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Old 10-20-2005   #61
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This snippet is from the Niagra Falls Reporter and deals mostly with the Bills situation with Gregg Williams. It is an older article as it was written while Williams was still Bills HC.
---------------------------------

Here's the snippet I took, and here's the link Mid-Season change-a-rooskie to read the story yourself.

"..Football, though, involves complex systems that take months to fully install. Unlike baseball, basketball or hockey, you can't change styles simply by switching tacticians.

When NFL teams change coaches in midseason, it's generally a sign that the season is already lost, and the front office is trying to give fans a reason to keep coming to the stadium. That's why the Bills dumped Hank Bullough for Marv Levy in 1986 with Buffalo holding a 2-7 record..."

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My opinion: Yes, it is difficult to change HC's mid-season and expect much of anything good to happen. But notice the ending comment the author makes about "...it's generally a sign that the season is already lost, and the front office is trying to give fans a reason to keep coming to the stadium."

Last time I checked, you don't have a football team (a business) unless you generate revenues. And you generate revenues by getting fans to the stadium. They buy cokes, beer, hot dogs, souvenirs, etc. Ridding this team of a few coaches and bringing in interim coaches, such as a Marv Levy-type who obviously was a complete failure since he only took the Bills to only four Super Bowls after taking the team over, is a very acceptable course of action. It's not easy. It probably doesn't have "sure success" written all over it, but it does give the fans a sense that losing BADLY is not acceptable no matter what is the primary and/or secondary problems.
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Old 10-20-2005   #62
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And, here's an article discussing the firing of Doc Rivers of the Orlando Magic...who dropped about a dozen games in the early part of the seaosn and was abruptly fired even before mid-season.

Magic HC change-a-rooskie

Here's a sample of the article:

"....But there's a silver lining: the Magic acted early. Teams that pull the trigger in the first 15 games have tended to have much more success than the others. There have only been six in the past 13 years, but the chart below shows that all six finished better than they started, and five of the six improved considerably."

The site has stats showing Before & After winning percentages when coaches are changed during a season. Albeit it is NBA and NFL, but it shows that taking action early is not always a death nail in the coffin of an already dying pro sports team.
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Old 10-20-2005   #63
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Let's Go Astros, Let's Go Astros, Let's Go Astros!
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Old 10-20-2005   #64
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Screw the owner. If he didn't put the garbage on the field that he did I wouldn't have to boo. This motivates me to boo more
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Old 10-20-2005   #65
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Firing Capers is not the key . This seasons snowballing as we sit . Who we bring in is everything ... we can at least get some credibility with all that are involved .
I do think its a total spring cleanig thats got to happen .
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Old 10-20-2005   #66
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If I ate at my favorite steakhouse 5 times in a row and it was bad, do I keep going back for more?

If I was watching new episodes of "LOST" on TV and there were bad five times in a row, do I keep watching?

hmmmmmmmmmmm.........
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Old 10-20-2005   #67
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Does Lost have scantily cladded young lady's like survivor ?
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Old 10-20-2005   #68
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[quote=SESupergenius]If I ate at my favorite steakhouse 5 times in a row and it was bad, do I keep going back for more?

[quote]

Absolutely not. Follow on question:

Do you (global "you", not SES) continue going, paying good money for bad food, and boo?

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Old 10-20-2005   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaboycm
Screw the owner. If he didn't but the garbage on the field that he did I wouldn't have to boo. This motivates me to boo more

IMHO we have a good owner, and Leinart ain't all that great.
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Old 10-20-2005   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
Originally Posted by Nighthawk
...McNair has got his head in a hole like the rest of the losers associated with this team.



What then, sell and move the team away AGAIN?...

If you don't like the team, or the entire organization, then why are you even a fan? Since this Texans team is obviously not giving you what you want, I would suggest that you find some other sport, or team, to cheer for. --MALLOY

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What choice is given to a fan when the owner "might" be telling the fans to shut up and take it?

We've been lied to. We were told the pass protection would be better, and it's WORSE than it was. WORSE. Not the same, not a little better than last year, WORSE.

My family has a saying, "Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me twice, shame on ME" meaning that getting fooled by someone else is OK the first time, and it's the fooler's fault for being dishonest. But to get fooled again by the same person is on your own shoulders because you can't see the pattern developing.

There is a pattern developing here. And the pattern is "This is what you're going to get," but when it doesn't materialize as planned or expected...you get told, "Shut up. Cheer. Like it or else..."

Now THAT's an organization any sports fan wants to follow, right?

"We stink? Oh well, at least we have football again."

The game is a game, but it's a game that is played to be WON. And you win by scoring more points than your opponents. If you do not win, you lose. And if you lose, you are (drum roll please) a LOSER. Yes, all of the activities such as tailgating are a PART of the game but they are not the game itself. How cool is it to walk into a restaurant that has great atmosphere, and the best service from the parking lot to the cashier, and you paid $100 for a meal that was burnt, tasted bad, and should have cost about $1.50 on the eastside of town?

The argument by some posters that says "It's about enjoying the whole experience" is mistaken, IMO. The experience happens on its own, win or lose. And it's merely a caveat to the real goal: Win, and most importantly win championships.

Biggio and Baggy are still playing because (drum roll again) they want to win and they want to win championships. They are tired. They are worn out. They have families that they would like to enjoy after being away from them for 18 and 15 years respectively...but they stuck it out each year to...win. It wasn't the smell of the grass on a summer day that kept them coming back, it was the promise of winning a championship. Was the smell of the grass, and the sounds of a crowd enjoyable to them? You bet. It helped them to perservere through the agony of defeat...but the primary reason they are still here is to win, and to namely win a world series.

So it is with all of sports. If winning wasn't the goal, no score would be kept.

And I know there's not a SINGLE fan here, whether you just signed up or have been here since you were five-years-old thorugh the Oilers era, who would jump ship if we were losing COMPETITIVELY week after week. It's to be expected to lose a game by a TD or a FG. But to lose the way we are losing, it will go down in sports history as one of the most laughable, agonizing, and embarassing seasons of any sports team in any type of sport. Period. And if you're OK with shrugging it off, then you are also a part of the joke that will be told for generations of sports fans to come.

Losing happens, but the excuses concocted here of "why" we should wait until the end of the season to fire Capers and rebuild is just a lack of vision and courage. I want the owner to do everything in his power to win NEXT weekend, not next year. And to tread on egg shells as if we can't possibly tear this thing down in mid-season is a lack of risk taking.

Well, Capers has had four solid years of "free pass" to do exactly what he wants, and he's had a GM that stands in his corner on player drafting, etc., and to think that he deserves the right to stay until the end of the season just on principle alone is absurd. It's a business. Get it done no matter how you have to get it done. Make the phantom tag at second base and sell it like you made it (Adam Everett). Slide sideways into third and take out their third basemen (Jason Lane). Pretend you called time so Larry Walker has to go back to second base instead of advancing to third (Ensberg).

You gotta play like you want to win, and that goes for OWNERSHIP too.

It's as if McNair is keeping Capers out of the goodness of his heart, and the fans are watching their team get embarassed WEEKLY. Not every other week. WEEKLY. See a pattern? I do.

McNair might be playing poker. And, he might not. I hope he is, but even if he is...I gotta admit that I am having second thoughts about the credibility of the ownership. It starts at the top, and he's got to be willing to axe a guy who is a class guy on and off the field.

So tell Biggio that getting to the world series is not what it's all about. He'll look at you like you're nuts.

Herm Edwards to the press: "We PLAY the game to WIN."

McNair: please play the game to win. Pull the trigger. Drop the bomb. Call Ty from ABC Extreme Home Makeover. Do what it takes to win. Cheering is a natural bi-product of winning, or at least the possibility of winning.
I am going to respectfully disagree with the majority of what you say. For you to say we need to boo and not show up and dont buy the merchandise and put on the paper bags, we'll show them. If you go to the games, you root for the Texans just for a win, then you are missing the best part of football. Ask any Greenbay fan. And if you cant get that then the joke is on you.

Hey I am not saying I dont care Texans ever win, my Mondays would be a whole lot more enjoyable. It kills me. But i enjoy getting out of bed sunday mornings, watch sportcenter, bbq for the game and hanging out with my friends, win or loose. How would you like to be McNair who spent seven hundred million dollars for this team.

If you think that the true, hardcore, diehard, stick with your team no matter what-fan(me) would turn its back on it's team just cause it sucks, then you dont know what the definition of a fan is. Sorry.

For anyone who thinks McNair is lying to you just to take your money,think,he could have made it easy on himself and applied for the L.A. franchise. He would have gotten that a whole lot easier and wouldnt have been hit so hard on the franchise fee's.

I alson remember *****in about another owner of ours who was always in the teams biz and just needed to be an owner and now we are *****in cause this one isnt doing anything. just cant make some people happy.
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Old 10-20-2005   #71
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You get booing when you play like you don't care. If you don't give the effort on the field, don't expect me to. If they played every game like they played Cincy and still lose every game , that's a whole lot different than the crap against Pittsburgh, Tennessee, Buffalo and Seattle. Having the problems they have is one thing, playing like a bad high school team is another.

Mr. McNair, put a competitive team on the field and you won't hear any boos. But if you continue to NOT address GLARING problems year after year then I don't see how you expect to be competitive, and I'm sorry, I'm not a lovable loser Cub fan. Yeah, I'll be there to support my team, but I WILL voice my displeasure. If that means sending letters, wearing paper sacks or booing, then so be it.
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Old 10-20-2005   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
If I ate at my favorite steakhouse 5 times in a row and it was bad, do I keep going back for more?

If I was watching new episodes of "LOST" on TV and there were bad five times in a row, do I keep watching?

hmmmmmmmmmmm.........
I agree with your perplexed state. If Lost stinks the network just plugs in a new program. If the Texans leave it will be back to U of H vs. Rice for Houstonians for their local football fix.
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Old 10-20-2005   #73
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TEXANRED:

I think you took my comments way out of context. I don't play the real fan vs. not real fan card. Never have, never will. I defend all of our rights to say whatever we wish and still be considered a fan. Heck, I get called more names on this board than anybody.

So I will summarize and condense:

1. Booing all the time is not acceptable. I never said we SHOULD go and BOO ALL THE TIME as you say I said.

2. I DID say that to expect fans to CHEER through the garbage is also not acceptable.

I think this whole thread is getting out of hand. Here's the deal: A reasonable person understands that 100% cheering and 100% booing are the same thing: Equally ignorant.

What I feel the Texans fans are being asked to do is to cheer EVEN WHEN IT'S NOT WARRANTED.

I CHEERED when Kris Brown tried to pick up the ball and score a TD. Normally, I would have BOOED him because he didn't secure the turnover. However, the situation WARRANTED a CHEER because we needed something spectacular to happen, and a kicker was willing to offer up his body to give the team a boost of confidence.

I BOO when I see Capers write in his notebook and give off this "worried father" look.

I BOO when it's 4th and inches and we punt...already down by three scores.

I CHEER when Peek jumps on top of the gang-tackled ball carrier because he wasn't stopping or slowing down to a walk at the end of the play.

So cheering and booing are acceptable. But for anybody, let alone the guy who is in charge of paying the coaches AND the players (McNair) says that "maybe" if we would cheer them more, we would see better results, then I have to scratch my head and wonder what scientific proof he has that faking enjoyment will bring about the desired changes.
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Old 10-20-2005   #74
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Here is my last say on the booing. IMO, if you are going to boo the HOME team then you should stay home and let the real fans enjoy the game.

But again IMO
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Old 10-20-2005   #75
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I don't see the boos accomplishing anything. If you have something productive to add (to the game, not this thread), then please do so. Negativity is not going to accomplish anything that isn't already accomplished - aside from maybe making the booing individual have a bad Sunday. A certain amount of negative reinforcement can be beneficial, but this situation is far beyond that point. I'm not sure positive reinforcement will have any better effect on the team, but perhaps a few fans might leave in a slightly better state of mind.

I'm not telling people to do one or the other, but seriously - if you have nothing better to do than give yourself high blood pressure over a situation you know isn't going to be aided by booing, why boo? Or maybe they think booing will actually help? Beats me .....
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Old 10-20-2005   #76
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If the coaches call a run up the middle on 3rd and 15, I'm going to boo the call. If Carr runs out of bounds 3 yards behind the line scrimmage rather than throw it 4 yards out of bounds, I'm going to boo. Let's face it, if the play warrants it, I'm going to do it. When a puppy takes a dump on the floor, I don't praise it. Of course I still love the puppy and I will praise him like crazy when he fetches a ball and "makes good" outside. I agree with the guy who posted there are times to boo and other times not to boo. In the 4th year, we expect the team to have matured enough that there would be less booing and more cheering. My dog was pretty much fully trained in 1 year.
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Old 10-20-2005   #77
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Good read, a lot of soul searching in this thread .... what McNair said and what it really all means...??? .. Apparently he is getting an earful, and he felt it was time to respond. What else could he say at this point in his attempt to calm the fans? Not much.



Quote:
So cheering and booing are acceptable. But for anybody, let alone the guy who is in charge of paying the coaches AND the players (McNair) says that "maybe" if we would cheer them more, we would see better results, then I have to scratch my head and wonder what scientific proof he has that faking enjoyment will bring about the desired changes.
... faking enjoyment? .. (with you) .. love that.
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Old 10-20-2005   #78
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Well the owner came out and said "We need the fans to do what they did in the past." Cheer and support our team." Sure, I buy it! But what we the fans need is to have the Texans do what they did in the past and thats' is to be competative and win! Capers has to come out an speak! He is the coach, with all due respect to the owner, "you did your job, you got us the Texans team." Now sit down shut up and listen! We want to hear what Capers has to say!

I love the Texans but what have they done for us to cheer?
Let review:
Let go Glenn, Sharper...etc.

Traded two first picks for Buchanon?? Not cheering! What has he done except get in the way? any INTs? NO!

We are 0-5 feel like a cheer? NO, feel like screaming!

Scoring ?Ha? Cheer? NO

Bad calls uhhh give me a break!

We are Undefeated in Battle Red Jerseys!!! Is that ALL we have to cheer for?? Better hope the Red Magic Jerseys are in working order!! uhhhh C

Cheer for the red jerseys!!!! The player in them better not let the fans down or we might booo!!! What a crock!! we want results not excuses! we hear plenty of them!

The Mighty Disgusted Texan!!
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Old 10-20-2005   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner

Absolutely not. Follow on question:

Do you (global "you", not SES) continue going, paying good money for bad food, and boo?
The analogy is that I can't boo the TV, nobody will hear me. I can just refuse to go. Now I paid for DirectTV for the year so there is no turning back. But I will not be purchasing Texans garb this year as I normally do. Besides, I'll never buy a player jersey again, they just don't stay around long enough to warrant it.

But If were at a theatrical play for instance and the actors were doing a horrible job, then I'd boo. If I went to see Linkin Park and the band was all out of tune, yep I'd boo.
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Old 10-20-2005   #80
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Quote:
I'll never buy a player jersey again, they just don't stay around long enough to warrant it.
Ain't that the truth! Let's play count the Sharper jerseys this Sunday!

Strange, he was good enough for the Texans last year to warrant his own battle red jersey (just last year!)....

I agree with much of this thread, especially as it relates to bonehead decisions by management.

But I'm still not going to quit the team. Criticize the h-e-double-hockey-sticks of 'em - YES! But quit - no.

It's my team, and it's the only football team I've got.
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