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Old 11-08-2005   #61
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Originally Posted by markbeth
i know. i would just like to see the numbers. or actually i would rather find out where he is getting those numbers. i havent found a site that would give you in depth stats like those.
Stats, Inc. keeps track of drops and reasons for QB incompletions among a lot of other stats such as sacks allowed and penalties for OLmen. I would caution you that it seems like they are inconsistant in how quickly they update the information and it will some times change for up to 6 weeks after the game even if it says the game is included 2 days later (I think they get the info on easy stuff like yards and receptions quickly but for things like drops where they have multiple people review game film it takes a while). In other words for looking at things like drop rates, you are better off going to last season overall than trying to look at last week--plus the larger sample size will give a better picture in that case.
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Old 11-09-2005   #62
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Old 11-09-2005   #63
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Originally Posted by TheOgre
Bottom line is that no matter how perfect that pass was, it is still a low completion percentage pass. On 4th down, your job as QB is to keep the drive alive. Why attempt a pass into double-coverage that is a 1 in 3 shot AT BEST? Throw in the fact that it was to Bradford, and it truly begs the question. Meanwhile you have some shorter options that have a much higher chance of keeping the drive alive to give the team a chance to win. Basically Carr struck out swinging when he only needed a single to keep the rally going.

No, Carr threw a third strike but the catcher dropped the pitch and the runner ran to first safely while the winning run scored from third base: PB!
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Old 11-09-2005   #64
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The real blame falls on the coaching staff. This deep into the 4th season, they still have Corey Bradford starting at Wr. Gaffney and Armstrong both would have made that catch and many much more difficult catches. In my opinion they should be on the field 90% of the time and Bradford should be on another team.
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Old 11-09-2005   #65
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Originally Posted by dalemurphy
The real blame falls on the coaching staff. This deep into the 4th season, they still have Corey Bradford starting at Wr. Gaffney and Armstrong both would have made that catch and many much more difficult catches. In my opinion they should be on the field 90% of the time and Bradford should be on another team.
Agreed, we should have kept one of the other young receivers like Kasper or Starling - assign your own name.
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Old 11-09-2005   #66
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Originally Posted by run-david-run
No pass that hits a wide reciver in the hands is a low % pass
This may be news to you, but when Carr made the decision to throw it, neither he, nor you (unless your name is God) knew the ball was going to hit him in the hands. Throwing the deep ball to the man with the worst hands on the team is a higher % pass than throwing it shorter to a much better WR is? Good logic there. Good job, Captain obvious.
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Old 11-09-2005   #67
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Originally Posted by Porky
Throwing the deep ball to the man with the worst hands on the team is a higher % pass than throwing it shorter to a much better WR is?
This is absolutely true if the end goal is completing 1 pass. However, in this case the goal was to eventually score a touchdown. With this team 30 yards in 30 seconds is not the sure thing people are assuming.

Last edited by Runner; 11-09-2005 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 11-09-2005   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner
This is absolutley true if the end goal is completing 1 pass. However, in this case the goal was to eventually score a touchdown. With this team 30 yards in 30 seconds is not the sure thing people are assuming.
At that moment, the only job is to get a 1st down. It's either get a first down or game over. Those were the two choices. People act like this was the first qtr. So, I suppose your contention is that the percentages were higher to go for it all with a lower % play, than to get the first down, and play on. Hmmm, interesting logic there.
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Old 11-09-2005   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
At that moment, the only job is to get a 1st down. It's either get a first down or game over. Those were the two choices. People act like this was the first qtr. So, I suppose your contention is that the percentages were higher to go for it all with a lower % play, than to get the first down, and play on. Hmmm, interesting logic there.
I thought the job was to win the game. Interesting logic there.

Hmmmmm - saying "interesting logic" doesn't add anything to my post either.


In the end, I would have been happy with either pass. The reason I don't condemn the long one is it shows a spark the teram has been missing. Cheers.
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Old 11-09-2005   #70
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Wow, just wow.

I'm no Carr apologist, however I will take his defense on this one play because I don't think he is at fault for this one. There are alot of things that some of you are not taking into consideration. First of all the pass was not thrown into double coverage. The safety never got within 5 yards of Bradford, and he had no effect on the outcome of the play what so ever. If Carr would have thrown to Johnson, and AJ had dropped, everyone would be questioning why he threw to AJ when Bradford was wide open down the sideline. NObody on this board knows what Carr's read progessions were. Also, there's no guarantee that Johnson would have made the catch either. So here's the part where all the long pass/short pass, 1st down/4th down, Bradford's hands/Johnson's hands, and field position & time remaining comparisons come flying out from every corner. Look, Carr has 2, maybe 2.5 seconds in the pocket to make a throw. Do you think he has time to drop back and think, ''Hmm, let's see. AJ at the 30 or Corey inside the 10? Well, let's see it is 4th down....'' Carr saw an open man and threw to him, simple as that. He threw a perfect pass to an open reciever, Bradford dropped it.Really we've had all week to break down a decision that Carr had to make in 3 seconds. Give the guy a break for once. Carr deserves some criticism for his play at times, but I don't think that play was one of those times. The armchair QBs are goin overboard on this one. All IMO, of course.
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Old 11-09-2005   #71
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Originally Posted by RTP2110
Wow, just wow.

The armchair QBs are goin overboard on this one. All IMO, of course.
no your wrong. this still hasnt been talked about enough.
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Old 11-09-2005   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Stats, Inc. keeps track of drops and reasons for QB incompletions among a lot of other stats such as sacks allowed and penalties for OLmen. I would caution you that it seems like they are inconsistant in how quickly they update the information and it will some times change for up to 6 weeks after the game even if it says the game is included 2 days later (I think they get the info on easy stuff like yards and receptions quickly but for things like drops where they have multiple people review game film it takes a while). In other words for looking at things like drop rates, you are better off going to last season overall than trying to look at last week--plus the larger sample size will give a better picture in that case.

they only have bradford for 2 drops this year. i know you said it might take a while for the stats to get up so i went back to the 2 years before this. and they have him for 4 drops combined in those 2 years. i dont know for a fact that this is wrong but it sure is suspicious.

im gonna keep an eye on what he does this year. how many drops would you say hes had this year. my guess is 6, could be more. next year we will know if we can trust these stats or not.
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Old 11-09-2005   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth
no your wrong. this still hasnt been talked about enough.
It's funny, because the only place that it's an issue is on these boards. Nobody on the radio, newspaper, etc. is saying anything about it at all.
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Old 11-09-2005   #74
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Originally Posted by Runner
This is absolutely true if the end goal is completing 1 pass. However, in this case the goal was to eventually score a touchdown. With this team 30 yards in 30 seconds is not the sure thing people are assuming.
it was fourth down.....
 
Old 11-09-2005   #75
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Originally Posted by RTP2110
It's funny, because the only place that it's an issue is on these boards. Nobody on the radio, newspaper, etc. is saying anything about it at all.
just joking dude!!!!
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Old 11-09-2005   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth
they only have bradford for 2 drops this year. i know you said it might take a while for the stats to get up so i went back to the 2 years before this. and they have him for 4 drops combined in those 2 years. i dont know for a fact that this is wrong but it sure is suspicious.
IMO the 4 in 2003-4 isn't off by much, but the important part is Stats, Inc. isn't some kind of Texans' hack organization. They supply stats to NFL.com, ESPN.com, etc. So as long as they have a consistant application of their standard for drops, then you can judge one WR against the field. There is an element of subjectivity to what is a catchable ball, but there is no reason to believe a national scope site like them is biased in Bradford's favor. If anything, I would guessed that as most things, the big names get benefit of the doubt over the no names.
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Old 11-09-2005   #77
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Originally Posted by RTP2110
It's funny, because the only place that it's an issue is on these boards. Nobody on the radio, newspaper, etc. is saying anything about it at all.
I think the smilie was missing from markbeth's post (BTW, this has been discussed on the radio, and most of the radio guys I've heard think Carr made the correct decision).

I don't think this thread contains enough Carr "facts". Feel free to add on to my list:

Carr doesn't throw a good deep pass.
Carr doesn't throw a good short pass.
Carr doesn't challenge defenses.
Carr doesn't make good decisions.
Carr doesn't move well in the pocket.
Carr leaves the pocket too early.
Carr doesn't go through his progressions.
Carr checks down to Davis too often.
Carr only audibles to a run.
Carr isn't a leader.
Carr doesn't show enough emotion.
Carr is too emotional.
Carr doesn't throw the ball away enough.
Carr doesn't throws the ball away too much.
Carr is afraid of the rush.
Carr holds on to the ball too long.
Carr is a prima donna.
Carr takes too many unnecessary hits.
Carr locks on to his receivers.
Carr won't stay with his receiver long enough.
Carr doesn't have the mental capacity to play QB in the NFL.

But there's more -

Carr doesn't put the toilet seat down.
Carr doesn't lift the toilet seat.
Carr has halitosis.
Carr won't wash behind his ears.
Carr uses all the hot water.
Carr doesn't signal before he turns.
Carr has unmanageable hair.
Carr twirls his hair.
Carr spends too much time with his family.
Carr wears Yankees caps. 'Nuff said.
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Old 11-09-2005   #78
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I dont care what nobody says (yeah thats a double negative and a gramatical error but i dont care)... and I mean nobody, as a QB your JOB is to get the ball to the receiver and trust him that if you make a good throw then he will make the play for you. And to answer all of the Aj questions, did you dumbys not see that he was tired, thats why he stopped on that TD pass he shoulda caught on 2nd down. Oh and what if Carr had thrown it to AJ and since AJ was tired he was to drop it? What would yall say then? I dont know why Carr threw it to AJ, it is easy to see that he was tired, oh and look at the replay, Bradford had 2 steps on the CB down the sideline, he woulda had a big play if he could just stop staring down his #1 read. I just think yall are gunna criticize DC no matter what. The only good thing about these stupid threads are that they get my post count up.
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Old 11-09-2005   #79
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:brickwall The bottom line is every week we have a player step down to screw something up . This has allowed us to be one of the most consistent teams in the league at 1-7 .
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Old 11-09-2005   #80
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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx
it was fourth down.....
I'll take a big play on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th down. Punt return, kick-off return, fumble, intercept. Heck, I'd even like to win the coin flip going into overtime.
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