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Old 11-03-2005   #141
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Originally Posted by tsip
...so your'e saying that once all is 'perfect' in Texan Land, the real Carr will show up? Great, and you believe that because....??
It's a team game. Plain and simple. When you don't have other players making plays the whole team will suffer. I have my reservations about Carr just like everyone else, but I do see that he isn't being given a fair shot. I've actually seen Carr play in person while he was in college and know that he's not in the same league as Manning or Brady, but he does have very good potential if he gets the tools around him. The one lingering question is if we bring in another QB will this team excel with the same amount of talent? I think the overall talent on this team is poor and so I don't think bringing in another QB would get us over the hump. I havn't seen this staff open up the offense to let Carr gain his maximum potential. If Carr were to get the right coaching and right offensive mindset then I feel he'd be a lot better than just a guy being a sargeant and not a field general.
 
Old 11-03-2005   #142
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I would like to see us look at a QB in one of the later rounds Brad Smith or Reggie McNeil if they fall that far... basically some type of mobile quaterback that could be more elusive in the pocket...and a lot of you may be thinking car is a athletic and fast, but DC is none of that..he has decent str8 ahead speed but no is not elusive enough behind such a broken down line.
 
Old 11-03-2005   #143
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Originally Posted by TEXANRED
You dont remember? When Carr was picked over Harrington the spectators started Booing. Loudly.

no he wasnt. carr was signed before the draft. are you saying his agent and all those lawyers around the signing were booing at the time.
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Old 11-03-2005   #144
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I remember Harrington being booed, but not Carr. When a new coach comes in and says I will turn DC into the QB he is suppose to be(Lucky said this) then we will see a different QB. Carr has certain intagibles that most QBs in this league dont have. The heart that he possesses is almost immeasurable, eventhough I think he could be more vocal and lead this team. I say pay the man not only for the abuse we have given him, but for what he will become with a functional O-Line and aggressive playcalling.
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Old 11-03-2005   #145
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Originally Posted by tsip
...so your'e saying that once all is 'perfect' in Texan Land, the real Carr will show up? Great, and you believe that because....??
No that's not what he is saying. The chain is only as strong as your weakest link. Carr is not the weakest link.

Lets look at what Carr's job is. Read a D, throw the ball. O'Tae. Carr reads a D just fine, it's a blitz and he going to get sacked. Second its hard to throw when you are on your back.

I know what you are gonna say "When he does have time he still doesnt throw well." That's because he is just as suprised as the rest of us he has time. Kinda like Bradford being so supprised he is open he dropps the ball everytime.
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Old 11-03-2005   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth
no he wasnt. carr was signed before the draft. are you saying his agent and all those lawyers around the signing were booing at the time.
Okay, this is what I remember, Kipper or however you spell his name, was saying how great Harrington was and how stupid the Texans would be to pass on Harrington b/c he was more athletic with better accuracy where as Carr might have a gun for an arm but wasent as athletic and had that Bernie Kosar sideway throw.

I thought Carr had agreed to the terms of the contract before the draft but had not signed till after he was picked?

Also remember this was about the time when everyone was on the Organ banwaggon.

I just remember ESPN making a strong publicity push in Harrington's favor and when Carr was picked he got booed. Just like Elie got booed.

But again that is how I remember April of 2002.
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Old 11-03-2005   #147
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We got jobbed big time with that 2002 draft class. The best player out of the whole draft was a friggin' safety (Ed Reed).
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Old 11-03-2005   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED
No that's not what he is saying. The chain is only as strong as your weakest link. Carr is not the weakest link.

Lets look at what Carr's job is. Read a D, throw the ball. O'Tae. Carr reads a D just fine, it's a blitz and he going to get sacked. Second its hard to throw when you are on your back.

I know what you are gonna say "When he does have time he still doesnt throw well." That's because he is just as suprised as the rest of us he has time. Kinda like Bradford being so supprised he is open he dropps the ball everytime.
wrong quote sry.
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Old 11-03-2005   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED
Okay, this is what I remember, Kipper or however you spell his name, was saying how great Harrington was and how stupid the Texans would be to pass on Harrington b/c he was more athletic with better accuracy where as Carr might have a gun for an arm but wasent as athletic and had that Bernie Kosar sideway throw.

I thought Carr had agreed to the terms of the contract before the draft but had not signed till after he was picked?

Also remember this was about the time when everyone was on the Organ banwaggon.

I just remember ESPN making a strong publicity push in Harrington's favor and when Carr was picked he got booed. Just like Elie got booed.

But again that is how I remember April of 2002.
im not 100% sure that he was already signed. i sure dont remember a lot of booing. and im sure he wasnt booed his first couple of years here. i didnt hear any booes untill the end of last year.
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Old 11-03-2005   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth
im not 100% sure that he was already signed. i sure dont remember a lot of booing. and im sure he wasnt booed his first couple of years here. i didnt hear any booes untill the end of last year.
The terms were worked out before the draft and he signed on the day he was drafted.

Anyone have a link for this year's salaries? The only site that I can find is USA Today those are not updated for 2005.
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Old 11-03-2005   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
The terms were worked out before the draft and he signed on the day he was drafted.

Anyone have a link for this year's salaries? The only site that I can find is USA Today those are not updated for 2005.
go to hpf.com for our teams salries.
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Old 11-03-2005   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED
No that's not what he is saying. The chain is only as strong as your weakest link. Carr is not the weakest link.

Lets look at what Carr's job is. Read a D, throw the ball. O'Tae. Carr reads a D just fine, it's a blitz and he going to get sacked. Second its hard to throw when you are on your back.

I know what you are gonna say "When he does have time he still doesnt throw well." That's because he is just as suprised as the rest of us he has time. Kinda like Bradford being so supprised he is open he dropps the ball everytime.
'..reads a D just fine...'
'Carr is not the weakest link.'

...you should preference personal statements like these with IMO
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Old 11-03-2005   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Bob McNair will choose the next HC and/or GM partly based upon the answer to the question, "Can you win with David Carr at QB?". And the winner will say, "Absolutely".
I agree. But after "Absolutely" you will see - "as long as we renegotiate his contract and the expectations are set that the job is not his next year. We need to see how David holds up against professional competition for the benefit of the team and its subsequent direction."

That would be the type of answer a no poop guy like McNair would respect.

Just in case that one knows on this board - Carr is the highest paid player on this team. How is the return on investment to date?
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Old 11-03-2005   #154
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After 9 pages, this thread has gone almost nowhere, so I figured I'd add more junk to the junk pile

It is an absolute farce that after this long, we still don't know what we have in David Carr. It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, it's still true. Regardless what happens with David Carr, this franchise has to take a large portion of the blame for his early development, or lack thereof. His pass protection has been sorry for almost all of his tenure here. The rare string of games where it's been adequate, he's played pretty well for a young QB. He's never been given a team like the Steelers gave Roethlisberger, he's never been given a team like the Giants gvave Eli, or even the Colts gave Manning. The team has not improved in the offensive line, like Aikman's team did. If anything, this O-line has regressed, been shuffled around, and been so totally pathetic as to be the brunt of jokes on a national level.

I may be categorized as a Carr apologist; I don't know. The truth is, he hasn't been given a fair shot. 50 starts? You could give Manning, Brady, Montana, Unitas ... doesn't matter ... 50 starts behind this line with this offense as it has been for 50 starts and none of them would have done significantly better. So my real point that I continue to try and make is --

Instead of focusing on Carr (the symptom), how about we focus on fixing the root of the problem (the line, probably even moreso the coaching)? Instead of talking about drafting Leinart or VYoung or Reggie McNeil or some QB that can come in and compensate for our crappy line -- How about we just create an O-line that ANY quarterback can have a sufficient degree of success behind? Most other NFL teams manage to do so with people we've never even heard of - why can't we?

Our QB isn't the problem, folks. He may not be the answer, but he's surely not the problem.
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Old 11-03-2005   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc
After 9 pages, this thread has gone almost nowhere, so I figured I'd add more junk to the junk pile

It is an absolute farce that after this long, we still don't know what we have in David Carr. It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, it's still true. Regardless what happens with David Carr, this franchise has to take a large portion of the blame for his early development, or lack thereof. His pass protection has been sorry for almost all of his tenure here. The rare string of games where it's been adequate, he's played pretty well for a young QB. He's never been given a team like the Steelers gave Roethlisberger, he's never been given a team like the Giants gvave Eli, or even the Colts gave Manning. The team has not improved in the offensive line, like Aikman's team did. If anything, this O-line has regressed, been shuffled around, and been so totally pathetic as to be the brunt of jokes on a national level.

I may be categorized as a Carr apologist; I don't know. The truth is, he hasn't been given a fair shot. 50 starts? You could give Manning, Brady, Montana, Unitas ... doesn't matter ... 50 starts behind this line with this offense as it has been for 50 starts and none of them would have done significantly better. So my real point that I continue to try and make is --

Instead of focusing on Carr (the symptom), how about we focus on fixing the root of the problem (the line, probably even moreso the coaching)? Instead of talking about drafting Leinart or VYoung or Reggie McNeil or some QB that can come in and compensate for our crappy line -- How about we just create an O-line that ANY quarterback can have a sufficient degree of success behind? Most other NFL teams manage to do so with people we've never even heard of - why can't we?

Our QB isn't the problem, folks. He may not be the answer, but he's surely not the problem.
You have hit it on the head. Dump Carr's current contract and bring in an OLine.
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Old 11-03-2005   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I agree. But after "Absolutely" you will see - "as long as we renegotiate his contract and the expectations are set that the job is not his next year. We need to see how David holds up against professional competition for the benefit of the team and its subsequent direction."
So Coach Kaiser, you're saying that as long as Carr grabs a clipboard & takes a pay cut, you'd have no problem with David on the team?

Wrong answer. But as parting gifts we have this Houston Texans combination bottle opener/keychain & an autographed copy of Dom Caper's new book, "Our chief weapon is execution!... Execution and turnover ratio...Our two weapons are turnover ratio and execution... and ruthless efficiency! Our three weapons are execution, and turnover ratio, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope!"
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Old 11-03-2005   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
So Coach Kaiser, you're saying that as long as Carr grabs a clipboard & takes a pay cut, you'd have no problem with David on the team?

Wrong answer. But as parting gifts we have this Houston Texans combination bottle opener/keychain & an autographed copy of Dom Caper's new book, "Our chief weapon is execution!... Execution and turnover ratio...Our two weapons are turnover ratio and execution... and ruthless efficiency! Our three weapons are execution, and turnover ratio, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope!"
Why are you hatin' on Coach Capers. You should be enjoying our first win.
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Old 11-03-2005   #158
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What's so funny 'bout Peace, Love, & Execution?
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Old 11-03-2005   #159
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Originally Posted by Bubbajwp
Can we change the Title to Wongers latest excuses.
You took the words right out of my mouth. This is just a way for people to avoid back-pedaling. Being over critical does not really give any insight to real solutions. There is a difference between fair critique and dogmatism. It is easy to hone in on one perspective and not look at the whole picture. The problems on this team are integrated and will take that approach to solve them. We already know that the core of this team is capable of producing wins, it happened last year, so we need to address the problems of what has changed and not changed between last years progress and this years downfalls.

Here's a few off the top of my head in no particular order:

Run Defense
Bradford is worse
Bad coverage opposite D-Rob
AJ has been hurt but he still dropped some important passes. I'm not too worried about him though.
Bad pass protection (should have been addressed this year)
TE
Hollings

This is strictly the view of TexHorns and does not necessarily reflect the views of any sane person

Last edited by TexHorns; 11-03-2005 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 11-04-2005   #160
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Originally Posted by markbeth
no he wasnt. carr was signed before the draft. are you saying his agent and all those lawyers around the signing were booing at the time.

He's talking about the actual draft day.
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