proven veteran leadership in the off-season...but they won't bench Carr for even a moment. And he's clearly had opportunities that he should have been benched for the rest of the game. (Pick any point of the first six games that we never had a lead).

It's just strange coincidences, I'm sure. But maybe there is something to the theory that he's being "protected" from above...
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Old 11-15-2005   #32
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You can't be on "I live for Sundays " commercials if your benched . The Texans have nobody else to market is the darkhorse in this race .
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Old 11-15-2005   #33
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You can't be on "I live for Sundays " commercials if your benched . The Texans have nobody else to market is the darkhorse in this race .
Or HEB commercials, for that matter!

LOUD, PROUD, & TEXAN!

See ya' on Sunday night!
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Old 11-15-2005   #34
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In the NFL Europe, at least Ragone had an offensive line!!

I bet he doesn't want to play behind the Texans O line...he would be scared to death...
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Old 11-15-2005   #35
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Out of college, Applewhite signed a free agent contract with the Pats but quickly returned the signing bonus and walked away--instead, he became an offensive Grad Asst at UT--now, he is the QB Coach at Syracuse
Thanks for the info. I don't know how he is doing at Syracuse, but I think he will make a great coach.
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Old 11-15-2005   #36
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He looked pretty good against Washington on Sunday. That was a key game against a team that they are probably competing with for a wild card spot. And how many top 10 teams did the Horns play with Simms at the helm? OU twice? Applewhite and Young had far worse losses to OU than Simms. In fact, we were in both games in 2001 and 2002. Simms did throw 4 picks in one of those OU games, but if you go back and look, only 1 of the 4 was Simms fault. The other 3 were tipped balls by the receivers. IMO, that 2001 Big 12 Championship Game was his only horrible game. He had some other games that were subpar, but that was the only loss that falls squarely on his shoulders.
He showed some real promise in the Tampa game. I would love to see him do well as Tampa's QB. I have been pleased to see so many Longhorns becoming top-rated players in the NFL. Unfortunately, I've lost my UT tapes, so I can't go back and look at those plays. I'll take your word for it. The blame can rarely be set on any one player, the Texans prove that week in and week out, but after a while you start to see a pattern. I think that is why Simms wasn't a first-rounder. Great ability, but questionable mentallity.
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Old 11-15-2005   #37
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Originally Posted by oso
The blame can rarely be set on any one player, the Texans prove that week in and week out, but after a while you start to see a pattern. I think that is why Simms wasn't a first-rounder. Great ability, but questionable mentallity.
I definitely have some reservations about him. I just think the criticism was overemphasized. I think that is key reason he slipped in the draft. The negative propaganda (for lack of a better phrase) surrounding the Applewhite and Simms situation nearly killed his career before it started.

I don't know if he will turn out to be a good QB. I just don't feel like he has been given a fair opportunity. I don't think Greg Davis handled him very well. I felt like Simms left UT basically the same as he arrived. I was beginning to feel the same way about Young until the mid-point of last season. I still don't like Greg Davis. I will have to see what he does with his next prospect to change my mind.
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Old 11-15-2005   #38
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Originally Posted by TheOgre
I definitely have some reservations about him. I just think the criticism was overemphasized. I think that is key reason he slipped in the draft. The negative propaganda (for lack of a better phrase) surrounding the Applewhite and Simms situation nearly killed his career before it started.

I don't know if he will turn out to be a good QB. I just don't feel like he has been given a fair opportunity. I don't think Greg Davis handled him very well. I felt like Simms left UT basically the same as he arrived. I was beginning to feel the same way about Young until the mid-point of last season. I still don't like Greg Davis. I will have to see what he does with his next prospect to change my mind.
Bingo on Greg Davis.
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