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Old 11-04-2005   #161
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I agree. But after "Absolutely" you will see - "as long as we renegotiate his contract and the expectations are set that the job is not his next year. We need to see how David holds up against professional competition for the benefit of the team and its subsequent direction."

That would be the type of answer a no poop guy like McNair would respect.

Just in case that one knows on this board - Carr is the highest paid player on this team. How is the return on investment to date?

How about protecting the investment and giving him a chance to suceed?
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Old 11-04-2005   #162
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Originally Posted by NFLforher
How about protecting the investment and giving him a chance to suceed?
Chance to succed is synonymous with opportunty. He has 50+ starts to show improvement in may different facets of the game. Other than taking off and running with the ball I have seen no tangible or intangible improvement. That does not mean it can materialize. I, like many i would imagine, feel we should have seen more by now.

I do realize he has not had the best protection or weapons, but if you look at each position and attach a productivity per head measurement we are not getting the ROI from the QB position.
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Old 11-04-2005   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Chance to succed is synonymous with opportunty. He has 50+ starts to show improvement in may different facets of the game. Other than taking off and running with the ball I have seen no tangible or intangible improvement. That does not mean it can materialize. I, like many i would imagine, feel we should have seen more by now.
I agree with you that the Texans need more return from their investment, but the above just doesn't seem fair at all. You can say chance to succeed is synonymous with opportunity but it begs the question whether he has had either. Prior to this year, which has to be regarded as a full team melt-down, he had shown progress each year across basically every statistical measure. In addition, he was showing improvement in intangibles such as not running out of bounds behind the LOS. After looking at each play in the past three games IMO there were only 1 or 2 plays where he demonstrated poor pocket awareness and a considerably more where he moved to assist the OL--that is an improvement from the past even if lost in the general team performance. Thru the 1st half of last season it looked like he was on the verge of a break-out year. Then something light-switched. Love to know what that was.
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Old 11-04-2005   #164
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Default ...call "Perry Mason"

"Thru the 1st half of last season it looked like he was on the verge of a break-out year. Then something light-switched. Love to know what that was."

IMO, this scenario defines the demise/fall of the Texans under Capers. Until this point, though a little rocky, the team had a winning record and everything seemed headed in the right direction. Then, almost over night, the entire team went 'south' into the nose dive we are in now. What happened? It's more than the 'cover 2'---we became an entirely different team under Capers. No fire. No fight. No hanging in there and even winning against the best teams like we did the first 2 years. If I were McNair, I would want an answer.
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Old 11-04-2005   #165
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Carr's GQ spread comes out this month. Remember to pick it up ladies.
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Old 11-04-2005   #166
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Carr will never be anything above average until he is the team leader. Let's be real, he's getting sacked a lot because the OL does not want to play for him. What did Brees do after a suck 4-12 season? Called a team meeting and said "let's do this." Have we ever heard anything like that from Carr?
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Old 11-04-2005   #167
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Originally Posted by Honch Delgado
Carr's GQ spread comes out this month. Remember to pick it up ladies.
Already have it.

It was done before the season when he had long hair. I like the shorter hair.
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Old 11-04-2005   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Chance to succed is synonymous with opportunty. He has 50+ starts to show improvement in may different facets of the game. Other than taking off and running with the ball I have seen no tangible or intangible improvement. That does not mean it can materialize. I, like many i would imagine, feel we should have seen more by now.

I do realize he has not had the best protection or weapons, but if you look at each position and attach a productivity per head measurement we are not getting the ROI from the QB position.

I guess you haven't watched any of the games then. Sorry.
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Old 11-05-2005   #169
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No matter how we feel about Carr, we can still enjoy some Python.

Here's the hitch in Kaiser's plan as the Texans' new coach: Carr will already have his extension in his back pocket before Kaiser comes on board. If Kaiser tells McNair that a new QB needs to come in and challenge Carr, he won't get the gig. Kaiser either agrees that Carr is his QB, or he looks elsewhere for a job. I hear the Saskatewan Roughriders are looking for a new assistant to the assistant special teams coach. Bring a heavy coat, those Canadian summers are brutal.

Do you really want to see Tony Banks in at QB on this team, right now? What did Tony do to you to wish that upon him? If there's one guy on the Texans who doesn't want to see Carr pulled or go down, it's Tony Banks. Banks has zero mobility and would be a sitting duck (I could use a duck smilie here) for the rush the Texans line allows. Throw out the bootlegs & the rollouts, Banks can't run those plays. And if you don't think David Carr is an accurate passer, then Banks is certainly not your man. His completion percentage is about 3% lower, and he can't throw a pass on the move at all. The best way for Tony to help this team is by keeping a firm grasp on that clipboard.
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Old 11-05-2005   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsip
IMO, this scenario defines the demise/fall of the Texans under Capers. Until this point, though a little rocky, the team had a winning record and everything seemed headed in the right direction. Then, almost over night, the entire team went 'south' into the nose dive we are in now. What happened? It's more than the 'cover 2'---we became an entirely different team under Capers. No fire. No fight.
Dang TSIP, you had me going because next to defining the meaning of Life,
my most urgent questions surround the mystery of what happened to the Texans ? But to say at some point last season the team went south doesn't answer the question of what parameter changed, or what was new or what factor was suddenly removed.
It wasn't Capers because he's been a constant, he's been here since the teams inception well before 2002 when they first strepped on the field, unless you want to argue it was the cumulative effect of his presence over those years ? But that's still not a definitive explanation of what factor(s) caused the Texans rapid and dramatic decline in on field performance ?
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Old 11-05-2005   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
No matter how we feel about Carr, we can still enjoy some Python.

Here's the hitch in Kaiser's plan as the Texans' new coach: Carr will already have his extension in his back pocket before Kaiser comes on board. If Kaiser tells McNair that a new QB needs to come in and challenge Carr, he won't get the gig.
If Bob McNair really operates like this (dictates to the new regime who the starting players are) he is a fool, a horrible Owner and a total embarrassment to his fan base. This problem with naming the "face of the Franchise" before he produces like a Franchise player is that if the guy you 'hope' lives up to his hype doesn't, you just become a mediocre franchise.....and that is what we are right now. Heck, mediocre is middle of the pack, that would be an improvment.
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Old 11-05-2005   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
If Bob McNair really operates like this (dictates to the new regime who the starting players are) he is a fool, a horrible Owner and a total embarrassment to his fan base. This problem with naming the "face of the Franchise" before he produces like a Franchise player is that if the guy you 'hope' lives up to his hype doesn't, you just become a mediocre franchise.....and that is what we are right now. Heck, mediocre is middle of the pack, that would be an improvment.
there is nothing embarrassing or horrible about Texans owner Bob McNair, he is a classy, approachable & successful buisness man who brought Pro Football back to Houston.

the real problem is the Franchise Player does not have enough support, the system created has fallen apart because of the football side of operations. who is the QB coach now that Palmer has been fired? are they qualified? I'll go out on a limb here and say there are probably better canidates available, but now is the time or place, for that we'll just have to suck it up and endure the pain until the off season before meaningfull changes can be made, no pain no gain
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Old 11-05-2005   #173
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It's tough to debate a topic when fans don't understand what was typed. Look up the definition of "if" sometime would ya'? That was a hypothetical that Lucky threw down, and I commented on it with another if.

Also, it's amazing how close you follow the team but have no clue to who the coaches are. Palmer was the OC, not the QB coach. Greg Roman has been our QB coach all year...before and after the Palmer firing.
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Old 11-05-2005   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
No matter how we feel about Carr, we can still enjoy some Python.

Here's the hitch in Kaiser's plan as the Texans' new coach: Carr will already have his extension in his back pocket before Kaiser comes on board. If Kaiser tells McNair that a new QB needs to come in and challenge Carr, he won't get the gig. Kaiser either agrees that Carr is his QB, or he looks elsewhere for a job. I hear the Saskatewan Roughriders are looking for a new assistant to the assistant special teams coach. Bring a heavy coat, those Canadian summers are brutal.

Do you really want to see Tony Banks in at QB on this team, right now? What did Tony do to you to wish that upon him? If there's one guy on the Texans who doesn't want to see Carr pulled or go down, it's Tony Banks. Banks has zero mobility and would be a sitting duck (I could use a duck smilie here) for the rush the Texans line allows. Throw out the bootlegs & the rollouts, Banks can't run those plays. And if you don't think David Carr is an accurate passer, then Banks is certainly not you man. His completion percentage is about 3% lower, and he can't throw a pass on the move at all. The best way for Tony to help this team is by keeping a firm grasp on that clipboard.
Lucky I just do not think you read my posts and then you add your own spin and flavor on how you interpret my opinions. I can say without equivocation that I have never mentioned Benching David Carr for Tony Banks. My thing with Carr has always been his contract.

Take a look at my posts and I believe you will see consistency on this topic. Outside of DC's contract I am pretty optimistic expceptwhen it comes to our HC and GM, and I would say that stern eye wavers from time to time.

And I do believe that if MCNair needs to look for a new HC he will have to hire a big name and that coach will have the leverage in those negotiations. With so many positions open at the end of the season and Houston wil not tolerate a bad product for many more years.
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Old 11-05-2005   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
It's tough to debate a topic when fans don't understand what was typed. Look up the definition of "if" sometime would ya'? That was a hypothetical that Lucky threw down, and I commented on it with another if.

Also, it's amazing how close you follow the team but have no clue to who the coaches are. Palmer was the OC, not the QB coach. Greg Roman has been our QB coach all year...before and after the Palmer firing.
first, I don't think its neccessary to be calling out the owner in this situation, but I could wrong.

second, I thought that was Palmer's calling card that he had a track record of developing young QB's?

third, how come your not calling for Greg Romans head since he's been the "QB coach all year" thats pretty amazing to me.
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Old 11-05-2005   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
first, I don't think its neccessary to be calling out the owner in this situation, but I could wrong.

second, I thought that was Palmer's calling card that he had a track record of developing young QB's?

third, how come your not calling for Greg Romans head since he's been the "QB coach all year" thats pretty amazing to me.
*sigh*

I'm not calling out the owner. I can't believe you don't grasp this. I will explain slowly.....Lucky threw out a hypothetical situation. I said that IF McNair operates like this it would be pathetic in my mind. Read that over and over...5 times perhaps.

Why should I call for the individual coaches heads when I am clearly calling for a new staff? If you put 2+2 together you will see that I am....but didn't bother to spell it out.

Geez people.
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Old 11-05-2005   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
*sigh*

I'm not calling out the owner. I can't believe you don't grasp this. I will explain slowly.....Lucky threw out a hypothetical situation. I said that IF McNair operates like this it would be pathetic in my mind. Read that over and over...5 times perhaps.

Why should I call for the individual coaches heads when I am clearly calling for a new staff? If you put 2+2 together you will see that I am....but didn't bother to spell it out.

Geez people.
OK then, I got it. sometimes I don't read thru the whole threads I just respond when there is a post that seems out of line, I should know better from you, can you forgive me

I don't have any problem with the Texans keeping a keen eye open for another QB to develop, as a matter of fact I would like to see a young strong arm physical body QB drafted this year like Grambling Eugene Bruce. its only a matter of time until Carr will be physically unable to play. But at least lets change the coaching and developmental phases of the organization.
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Old 11-05-2005   #178
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Originally Posted by Vinny
I believe in players earning their spot through competition. I don't have any faith in pre-determined starting positions given out because of draft status. Any coach who does this will fail.
Except when it came to your boy Jason Babin last year. You were one of those who passionately defended the coaches decision to start him as a rookie while many of us criticised that same decision to just "hand" him the position. Its no problem though, we're all guilty of a little inconsistancy from time to time (I bit my tongue before I said hypocrisy). I believe your support for Babin has moderated somewhat since then, just as my criticism has.
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Old 11-05-2005   #179
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Except when it came to your boy Jason Babin last year. You were one of those who passionately defended the coaches decision to start him as a rookie while many of us criticised that same decision to just "hand" him the position. Its no problem though, we're all guilty of a little inconsistancy from time to time (I bit my tongue before I said hypocrisy). I believe your support for Babin has moderated somewhat since then, just as my criticism has.
I'm not inconsistent. If you notice I support all the players at first. I supported Cassserly at first...I supported Dom Capers at first. Heck, I supported David Carr at first. I will continue to support all of our team at first until I think they can't play or see otherwise. I will support our players and give the benefit of the doubt and will not judge them too early based on how I think the draft should have gone.
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Old 11-05-2005   #180
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Lucky I just do not think you read my posts and then you add your own spin and flavor on how you interpret my opinions. I can say without equivocation that I have never mentioned Benching David Carr for Tony Banks. My thing with Carr has always been his contract.
I know you have not pushed for Banks at QB. I was responding to Honeymoon who has discussed both your post and his opinion of giving Banks a shot. I do read your posts, I promise. It was just a case of trying to put too much into one post before I had to go to work.
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