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Old 11-08-2005   #41
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Originally Posted by Runner
I'm sorry I wasted your time trying to discuss something on a discussion board.
I didn't mean for it to come out like that. I just thought that you were accusing me of bashing someone. I may come out against someone as a player that I think could be upgraded. I don't really think I'm bashing them. I'm not really that upset with CB because I don't expect him to make that catch really. The reason I get upset with Carr is because I expect more. Basically, everytime I get mad at Carr I'm really upset with coaches and OL for doing it to him. Kinda like getting mad a kid for acting out but you're really upset with his family, discipline, caring or lack thereof.

As for the periods following my statements, I think it's just a flair for the dramatic. I completely see where you're coming from...I just think we see some of the small things a little differently really.

The fact is, we all want to go to the same place - period!

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Old 11-08-2005   #42
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Originally Posted by DRAMA
I didn't mean for it to come out like that. I just thought that you were accusing me of bashing someone. I may come out against someone as a player that I think could be upgraded. I don't really think I'm bashing them. I'm not really that upset with CB because I don't expect him to make that catch really. The reason I get upset with Carr is because I expect more. Basically, everytime I get mad at Carr I'm really upset with coaches and OL for doing it to him. Kinda like getting mad a kid for acting out but you're really upset with his family, discipline, caring or lack thereof.

As for the periods following my statements, I think it's just a flair for the dramatic. I completely see where you're coming from...I just think we see some of the small things a little differently really.

The fact is, we all want to go to the same place - period!


Well said. Even though I do expect any receiver in this league to catch most balls that hit him in both hands, opinions differ.

A few wins would go a long way to lightening things up.
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Old 11-08-2005   #43
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Originally Posted by DRAMA
Let's look at the facts -

Carr missed Dre for the first down - period. Watch the replays....he was there - no LB, no safety, no nada....

That's called a BAD decision.

The bad decision came at the most crucial time - period! Although it was a good throw, big deal. It was the WRONG throw. Wrong moves are mistakes. Mistakes cost you football games. The throw was riskier thus making it a harder catch thus making it too risky on a fourth down when the game is on the line. You don't make those mistakes and win. Again, mistakes cost you games.

Carr makes too many mistakes - period. So does Bradford, the ENTIRE OL, Coleman, Buchanon, and Babin. Pendry was getting on Carr because of the bad read.

Pbuc was benched
Babin was benched
OL guys were moved and benched
Bradford has been cut AND benched.
Carr? Anyone??? Bueller? Bueller?

Cannon arms are sweet. Mistakes are terrible because why class? They cost you games! Bradford dropping it was irrelevant because:

Bradford should not be playing anyway (Coach mistake)
Bradford should'nt be a Texan (Casserly mistake)
Bradford should not have been a legit option on a crucial play (Coach mistake)
Bradford should not have been looked at (Carr mistake)
Johnson should have ran that route with Gaffney underneath (Coach mistake)
Carr panics (OL mistake)
Carr doesn't read the D correctly (OL and CARR mistake)
Bradford drops it (Bradford mistake)

Mistake after mistake is why we're 1-16...err....1-7. Mistakes are controlled by coaching! Players are controlled by mistakes and players can be cut! Therefore mistakes can be eliminated!

It's seriously frustrating to hear we played well this week. MY GOD! No! We did NOT play well. We had one of our 21 out-pattern pass plays broken for TD. That's 1 all season. That does not constitute playing well. Coach Capers talking about heart and passion but lack of execution does not mean we played well. We didn't and DON'T play well. For whatever reason, we are not a good football team. I personally believe it's mistakes. I don't feel the talent level is that different on any team. It's the smart guys who are talented and DON'T make mistakes are the ones who win. They just happen to be coached by men who DO NOT allow mistakes to be made. Then again...maybe it's justy me and I'm a frustrated fan!

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Old 11-08-2005   #44
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Bradford has caught 48.6% and 50% of the passes directed to him this year and last. Before you go aha, though, that includes missed balls, defended balls, etc. so for example Randy Moss has caught 45.6% this year 57.6% last year (no I am not equating Moss to Bradford, just using a commonly known example). From the QB perspective, about 30% of Carr's incompletions are poor throws, 13% are defensed--those are not out of line--once again for illustration purposes only, 35% of Manning's incompletions are poor throws and 20% are defensed. So basically, even though Bradford has infuriated fans by not making catches, the % of the time when the ball is delivered to him in catchable form that he has made the catch is much greater than you think.
i dont care what the stats say. i say bradford has poor hands. what is the percentage of catchable balls that bradford has droped compared to moss?
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Old 11-08-2005   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAMA
AJ was open - watch the tape. Pendry was on him BECAUSE AJ was open. the play was to AJ.

And yes, AJ stopped......at 12 yards! know what that's called? First down! You know what that means? 4 more plays!


WHO CARES, HE HIT BRADFORD WHO DROPPED THE BALL AND AJ SAID HE WAS WINDED! So you hit AJ and he drops the ball because he is tired.



TONY FREAKING DUNGY said on the NFL Network on Siruis radio that David Carr has the talent, no one really knows how good or bad he will be because of the INTENSE lack of pass protection. He then said Peyton Manning would get creamed behind our line.
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Old 11-08-2005   #46
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Originally Posted by markbeth
i dont care what the stats say. i say bradford has poor hands. what is the percentage of catchable balls that bradford has droped compared to moss?
You don't care what the stats say and then ask for stats? Moss is better--the point is even Corey Bradford makes that catch 8+ times out of 10. In the context of decision making for the QB (the subject of the discussion) he should not refuse to hit an open Bradford for a potential game winning TD. If he is going to refuse to throw in that circumstance he needs to tell the coaches before the game so they can decide who to bench.
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Old 11-08-2005   #47
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Originally Posted by Goldeagle
WHO CARES, HE HIT BRADFORD WHO DROPPED THE BALL AND AJ SAID HE WAS WINDED! So you hit AJ and he drops the ball because he is tired.



TONY FREAKING DUNGY said on the NFL Network on Siruis radio that David Carr has the talent, no one really knows how good or bad he will be because of the INTENSE lack of pass protection. He then said Peyton Manning would get creamed behind our line.
But doesn't that just mean Tony Dungy is a Texan homer??????????

To be clear: that was a joke.
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Old 11-08-2005   #48
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
You don't care what the stats say and then ask for stats? Moss is better--the point is even Corey Bradford makes that catch 8+ times out of 10. In the context of decision making for the QB (the subject of the discussion) he should not refuse to hit an open Bradford for a potential game winning TD. If he is going to refuse to throw in that circumstance he needs to tell the coaches before the game so they can decide who to bench.
i wasnt even thinking about that pass. i agreed with the deep ball. what i dont agree with is bradford making that catch 8 of 10 times. its more like 5 of 10. but that still was better odds than johnson making the catch and us scoring from somewhere around the 30 yard line with around 30 sec left.

and im still interested in how corey compares to moss in holding on to catchable balls. if you have those numbers or know where i could find them let me know.
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Old 11-08-2005   #49
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Originally Posted by markbeth
i wasnt even thinking about that pass. i agreed with the deep ball. what i dont agree with is bradford making that catch 8 of 10 times. its more like 5 of 10. but that still was better odds than johnson making the catch and us scoring from somewhere around the 30 yard line with around 30 sec left.

and im still interested in how corey compares to moss in holding on to catchable balls. if you have those numbers or know where i could find them let me know.
5 out of 10 - that's the number I used! I think it's a little conservative though. Anyway...

... I think the comparison of Moss to Bradford would result in.....no comparison at all. I think he chose Moss not because he had similar ability to Bradford, but to show that even the highly skilled receivers have their misses.
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Old 11-08-2005   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAMA
Let's look at the facts -

Carr missed Dre for the first down - period. Watch the replays....he was there - no LB, no safety, no nada....

That's called a BAD decision.

The bad decision came at the most crucial time - period! Although it was a good throw, big deal. It was the WRONG throw. Wrong moves are mistakes. Mistakes cost you football games. The throw was riskier thus making it a harder catch thus making it too risky on a fourth down when the game is on the line. You don't make those mistakes and win. Again, mistakes cost you games.

Carr makes too many mistakes - period. So does Bradford, the ENTIRE OL, Coleman, Buchanon, and Babin. Pendry was getting on Carr because of the bad read.

Pbuc was benched
Babin was benched
OL guys were moved and benched
Bradford has been cut AND benched.
Carr? Anyone??? Bueller? Bueller?

Cannon arms are sweet. Mistakes are terrible because why class? They cost you games! Bradford dropping it was irrelevant because:

Bradford should not be playing anyway (Coach mistake)
Bradford should'nt be a Texan (Casserly mistake)
Bradford should not have been a legit option on a crucial play (Coach mistake)
Bradford should not have been looked at (Carr mistake)
Johnson should have ran that route with Gaffney underneath (Coach mistake)
Carr panics (OL mistake)
Carr doesn't read the D correctly (OL and CARR mistake)
Bradford drops it (Bradford mistake)

Mistake after mistake is why we're 1-16...err....1-7. Mistakes are controlled by coaching! Players are controlled by mistakes and players can be cut! Therefore mistakes can be eliminated!

It's seriously frustrating to hear we played well this week. MY GOD! No! We did NOT play well. We had one of our 21 out-pattern pass plays broken for TD. That's 1 all season. That does not constitute playing well. Coach Capers talking about heart and passion but lack of execution does not mean we played well. We didn't and DON'T play well. For whatever reason, we are not a good football team. I personally believe it's mistakes. I don't feel the talent level is that different on any team. It's the smart guys who are talented and DON'T make mistakes are the ones who win. They just happen to be coached by men who DO NOT allow mistakes to be made. Then again...maybe it's justy me and I'm a frustrated fan!

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Would yoy still blame Carr if it was AJ running the deep route and he dropt it? What about if Bradford had caught the ball? If you acctually watch the replay, you will see that when Carr looks at AJ, the MLB is all over him, once Carr looks at Bradford, AJ is able to break away from coverage, but he was also 3 yds short of the marker, nothing guaranteed there. Carr made a good read and a better throw, period.
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Old 11-08-2005   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCROD
Here's a better question, why isnt your #1 WR running a deep route on that play? Everyone is fixating on the "improper" read, I'm wondering why AJ wasnt running Bradfords route.
Becasue that would have eliminated a throw to AJ, you know the Jags would have immediatley doubled him if he went deep.
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Old 11-08-2005   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAMA
I understand that there were people 'around him' as there were people 'around' Bradford - two of them actually but you throw the ball to the spot not the player. When AJ turns and hooks by 1 yard after running full speed, that guy's beat. Granted, it's only by a couple of steps but he's beat and is not in the play as considered by a QB making a 'read' on a pass. Otherwise, no one would ever be open because someone is always within 5 yards of the WR. But as an old QB, (Emphasis on QB not old), seeing my WR running the right route, that Safety can in no way make a play on that. IMO, he's in no shape to make a play. At the point he's riding him, the defender has no idea the little curl's coming. He's there and then he's not.

The pass to CB was a helluva pass and this post does not mean drop Carr. I want Carr to have an OL and then have judgement passed. My contention is that mistakes are the culprit and we see Bradford as the mistake on this play when I see it being Carr. Again, it's not personal against DC. I want DC to show he can 'read' - I want that but it's hard for him to do anything when a great game still contains 6 sacks.

More than anything I just want some change and a new direction. However, I still think Carr can lead that change.
But if a linebacker plays zone and covers AJ when carr looks at him, he cant assume AJ is going to come open later and not follow thorugh his progression. Its 4th down, he cant lock on to one guy becasue the other reciver has no hands. Not Carr's fault that he is on the field. 4th and long in the last minute of the game, you cant wait for your favorite target to maybe be open, esspecially when you have a reciver on the outside who jsut beat his corner:brickwall
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Old 11-08-2005   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
Bottom line is that no matter how perfect that pass was, it is still a low completion percentage pass. On 4th down, your job as QB is to keep the drive alive. Why attempt a pass into double-coverage that is a 1 in 3 shot AT BEST? Throw in the fact that it was to Bradford, and it truly begs the question. Meanwhile you have some shorter options that have a much higher chance of keeping the drive alive to give the team a chance to win. Basically Carr struck out swinging when he only needed a single to keep the rally going.
No pass that hits a wide reciver in the hands is a low % pass
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Old 11-08-2005   #54
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Originally Posted by DRAMA
Bashing who? Bradford? Seriously? This franchise has to live up to the expectations of this city. Me being a Houstonian gives me the right to expect more from a team that I help subsidize. A BBS is instilled to allow just that - the expression of my opinion based on my knowledge of the topic. I simply do not think that Bradford is better than Armstrong, Gaffney or AJ...or even Mathis from what I've seen really. I don't think Bradford catches 50% of his balls that are 10 yard curls? So to say that he MAY catch 20% of the BOMBS is unrealistic? Not so much...
Thats going over the top. He has crappy hands, but only to where he has 1-2 drops per game. The cleaveland game was terriblle and he had 2 drops. I guarantee that Bradford catches that pass well over 50% of the time, otherwise he would not have made it through college. Remeber, he is the "deep threat", meaning he is used to catching those types of ball, even more reason to throw it to him.
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Old 11-08-2005   #55
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this has to be the most talked about play ive ever seen here.
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Old 11-08-2005   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
I completely agree with Drama on virtually all of his points, sans the "we have the same talent" theory.

On 4th and 12 and a minute left, unless a guy, any guy, is WIDE open, you don't go for the home run. That's Jr. High stuff there. Anyone will tell you that. Your job there is to get the first down. Drama said it very well in his first post. Mistakes by the WR, QB, and coaching staff led to that particular play not being made at that moment. IF Bradford catches it and scores, of course I like the outcome, but I still wouldn't have liked the decision. Terrible decision by Carr. Dumb players like Carr and Bradford are bringing the entire football IQ of our city into negative numbers. It's hard to believe we are even having to debate this. This goes right into the "no brainer" catagory.
If bradford had caught the ball you would be hailling carr as the next coming of tom brady, leading his team downfield for a late TD. this WHOLE THING IS BRADFORD'S FAULT, keept the guy who makes a perfect pass, scratch that, about 5 perfect passes in the last 3 minutes of a game with all the pressure on out of your argument. he has enough problems, that last play was not one of them
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Old 11-08-2005   #57
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Originally Posted by markbeth
this has to be the most talked about play ive ever seen here.
also has to be the most frustrating...

hey, i made all pro!!!
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Old 11-08-2005   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner
5 out of 10 - that's the number I used! I think it's a little conservative though. Anyway...

... I think the comparison of Moss to Bradford would result in.....no comparison at all. I think he chose Moss not because he had similar ability to Bradford, but to show that even the highly skilled receivers have their misses.
i know. i would just like to see the numbers. or actually i would rather find out where he is getting those numbers. i havent found a site that would give you in depth stats like those.
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Old 11-08-2005   #59
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Originally Posted by run-david-run
also has to be the most frustrating...

hey, i made all pro!!!
congratulations. i didnt know if you had it in ya!
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Old 11-08-2005   #60
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Originally Posted by yaboycm
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why? he makes absoultuley no valid points!!! bradford is open deep, therefor he gets the ball, simple as that
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