Great analysis of the O-line's performance on Sunday night - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

Yossarian · 10-20-2005

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ram...p?p=3073&cat=5

Quote:

Every NFL fan knows what has happened: Houston’s line still stinks.

But what I don’t like about the football media is the way they analyze offensive lines as single entities, rather than examining offensive linemen as individuals. We hear that Houston’s line is bad and Kansas City’s line is good, but we rarely hear specifics about the individual players on the line. So on Sunday I watched the Houston offensive line on every play of their horrible 42-10 loss to Seattle to try to figure out who was the weak link, and whether anyone pulled his weight.

Coach C. · 10-20-2005

Good article, but Pitts should have been 3 to 8, but the rest of the article was pretty right on. Other than the Zone Blocking scheme which is predominately applied to running the ball.

Texans Horror · 10-20-2005

Analyzing the O-line is a great thing, and I agree with the basic analysis that the o-line stinks, that nothing has been done about it, and that it will probably remain that way until our new HC. However, plays were considered bad for a player if they made a penalty, which sounds good, but it makes Pitts sound like one of our worst players. He had a different position, and as harsh a critic of the o-line as I am, I believe he deserves at least a 1-game gradint curve. I agree that Pitts and Wade is a great combo, and that no matter how the Texans cut it, they need the LT. This always leads me back to Wand. He is the missing link in the line. He did a decent job last year, and if Pendry can find it in his head to put him back on the line, many of the problems will be fixed (giving the 1 - 2 game curve). I don't think it will take Wand long to get back to form, and I think he will be even better since he had a year to learn the position in '04. Overall, I liked the analysis, though.

Texans Horror · 10-20-2005

A lot of them were making mistakes that we knew came from being "new" to that position, but I am thinking about how Pitts was moving to a position he used to play for Houston and McKinney was moving to a position he prefers to play. So I don't think they deserve much leniency. I'll give them to Cleveland to turn it around...

**eriadoc** · 10-20-2005

Quote from the article -

Quote:

And Carr is far from blameless in all this. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team that took an early lead use as many eight-man fronts as Seattle did. The Seahawks clearly didn’t think Houston’s passing game could beat them, and Carr proved them right, even though there were quite a few plays when Seattle rushed only three linemen and Carr had plenty of time to pass.

He states that Carr had to share some of the blame, yet he fails to mention what he did wrong. I think we all agree that Carr makes his share of mistakes, but I would have expected a bit more insight from someone who went to the trouble to analyze all this and then mention Carr's role in it. The only thing he mentions is Seattle rushing only three. Well, I doubt this guy picked up on it, but that means there are eight men covering only two to three receivers. Simple math, that.

touttail · 10-20-2005

That was a good article. Guy really put some time in analyzing each lineman. BTW-Pitts had two penalities for not lining up on the line, not one.

Makes you wonder what is going through Capers

and Casserly's

minds, knowing we are very weak with our offensive line and not drafting accordilngly!

bobby 119C :brickwall

Scooter · 10-20-2005

yall that are reading the article and citing "rookie mistakes" and "they were out of position", did you forget that the line has looked as bad or worse the entire season? these guys just arent very good to begin with, and what little talent some of them have ... for whatever reason isnt being applied on the field. to me, they just dont look like they care. 90% of that IMO is coaching ... getting everything out of the players you have and making them want to fight 60+ minutes of every game.

that being said, where's wand? did he get benched for making capers cry during a practice? he isnt listed as injured, and he's the only thing resembling a LT we've ever had. why is pitts still on the left side? why is mckinney not only allowed to be in the nfl, but getting paid like someone who's actually good?

eriadoc ... i think he left the carr analysis off of it because he was focusing on the line. what i'm suprised that he didnt mention though is the few times they only sent 3 or 4 is that they STILL got a good rush.

Ibar_Harry · 10-20-2005

"Milford Brown repeatedly struggled against the pass rush. On Houston’s final drive Seattle’s Rocky Bernard ran right past him to sack Carr. That was pretty much par for the course. Seattle’s defensive tackles are all fairly quick on inside pass rushes, and Brown just wasn’t ready for them. On several occasions Brown allowed rushers to get into Carr’s face.

Offensive coordinator Joe Pendry, who became Houston’s offensive line coach last year and took over as coordinator when Dom Capers fired Chris Palmer this season, believes in a zone-blocking scheme in which linemen block a specific area rather than a specific player. The problem, as I see it, is that too often Houston linemen just stood around doing nothing on plays when no Seattle players went into their zone. On one play, when no one came into Brown’s zone, he just stood there instead of looking to help one of his teammates."

I think this clearly states part of the problem and I've been eluding to it for a long time. Our players do not understand ZONE BLOCKING. It requires players to remain agressive and they simply don't know what they are doing with this scheme. I remember in the Titans game when people commented that Carr toke off on a run and people were just standing around and he got the 1st down literally on his own. Don't employ something your players can't understand and don't know how to use.

I have been posting for sometime I think the best line combo would be WAND, WIEGERT, HODGDSON, PITTS and WADE or REILLY. Unfortunately Wiegert is injured, but I still think that is the best combo and I would also say throw out the current play book and dust off the year 2 play book and go back to the old blocking technique. We might not win, but I will bet we will be a whole lot closer and the games will be a lot more exciting. As we gain confidence we might even surprise a few folks. This is ALL BECAUSE CAPRES WANTED A DENVER LIKE RUNNING GAME FOR WHICH NOT HE HAS THE PERSONNEL. HE AND PENDRY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THIS......................

Note, I would say we would try Washington at LG with injury to Wiegert, but that's because I do not like McKinny at all. How many times did Feeney get to Carr when Wand played LT? Also how many penalties did Wand get? Wand is on Pendry's list and I really don't think it has anything to do with football.

the wonger need food · 10-20-2005

A Seattle fan summed it up in the comments section. No new revelations, just interesting hear other fans' perspectives...

My friends and I were in Seattle for this one and noticed a few things.

1. Houston has absolutely zero chemistry! We were seated behind their bench and honestly once Seattle took the lead nobody talked to each other or were trying to find ways to fix things. They looked like they were waiting to get the game over with.

2. Play Calling- The Houston offence was soooo predictable it hurt. I was calling the plays that Houston would run and (with a witness I might add) called the exact play when they scored their one TD. This is a problem, if I can predict their offense imagine what a defensive coordinator can do.

3. Carr is scared- I dont think this is his fault cause lord knows most of us would have given up by know. Scared is the wrong word, Carr knows from experience that if he doesnt throw the ball hes going to get hit, so even when the line does a good job he is really antsy to throw the ball.

4. Recievers Stink- Twice Carr threw perfect throws to his recievers on obvious option routes that they missed. Say a DB is lining up way inside on a WR, a QB will spot this and the WR is supposed to know to turn outside at about 8-10 yards. Twice Carr threw absolute rockets while the reciever (Gaffney) was just aimlessly running down the field.

Personally I dont think this can be fixed, Carr would be incredible somewhere else, the fact that he has gone this long without trying to force a trade or anything is INCREDIBLE!! They really should trade Carr to a team for a good lineman, draft another one and pick up a veteran QB and move on.

**Runner** · 10-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry

How many times did Feeney get to Carr when Wand played LT? Also how many penalties did Wand get? Wand is on Pendry's list and I really don't think it has anything to do with football.

a) 3 times total in 2 games
b) 3 penalties all year

Ibar_Harry · 10-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner

a) 3 times total in 2 games
b) 3 penalties all year

Gee, no wonder he's not playing. The standards are too high for the other players. Sorry, but this coaching staff is beyond me. I know Mr. B thought Wand had the potential and talent to be an outstanding LT. That came from assessments while tuitoring him. I have a feeling that I would respect his judgement over what we have on this coaching staff. Wand's downfall started with zone blocking. Hmmm, guess I shouldn't say that should I.............................

Honoring Earl 34 · 10-20-2005

:brickwall The guys who run this team never cease to amaze me . I expect next week we'll find out that their all brother inlaws .

I think the coaching staff treaded water for three years and stayed fairly competetive . The offseason moves killed the team chemistry and now we're starting to see our true talent level . That includes GMs , coaches and players.

ccdude730 · 10-20-2005

wand had no bad plays....but no good ones either

but he was dressed in regular clothes on the sideline. WHY is he not dressed?!? my goodness this is driving me up a wall as to why we cant go back to wand-pitts on the left side.

rmartin65 · 10-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Quote from the article -

He states that Carr had to share some of the blame, yet he fails to mention what he did wrong. I think we all agree that Carr makes his share of mistakes, but I would have expected a bit more insight from someone who went to the trouble to analyze all this and then mention Carr's role in it. The only thing he mentions is Seattle rushing only three. Well, I doubt this guy picked up on it, but that means there are eight men covering only two to three receivers. Simple math, that.

It is also hard when Carr is not allowed to audible into a pass. He can only put it into a run I think.

Ibar_Harry · 10-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccdude730

wand had no bad plays....but no good ones either

but he was dressed in regular clothes on the sideline. WHY is he not dressed?!? my goodness this is driving me up a wall as to why we cant go back to wand-pitts on the left side.

I do not think Pitts works with Wand and that's why I want Pitts on the Right side. Wand is on the outs with Pendry. Its amazing how far this coaching staff can take us down the road of self distruction.

**utahmark** · 10-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65

It is also hard when Carr is not allowed to audible into a pass. He can only put it into a run I think.

ive never seen him audible to a pass. he needs to at least start faking some audibles. defenses have to know that everytime he audibles its a run.

Coach C. · 10-20-2005

Ibar would you not rather see Pitts at LT or a new premeire rookie and Wand at RT. I think Wand at RT would make him look really good. Plus that would let us get rid of weigert or McKinney. Eventhough I am a big fan of McKinney.

ccdude730 · 10-20-2005

wand was a project and i would be ok if he did not work out for us in the long run, but after playing 1 season he took way too much heat and i think he should get another chance at LT or RT. he would be better than riley and pitts at LT, and better in pass protection at RT than riley or wade.

Ibar_Harry · 10-20-2005

If you read the article you will find an evaluation of Pitts at tackle. The best way to put it is he is the pitts. Wand is far and away our best LT. I think he needs a working companion next to him like Wiegert. Although Washington might work. NO I DO NOT WANT PITTS NEXT TO WAND. I think Pitts is a problem and thinks he is more than he is. Pitts' agressive personality would be better served on the Right side of the line. However, Wand is in the dog house with someone, but anybody with a backbone might be with this coaching staff.

HomeBred_Texan · 10-20-2005

I saw this and almost spewed Dr. Pepper all over my monitor. Some good reading though. So now everyone is pointing fingers at our O-Line and not just the group, they finger point at each individual. Here is the link.
O-Linemen

Here is a rating of the O-Linemen.

Quote:

Bad plays consist mostly of missed blocks and penalties. Houston's linemen had a lot more bad plays than good plays, so I'll get into specific examples in a bit, but first, here are the results:

Player Position Good Plays Bad Plays
Chester Pitts LT 1 9
Milford Brown G 2 7
Drew Hodgdon C 0 6
Steve McKinney C/RG 1 5
Todd Wade RT 5 4
Victor Riley RT 1 5

Note: The starting lineup, from left to right, was Pitts, Brown, McKinney, Zach Wiegert, and Wade. Wiegert went down with an injury during the first series and hadn't done anything I marked as a good play or a bad play. Todd Washington filled in for him on the next two plays, and he also didn't do anything worth noting. Beginning with the second series, McKinney moved from center to guard and Hodgdon came in at center for the first NFL game of his career. Later in the first quarter, Riley came in for Wade at tackle. Riley and Wade alternated for much of the rest of the game.

10-20-2005	#7
Scooter Funky Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 33 Posts: 4,209 Rep Power: 11587	yall that are reading the article and citing "rookie mistakes" and "they were out of position", did you forget that the line has looked as bad or worse the entire season? these guys just arent very good to begin with, and what little talent some of them have ... for whatever reason isnt being applied on the field. to me, they just dont look like they care. 90% of that IMO is coaching ... getting everything out of the players you have and making them want to fight 60+ minutes of every game. that being said, where's wand? did he get benched for making capers cry during a practice? he isnt listed as injured, and he's the only thing resembling a LT we've ever had. why is pitts still on the left side? why is mckinney not only allowed to be in the nfl, but getting paid like someone who's actually good? eriadoc ... i think he left the carr analysis off of it because he was focusing on the line. what i'm suprised that he didnt mention though is the few times they only sent 3 or 4 is that they STILL got a good rush. __________________

10-20-2005	#12
Honoring Earl 34 Hey Koolaid Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston Age: 50 Posts: 16,741 Rep Power: 35890	:brickwall The guys who run this team never cease to amaze me . I expect next week we'll find out that their all brother inlaws . I think the coaching staff treaded water for three years and stayed fairly competetive . The offseason moves killed the team chemistry and now we're starting to see our true talent level . That includes GMs , coaches and players. __________________ "I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anybody help me out? ... Craig T. Nelson:

10-20-2005	#13
ccdude730 Hall of Fame Join Date: May 2004 Location: Corpus Christi Posts: 1,615 Rep Power: 128	wand had no bad plays....but no good ones either but he was dressed in regular clothes on the sideline. WHY is he not dressed?!? my goodness this is driving me up a wall as to why we cant go back to wand-pitts on the left side. __________________

10-20-2005	#18
ccdude730 Hall of Fame Join Date: May 2004 Location: Corpus Christi Posts: 1,615 Rep Power: 128	wand was a project and i would be ok if he did not work out for us in the long run, but after playing 1 season he took way too much heat and i think he should get another chance at LT or RT. he would be better than riley and pitts at LT, and better in pass protection at RT than riley or wade. __________________

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10-20-2005	#2
Coach C. Hall of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SE Houston Posts: 1,422 Rep Power: 10	Good article, but Pitts should have been 3 to 8, but the rest of the article was pretty right on. Other than the Zone Blocking scheme which is predominately applied to running the ball.

10-20-2005	#3
Texans Horror Hall of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 39 Posts: 2,303 Rep Power: 24	Analyzing the O-line is a great thing, and I agree with the basic analysis that the o-line stinks, that nothing has been done about it, and that it will probably remain that way until our new HC. However, plays were considered bad for a player if they made a penalty, which sounds good, but it makes Pitts sound like one of our worst players. He had a different position, and as harsh a critic of the o-line as I am, I believe he deserves at least a 1-game gradint curve. I agree that Pitts and Wade is a great combo, and that no matter how the Texans cut it, they need the LT. This always leads me back to Wand. He is the missing link in the line. He did a decent job last year, and if Pendry can find it in his head to put him back on the line, many of the problems will be fixed (giving the 1 - 2 game curve). I don't think it will take Wand long to get back to form, and I think he will be even better since he had a year to learn the position in '04. Overall, I liked the analysis, though.

10-20-2005	#6
touttail All Pro Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baytown Age: 58 Posts: 948 Rep Power: 9	That was a good article. Guy really put some time in analyzing each lineman. BTW-Pitts had two penalities for not lining up on the line, not one. Makes you wonder what is going through Capers and Casserly's minds, knowing we are very weak with our offensive line and not drafting accordilngly! bobby 119C :brickwall

10-20-2005	#8
Ibar_Harry Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,219 Rep Power: 14	"Milford Brown repeatedly struggled against the pass rush. On Houston’s final drive Seattle’s Rocky Bernard ran right past him to sack Carr. That was pretty much par for the course. Seattle’s defensive tackles are all fairly quick on inside pass rushes, and Brown just wasn’t ready for them. On several occasions Brown allowed rushers to get into Carr’s face. Offensive coordinator Joe Pendry, who became Houston’s offensive line coach last year and took over as coordinator when Dom Capers fired Chris Palmer this season, believes in a zone-blocking scheme in which linemen block a specific area rather than a specific player. The problem, as I see it, is that too often Houston linemen just stood around doing nothing on plays when no Seattle players went into their zone. On one play, when no one came into Brown’s zone, he just stood there instead of looking to help one of his teammates." I think this clearly states part of the problem and I've been eluding to it for a long time. Our players do not understand ZONE BLOCKING. It requires players to remain agressive and they simply don't know what they are doing with this scheme. I remember in the Titans game when people commented that Carr toke off on a run and people were just standing around and he got the 1st down literally on his own. Don't employ something your players can't understand and don't know how to use. I have been posting for sometime I think the best line combo would be WAND, WIEGERT, HODGDSON, PITTS and WADE or REILLY. Unfortunately Wiegert is injured, but I still think that is the best combo and I would also say throw out the current play book and dust off the year 2 play book and go back to the old blocking technique. We might not win, but I will bet we will be a whole lot closer and the games will be a lot more exciting. As we gain confidence we might even surprise a few folks. This is ALL BECAUSE CAPRES WANTED A DENVER LIKE RUNNING GAME FOR WHICH NOT HE HAS THE PERSONNEL. HE AND PENDRY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THIS...................... Note, I would say we would try Washington at LG with injury to Wiegert, but that's because I do not like McKinny at all. How many times did Feeney get to Carr when Wand played LT? Also how many penalties did Wand get? Wand is on Pendry's list and I really don't think it has anything to do with football.

10-20-2005	#9
the wonger need food Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston Age: 43 Posts: 2,534 Rep Power: 1085	A Seattle fan summed it up in the comments section. No new revelations, just interesting hear other fans' perspectives... My friends and I were in Seattle for this one and noticed a few things. 1. Houston has absolutely zero chemistry! We were seated behind their bench and honestly once Seattle took the lead nobody talked to each other or were trying to find ways to fix things. They looked like they were waiting to get the game over with. 2. Play Calling- The Houston offence was soooo predictable it hurt. I was calling the plays that Houston would run and (with a witness I might add) called the exact play when they scored their one TD. This is a problem, if I can predict their offense imagine what a defensive coordinator can do. 3. Carr is scared- I dont think this is his fault cause lord knows most of us would have given up by know. Scared is the wrong word, Carr knows from experience that if he doesnt throw the ball hes going to get hit, so even when the line does a good job he is really antsy to throw the ball. 4. Recievers Stink- Twice Carr threw perfect throws to his recievers on obvious option routes that they missed. Say a DB is lining up way inside on a WR, a QB will spot this and the WR is supposed to know to turn outside at about 8-10 yards. Twice Carr threw absolute rockets while the reciever (Gaffney) was just aimlessly running down the field. Personally I dont think this can be fixed, Carr would be incredible somewhere else, the fact that he has gone this long without trying to force a trade or anything is INCREDIBLE!! They really should trade Carr to a team for a good lineman, draft another one and pick up a veteran QB and move on.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Remove advertisements Sponsored links