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Old 10-30-2005   #21
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Can we change the Title to Wongers latest excuses.
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Old 10-30-2005   #22
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Carr had two passes today where he looked like an NFL QB. The first TD to Mathis, our very first lead of the entire season, which is a record dating back to 1933. The second was the pass to Gaffney on 3rd and 19. Maybe because he has no faith in his o-line anymore, he does not scramble to make time to throw any longer. When he scrambles, it's to be a runner. I was at the game and on at least 2 of his runs there were receivers down field open, on one he had 3 guys deep against man coverage with no one underneath the receivers and our guys under the coverage. Having the DBs 2 steps away from your receiver is open in the NFL. Carr doesn't look to throw the ball if he has to move at all in the pocket. He locks onto the 1st receiver then looks to DD. If neither is open he's running. This may be justified due to his pass protection to date, but it's not NFL calliber football. I don't even blame Carr. It's like other posts say, we only audible from a run right to a run left. Our coaching is pathetic and that includes the coaching of Carr. Thank goodness our defense and Mathis made enough plays to put us in the position to win this one. Our coaches continue to play not to lose rather than playing to win. In this game, being close in the 4th was good enough for the W and I'll take it.

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Old 10-30-2005   #23
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View from the 600's -- Most of our routes involve only 3 receivers and there are just not any open. Just one time when Carr scrambles I would like to see a receiver make an effort to come back to Carr.
While most complained about all the dump passes to DD I would love to see that back in our offense. I saw it once today. He is not a great blocker, get him out in the patterns.
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Old 10-30-2005   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan Gal 312
View from the 600's -- Most of our routes involve only 3 receivers and there are just not any open. Just one time when Carr scrambles I would like to see a receiver make an effort to come back to Carr.
While most complained about all the dump passes to DD I would love to see that back in our offense. I saw it once today. He is not a great blocker, get him out in the patterns.
You bring up a good point Texan Gal. DD is a good receiving back and he did get close to 600 yards receiving last year. I think they could maybe utilize him more by putting him the slot or throw it to him on a rollout where he can get it on the run.
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Old 10-30-2005   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan Gal 312
View from the 600's -- Most of our routes involve only 3 receivers and there are just not any open. Just one time when Carr scrambles I would like to see a receiver make an effort to come back to Carr.
While most complained about all the dump passes to DD I would love to see that back in our offense. I saw it once today. He is not a great blocker, get him out in the patterns.
She gets it, why cant anybody else? Carr has NO options to check down to. Most of the time its only 1 or 2 recievers going out on routes, you think the opposing DB's have a hard time covering 2 recievers? Theses clowns they call coaches have this team so handcuffed they cant do anything.
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Old 10-30-2005   #26
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
So, what's Carr's excuse today? He had plenty of time to throw today and still ran himself into sacks while looking completely confused the entire game.

And a note to Big Dave.... the opposing team knows that every time you audible it is a run off left tackle. Try to change it up every once in a while.

We won, why don't you eat?
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Old 10-30-2005   #27
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Well im happy than we won but i agree with you Wonger David is no Great Qb not even a decent one for the mediocre play we get from him we should sign a journey man only at a much cheaper rate. but we won because thank god the coaching staff put the game on DD shoulders they couldnt afford to have david blow another game.

Fourth Quarter
Houston Texans continued...
2-10-CLE21 (15:00) D.Davis up the middle to CLV 17 for 4 yards (O.Roye, J.Fisk).
3-6-CLE17 (14:17) D.Carr pass incomplete to J.Gaffney.
4-6-CLE17 (14:12) K.Brown 35 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
CLE 13 HOU 16, Plays: 7 Yards: 15 Possession: 3:19.

Houston Texans at 14:08
K.Brown kicks 65 yards from HST 30 to CLV 5. J.Cribbs to CLV 25 for 20 yards (M.Norris, J.Bell).
Cleveland Browns at 14:01
1-10-CLE25 (14:01) T.Dilfer pass to B.Edwards to CLV 31 for 6 yards (S.Orr). (1 yard after catch.)
2-4-CLE31 (13:29) R.Droughns left tackle to CLV 34 for 3 yards (J.Simmons).
3-1-CLE34 (12:54) R.Droughns up the middle to CLV 34 for no gain (S.Payne, M.Greenwood).
4-1-CLE34 (12:04) K.Richardson punts 10 yards to CLV 44, Center-R.Pontbriand, out of bounds.
Houston Texans at 11:58
1-10-CLE44 (11:58) D.Davis up the middle to CLV 26 for 18 yards (L.Bodden).
1-10-CLE26 (11:18) PENALTY on HST-M.Brown, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CLV 26 - No Play.
1-15-CLE31 (11:00) D.Davis left tackle to CLV 23 for 8 yards (M.Lehan, L.Bodden).
2-7-CLE23 (10:22) D.Davis up the middle to CLV 20 for 3 yards (S.Jones).
3-4-CLE20 (9:46) D.Carr pass incomplete to J.Gaffney (B.Russell).
4-4-CLE20 (9:40) K.Brown 38 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
Cleveland Browns at 09:35
1-10-CLE28 (9:35) T.Dilfer pass incomplete to R.Droughns (R.Smith).
2-10-CLE28 (9:29) T.Dilfer pass to S.Heiden to CLV 34 for 6 yards (M.Greenwood). (No yards after catch.)
3-4-CLE34 (8:45) T.Dilfer right end to CLV 40 for 6 yards (A.Peek; G.Walker).
1-10-CLE40 (8:04) R.Droughns up the middle to HST 44 for 16 yards (M.Coleman).
1-10-HOU44 (7:30) R.Droughns left guard to HST 42 for 2 yards (T.Johnson, D.Robinson).
2-8-HOU42 (6:55) T.Dilfer pass incomplete to W.Green (C.Anderson).
3-8-HOU42 (6:50) T.Dilfer pass to A.Bryant to HST 22 for 20 yards (J.Simmons).
1-10-HOU22 (6:04) T.Dilfer pass incomplete to R.Droughns (D.Faggins).
2-10-HOU22 (5:59) R.Droughns right guard to HST 20 for 2 yards (C.Brown).
3-8-HOU20 (5:16) T.Dilfer pass incomplete to A.Bryant (D.Faggins). Play Challenged by CLV and Upheld. (Timeout #1 by CLV.)
4-8-HOU20 (5:10) P.Dawson 37 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-R.Pontbriand, Holder-K.Richardson.
CLE 16 HOU 16, Plays: 11 Yards: 52 Possession: 4:29.

Cleveland Browns at 05:06
P.Dawson kicks 73 yards from CLV 30 to HST -3. J.Mathis ran ob at CLV 40 for 63 yards (M.Lehan).
Houston Texans at 04:56
1-10-CLE40 (4:56) D.Davis up the middle to CLV 37 for 3 yards (C.Thompson, O.Roye).
2-7-CLE37 (4:22) J.Gaffney left end to CLV 27 for 10 yards (C.Thompson, B.Russell).
1-10-CLE27 (3:43) D.Davis right guard to CLV 22 for 5 yards (J.Fisk; K.Lang).
2-5-CLE22 (3:03) D.Carr right end ran ob at CLV 22 for no gain (L.Bodden). (QB bootleg with no receivers downfield.)
3-5-CLE22 (2:56) D.Carr pass incomplete to D.Armstrong.
4-5-CLE22 (2:50) K.Brown 40 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
CLE 16 HOU 19, Plays: 6 Yards: 18 Possession: 2:21.

Houston Texans at 02:45
K.Brown kicks 59 yards from HST 30 to CLV 11. C.McIntyre to CLV 27 for 16 yards (C.Anderson, R.Walker).
Cleveland Browns at 02:38
1-10-CLE27 (2:38) W.Green right end to CLV 33 for 6 yards (D.Polk).
2-4-CLE33 (2:05) W.Green left guard to CLV 40 for 7 yards (J.Simmons).
1-10-CLE40 (2:00) PENALTY on CLV-R.Tucker, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CLV 40 - No Play.
1-15-CLE35 (2:00) (Shotgun) T.Dilfer pass to B.Edwards to HST 39 for 26 yards (D.Faggins). (1 yard after catch.)
1-10-HOU39 (1:32) (Shotgun) W.Green up the middle to HST 38 for 1 yard (R.Smith).
2-9-HOU38 (1:09) (Shotgun) T.Dilfer pass incomplete to D.Northcutt (P.Buchanon).
3-9-HOU38 (1:03) (Shotgun) T.Dilfer sacked at HST 46 for -8 yards (G.Walker).
4-17-HOU46 (:50) T.Dilfer pass incomplete to A.Bryant (P.Buchanon).
Houston Texans at 00:43
1-10-HOU47 (:43) D.Carr kneels to HST 46 for -1 yards. (Line of scrimmage changes due to change of possession.)
2-11-HOU46 (:38) D.Carr kneels to HST 44 for -2 yards.
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Old 10-31-2005   #28
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David Carr played very good today, very smart football with what he has. Bradfords lack of effort is inexcusable, that costs Carr. The rollsouts are starting to be keyed on and we are losing that play. The coaching staff does not make adjustments to this and we are suffering for it. Carr needs to be able to take this offense as his own.
 
Old 10-31-2005   #29
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Originally Posted by Napa Auto Parts
So now the feds are after me wow im sure to be on AMW

I had a post to this thread deleted by Lucky last night for "an insult to wonger" ... so let me rephrase my original post ....


Methinks Wonger Doth Protest Too Much ...... that's a terrible paraphrase of Wm Shakespeare but it works
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Old 10-31-2005   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth
he does lock on to his reciever a little to much. but there were several times when he checked down today.


As many times as he has been on his back this year and all the Tide it takes to get those grass stains out,it is no wonder he is in the habit of locking into a reciever and getting rid of the ball,one game he gets a little protection and i mean a little,everyone thinks he should be superman,it only take a cow a couple times to get shocked by that fence before he quits trying to eat grass from the otherside and the day you turn that fence off don't expect him to just run over and start eating from that side again.:brickwall
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Old 10-31-2005   #31
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Carr was far from great but in this game it didn't matter. Too bad he can't play against his mentor every week.
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Old 10-31-2005   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBullTexan
Lest we all forget, Grantham was our DL coach up until this year. Do you think he can get inside Capers head a little bit? Now you know Capers knows this, and yet he gameplanned the same old stupid way he always does. Mr. predictable! And perish the thought of even trying to do some adjustments at halftime! Now you see how bad Cleveland must really be if we still beat 'em after all that!
A dunk monkey with a limp could get in Capers head....
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Old 10-31-2005   #33
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i'm really having a hard time calling this game a win, despite what the scoreboard says. the browns just handed us the game. when your punter muffs twice and you cough up the ball twice, you're not going to beat anyone ... even the texans. sorry if i'm being a downer, but despite getting the W we played as bad as any other game this season, if not worse.

as for carr, he had 2 good plays. the deep ball to mathis, and the 3rd & long to gaffney. outside of that i'm having a hard time praising him. 10 for 20 for 138 yards and 1td/1int isnt exactly going to scare defenses. his feet were as much of a problem as they always are, and please dont use the fact that the browns only got 2 sacks as a bright spot for carr's play. take away carr's longest run (7 yards) and he averaged a little over 1 yard per carry ... basically carr fleeing the pocket (for no reason) and this time actually getting back to the LOS. if not for a couple feet on those "running scared" plays ... he would've ended up with more sacks than carries. the pocket was there, yes the receivers probably werent, but carr still didnt bother to move within the pocket and scan the field.

the kid's got an arm and i for one cant wait til the day we get to see it's full potential ... but his head and feet still have a LOT of work to do.

and as always, our coaching is pathetic. carr had no legitimate threats outside of gaffney, and we never gave DD a chance to make a difference.
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Old 10-31-2005   #34
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I saw Carr move around in the pocket just fine. I don't know what game u were watching. Just take this one play where carr threw 20 yards on 3rd down to give us a first. He moved around in the pocket waiting for the play to develop. That was the best play i've seen from the line all year, the gave Carr time to throw. The play took forever because of thr route, you hardly ever see us get that kind of time.
 
Old 10-31-2005   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando
Exactly.....

Carr made some great passes today.
He made one "great" pass and a few decent passes that any NFL QB should be required to make.

138 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 50% completion rate and 6.9 ypp average... against one of the worst defenses in the NFL. This guy is barely a decent NFL backup.
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Old 10-31-2005   #36
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Everybody...

I just wanted to put this on the table (actually thought of starting a new thread for this) reference all the talk about Carr did/didn't do this or that and such-such WR did/didn't do something.

By and large this board has some very smart fans that have a keen eye...BUT very few can actually breakdown game tape and come up with anything other than mimicwhat they hear on ESPN Sunday Countdown. Even fewer people actually have access to coaches tapes which show the whole field and allow you to see the big picture. I get a chuckle out of people that TiVo the edited broadcast and "break down the game" on the boards here.

I guess my point is that we tend to make some pretty broad statements (sometimes borderline rude) about a players ability on very limited information. Example...David Carr. Every time I see some one post Carr holds the ball to long I wonder if they were at the game or just watching TV so they can tell if ANYBODY was actually kinda open. Just to let you know it's pretty tough to actually tell if someone is "locking in" on a receiver from most of the TV edits. It's also not uncommon to have a play with only a primary option and one safety valve.

I am a supporter of David Carr, however, he has issues with his game...inconsistency and patience in the pocket being chief among them. He also has a lower overall level of talent around him to work with. I believe that with the correct system and coaching he could be pretty good. My example here would be Jake Plummer. If anyone saw him playing in Arizona they would swear they were seeing Carr with a bird on his helmet. Jake goes to Denver and has flashes of brilliance and flashes of bull****. Once he is deprogrammed by Shanahan and Kubiak and starts playing with a better team he is consistently pretty good, not great and not horrible.

We can debate on Carr being worth a nickel all day...but it's tough to tell with the current coaching scheme and overall level of play from the team. He may in fact turn out to be a career back-up, we just don't know right now. As for Sunday's game...a win is a win and you are what you are. We won, who cares if it's the Browns, it could have been Indy for that matter (see SF vs TB yesterday). Could we have played better...yes, but right now I don't care.
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Old 10-31-2005   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Man
Everybody...

I just wanted to put this on the table (actually thought of starting a new thread for this) reference all the talk about Carr did/didn't do this or that and such-such WR did/didn't do something...........
Wow ... common sense ...... very refreshing ..... thanks
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Old 10-31-2005   #38
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Carr was better than Carr normally is yesterday.

I wish he was as good as a football player as Plummer is. Plummer at least has an undenialbe feel for the game and the ability to orchestrate comebacks. Both of these talents were seen pre Denver and have not been seen to date in Houston.
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Old 10-31-2005   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando
Starting a thread like this after we won just shows how negative you are.
Be nice ..... Big Brother is watching .......
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Old 10-31-2005   #40
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When you're in the stands and you can see the QB, the coverage, and the receiver(s) in their route(s) at the same time, you can see the things related to 'vision' and 'timing' and 'decision making' that are next to impossible to see on television without a precise replay.

When you're in the stands, you can miss some things too. There's too much going on at once to be able to see everything. That's why I typically use one to supplement the other before I praise or criticize anything other than the obvious.

Carr wasn't horrible yesterday but he sure wasn't great either. I'd like to see him in a different system -- that's why I wouldn't be opposed to the two year extension. That said, he has some issues that he needs to overcome too - things that aren't related to how far he can throw a ball or how fast he can run. It's not all the o-line or the system or the WR corps. Some of it is on him.
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