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Old 11-13-2005   #1
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Default Another Big Time Bust at OT

"The Bills have replaced right tackle Mike Williams, the former fourth overall pick from University of Texas, with Jon Peters, an undrafted free agent Buffalo signed last year. Peters played tight end at Arkansas.
Williams has been moved to left guard. It is the first time he has played on the left side or at guard. He will split time with Bennie Anderson.
Williams, who has been bothered by a sprained ankle, makes $7.3 million this season. He is the highest-paid player on the team. His cap figure in 2006 is $9.5 million. If he rejects a salary cut for the second year in a row, the Bills are expected to get rid of him.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3457304
************************************************** **
Mike Williams was taken 4th overall in the 2002 Draft behind only Carr, DE Peppers, & QB Harrington. That's an awfull high draft pick and a gob of cap
money to use on a guy who was expected to be a star offensive tackle in the NFL but is now platooning at guard and very likely to be cut in
the offseason. To add insult to injury, Williams lost his job to an undrafted FA.
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Old 11-13-2005   #2
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Quentin Jammer and Roy Williams turned out to be pretty good. Although they were in the 5-10 range.
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Old 11-13-2005   #3
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I'll admit that he was drafted pretty high and that a CB drafted that high should be one of the better CB's in the league, but I wouldn't consider him a total bust.
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Old 11-13-2005   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
Quentin Jammer and Roy Williams turned out to be pretty good. Although they were in the 5-10 range.
Jammer is overrated.
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Old 11-13-2005   #5
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Successful Picks:
1 1 David Carr Texans QB Fresno State
2 2 Julius Peppers Panthers DE North Carolina
5 5 Quentin Jammer Chargers DB Texas
7 7 Bryant McKinnie Vikings T Miami (FL)
8 8 Roy Williams Cowboys DB Oklahoma
9 9 John Henderson Jaguars DT Tennessee
11 11 Dwight Freeney Colts DE Syracuse
13 13 Donte Stallworth Saints WR Tennessee
14 14 Jeremy Shockey Giants TE Miami (FL)
15 15 Albert Haynesworth Titans DT Tennessee
18 18 T.J. Duckett Falcons RB Michigan State
19 19 Ashley Lelie Broncos WR Hawaii
20 20 Javon Walker Packers WR Florida State

All those guys are pretty solid players for their various teams. Maybe they don't live up to their pick (Aka Stallworth no where near Walker) but they are solid
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Old 11-13-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
The 2002 draft class was extremely weak and was a bad year to stock a franchise with extra picks.
I agree with this statement strictly from a draft prospect side. Casserly did not have as much to work with if for instance he could have had similar talent to the 04 draft. But thats just the way things happened. the 2003 & 2005 drafts where both slightly better, but the drafting and trades made them seem even worse & that is Casserly's fault, of course I've heard him say that Cappers & the coaching staff wanted this or that guy. looks like a package deal, if one stays they should all stay or if one goes they all should go, lately I'm leaning towards the latter
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Old 11-13-2005   #7
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Succesfull picks so far year to date.


2 2 Julius Peppers Panthers DE North Carolina

5 5 Quentin Jammer Chargers DB Texas < Borderline

8 8 Roy Williams Cowboys DB Oklahoma

7 7 Bryant McKinnie Vikings T Miami (FL)

9 9 John Henderson Jaguars DT Tennessee

11 11 Dwight Freeney Colts DE Syracuse < The Best OF 2002 IMO

14 14 Jeremy Shockey Giants TE Miami (FL)

20 20 Javon Walker Packers WR Florida State
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Old 11-14-2005   #8
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Mike williams would probably be better than what we have right now
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Old 11-14-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst
Jammer is overrated.
How is he even rated?
He's lucky if anyone calls him average.
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Old 11-14-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
"The Bills have replaced right tackle Mike Williams, the former fourth overall pick from University of Texas, with Jon Peters, an undrafted free agent Buffalo signed last year. Peters played tight end at Arkansas.
Williams has been moved to left guard. It is the first time he has played on the left side or at guard. He will split time with Bennie Anderson.
Williams, who has been bothered by a sprained ankle, makes $7.3 million this season. He is the highest-paid player on the team. His cap figure in 2006 is $9.5 million. If he rejects a salary cut for the second year in a row, the Bills are expected to get rid of him.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3457304
************************************************** **
Mike Williams was taken 4th overall in the 2002 Draft behind only Carr, DE Peppers, & QB Harrington. That's an awfull high draft pick and a gob of cap
money to use on a guy who was expected to be a star offensive tackle in the NFL but is now platooning at guard and very likely to be cut in
the offseason. To add insult to injury, Williams lost his job to an undrafted FA.
This can't be. He was a Longhorn after all.
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Old 11-14-2005   #11
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I'm suprised that McKinney is still a LT, he doesn't sustain his blocks and is lazy. He is nowhere near as dominate as he should be.
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Old 11-15-2005   #12
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I was realling pushing for us to get Peters too.
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Old 11-15-2005   #13
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And Peters is the guy that caught a TD against us back in week 1. This guy is over 300 pounds and has better hands than Corey Bradford.
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Old 11-15-2005   #14
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I've come to the conclusion that an expansion team should never use its 1st round pick in year 1 on a QB (see Kerry Collins, Tim Couch, and David Carr). It just isn't logical. The guy will get pounded to no end and be surrounded by subpar talent those first couple of years. It just isn't a recipe for success.

Instead, I think a team needs to spend that first round pick on the best available player preferably at OLT, RDE/ROLB (4-3/3-4) pass rusher, CB, or WR. Build a foundation and a situation for a young QB to flourish. Bring in a veteran QB, someone that has been a backup but has starter potential , to lead the team for the first 2 years. Then in year 3 (whether the guy is drafted year 2 or 3), throw the young lad out there and see what he's got.

That is my take on it.
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Old 11-15-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
The 2002 draft class was extremely weak and was a bad year to stock a franchise with extra picks. Peppers will likely be the only perennial Pro Bowler out of the top 5. Picks 10-20 have turned out many players better than their top 10 counterparts.

1 1 David Carr Texans QB Fresno State
2 2 Julius Peppers Panthers DE North Carolina
3 3 Joey Harrington Lions QB Oregon
4 4 Mike Williams Bills T Texas
5 5 Quentin Jammer Chargers DB Texas
6 6 Ryan Sims Chiefs DT North Carolina
7 7 Bryant McKinnie Vikings T Miami (FL)
8 8 Roy Williams Cowboys DB Oklahoma
9 9 John Henderson Jaguars DT Tennessee
10 10 Levi Jones Bengals T Arizona State
11 11 Dwight Freeney Colts DE Syracuse
12 12 Wendell Bryant Cardinals DT Wisconsin
13 13 Donte Stallworth Saints WR Tennessee
14 14 Jeremy Shockey Giants TE Miami (FL)
15 15 Albert Haynesworth Titans DT Tennessee
16 16 William Green Browns RB Boston College
17 17 Phillip Buchanon Raiders DB Miami (FL)
18 18 T.J. Duckett Falcons RB Michigan State
19 19 Ashley Lelie Broncos WR Hawaii
20 20 Javon Walker Packers WR Florida State
2 names in this list stand out to me.
Dwight Sweeney and Jeremy Shockey. I bet the later rounds produced some starters..
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Old 11-15-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
I've come to the conclusion that an expansion team should never use its 1st round pick in year 1 on a QB (see Kerry Collins, Tim Couch, and David Carr). It just isn't logical. The guy will get pounded to no end and be surrounded by subpar talent those first couple of years. It just isn't a recipe for success.
Maybe the rule should be don't play him in year 1 even if you draft him in year 1. The Texans were very unlucky to start in 2002. Right now the draft isn't looking great at any of the typical franchise spots--QB (Carr, Harrington), LT (Williams, McKinnie), RB (Green, Duckett) or WR (Stallworth, Lelie). Basically if you were position fascinated you were screwed as an expansion team. Should have taken the best athlete Peppers.
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Old 11-15-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeBred_Texan
2 names in this list stand out to me.
Dwight Sweeney and Jeremy Shockey. I bet the later rounds produced some starters..
As I recall, Freeny was considered as massive reach at his draft position..
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Old 11-15-2005   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Maybe the rule should be don't play him in year 1 even if you draft him in year 1. The Texans were very unlucky to start in 2002. Right now the draft isn't looking great at any of the typical franchise spots--QB (Carr, Harrington), LT (Williams, McKinnie), RB (Green, Duckett) or WR (Stallworth, Lelie). Basically if you were position fascinated you were screwed as an expansion team. Should have taken the best athlete Peppers.
I thought the plan was ok, but the selection of personnel was the key to the downfall in my book. Yes we had some bad luck, but really we took a guy that had 2 surgeries and wasn't even cleared to play yet. But that's an old argument for the ages.

I liked the idea of having a good solid defense to build on and draft players to learn behind the veterans. I also like have the mindset to build an offensive line first then worry about the WR, TE's and RB after that solid foundation. Drafting a highly touted QB was not the problem. Instead of putting him into the fire and molding him, we put him into the fire to burn. One of my biggest pet peeves on Capers from the beginning was allowing Carr to be a starter from the start. I know there's no benefit one way or the other, but on an expansion team when you don't have all the pieces in place, I would think that you would be cautious about your franchise player.
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Old 11-15-2005   #19
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should have gotten peppers.....
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Old 11-15-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Maybe the rule should be don't play him in year 1 even if you draft him in year 1.
I agree with you and TheOgre. I always questioned the move to start a rookie QB behind a line that had never played together. Of course, at the time, I was poo-pooed by many people who said it builds "character" in our QB. 76 sacks in one season later, I guess there was some merit to my initial concerns.

We should have rode Banks hard those first two season, wins/losses be damned. The first couple of years should have been a focus to build the parts of the team that take the longest but are easily the most important: linemen.
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