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Old 10-20-2005   #41
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It is hard to rock when you are asked to cover people for 5 to 7 seconds. That is hard on any secondary, Deon, Green, Woodson, and some of the best corners would tell you it is damn near impossible. Plus He is trying to coach a depleted secondary that now has a two nicklebacks on the opposite end of D-Rob.
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Old 10-20-2005   #42
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Originally Posted by Hulk75
There is no room for Booing any team, ever, What is the point do you think it makes them play better.

I dont care what anybodys record is you never boo, it is desrespectful to your team. They get booed on the road WHY would they want to hear it from their hometown "Fans".

Remeber when we were considered one of the loudest stadiums in the NFL?

Remember when we had a team that played with heart?
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Old 10-20-2005   #43
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Some of you guys are cracking me up. Like a bunch of rats jumping off of a ship taking on water.

The ship is not sinking!! Sure, it's got to be pulled into port for refitting, but it'll be sailing again next year. Don't quit your team over one friggin' season!

So you go ahead and make that jump - yes, off of the bandwagon - and the rest of us hardcore fanatics will stick with the team during the hard times. Because this organization WILL get better. It's only a matter of time.

Staying a fan doesn't mean you can't criticize. But as long as it is constructive and analytical (not emotional...calling out Bob McNair! You should be ashamed of yourselves! tsk tsk)

You keep the hope, even when you don't think we'll win. YOU KEEP THE HOPE ALIVE!

Mr. McNair has always said that he is a fan owner. So he's talking from a fan's perspective - DON'T GIVE UP HOPE!! (What do you want? A "wannabe-GM owner" like Dan Snider?!)

Regardless of one season, we can't lose sight of the fact that success is just a matter of time.

Cut the owner some slack. If you truly expect him to come out and publicly diss the team, you've lost sight of a little thing call professionalism. I'd be disappointed in him if he said anything else at this point.

Just be patient, my fellow Texans fanatics, just be patient. And keep the hope alive.
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Old 10-20-2005   #44
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Great posts, Vinny and Coach C. When I saw McNair on TV and read the full article in the Chronicle, I came to the same conclusion you two did. Capers and his coaches will be gone next year. I don't know about Casserly, but I'm cautiously optimistic he will get the boot as well.

The team, as bad as it is right now, is stocked with a number of good young players that can be successful with more help and better coaching. If we get the first overall pick and trade it down slightly, we can land a stud OT and some additional high picks and/or players to reload the team. Add in some judicious free agent signings and first class coaching, and the team will be competitive again in no time.

I have confidence that McNair will do the right things once this disaster of a season comes to an end. I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 10-20-2005   #45
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I think when you have the 3rd highest payroll in the league and your performance has been as bad as the Texans', McNair is doing his part by opening his wallet but the GM and coaches are not doing their parts. I too believe that this may be a read between the lines statement that McNair is telling the fans to hold in there until he can get rid of the staff. Let's face it, the head coach, offensive coordinator, and defensive coordinator are all Capers' people.

Our receivers are not performing up to par so promoting that coach to OC doesn't sound appealling. Anyone want to promote the other line coach to OC ? That would leave the QB coach or running backs coach which I don't know that either could solve the problem. We can't implement an entirely new playbook in one week so we're stuck.

As far as defense, it's all Fangio's people. Everyone wants to promote Hoke to DC. Has anyone seen Buchanon become what they thought he'd be under Hoke's tutelage? What about CC Brown not playing the run support like he should or covering his man like he should either? If you want to give it to Hoke based on D Rob's performance, well that's just not right. Again, we can't change the playbook in just one week, so, again, we are pretty much stuck.

For any of you wanting to promote our special teams coach, we are very much a middle of the pack special teams team. That with Kris Brown and Stanley as our kickers and Buchanon and Mathis as our return men. Does this sound like we should be middle of the pack?

I think McNair wants more for his investment. He bought into the 5-year plan that Capers said he had, but the wheels have fallen off in year 4. Coincidentally, I believe that's the same year they fell of for him with Carolina. Now, I think McNair is just trying to salvage fan support until he can do something about it.
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Old 10-20-2005   #46
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
I don't buy it. McNair is attempting to use a simple psychological theory called 'Cognitive Dissonance' which states that if you say something outloud enough, you'll eventually believe it (simplified version). You see this a lot with eating disorder research, where girls will say 'Im not fat' over and over and 'Celebrity bodies are airbrushed' and eventually get the idea they can't be perfect. McNair wants us to cheer for the Texans so that we will start to believe that we like them again. He is losing money because people aren't coming to games, aren't paying top dollar for tickets, and aren't purchasing souveniers. If this team seemed to be making any effort (Fonoti anyone?!?) then I would be more apt to show some love. As it is, Im glad their in Houston and all, but this is not a good season.
In my opinion this attitude (not specific to you, but by the fan base as a whole) is why we lost the oilers, and it is why Taglibu first said we would not get another team and why the rest of the nation thinks this is a poor football town, and why Texas is thought of as cowboy country.

I complain about how the team puts up a lackluster perfromance and missrepresents the city of houston, but I feel we do the same to ourselves when we boo our own team and not show up to games.

Ultimately it is just a game. You dont go just for the game, you go for the experience. The tailgate, the BBQ, the beer, socialize, the bands, razzing the other teams fans.

If you stand behind your team during the good times then you have to stand behind them in the bad. This is a bad times but focus on just having fun and know this isnt forever.
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Old 10-20-2005   #47
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My opinion is that I am glad the McNair made himself available for a comment. I did not expect him him to provide a gameplan for success and nor should he as it is his investment. I have invested in his business model that he brought to Houston and will continue to do so.

I am from Austin and have no allegiance to Houston. I left the Cowboys due to a meddling owner and player's out of control and to start with somehting fresh. The product may not be fresh at this moment, but the experience of watching MY TEAM remains fresh. I will take the heckles at work every Friday with my Jersey on as I belive my turn to heckle others will be coming in the future due to Mr. McNair's focus, wallet and will.
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Old 10-20-2005   #48
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MeanMark8 I just wanted to address your Hoke thoughts. CC Brown is playing great considering he is a 5th round pick. Right now around the league he is considered one of the steals of the draft. Does he need to learn zone placement and proper angles of course he does, but so did every safety to play in this league. You talk about Buch not becoming what he is supposed to, the kid is in his 4th year and the fact of the matter is you cant turn a bad apple into a good one. Hoke focuses on trying to cut all the rot of PBuch(bad apple reference) it will take time. I do admit Hoke does need to focus those guys in better zone coverage since Fangio insists on running it 60% of the time. Our guys other than PBuch are much better in man coverage, but that is not gonna get the job done as long as we have no pass rush.
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Old 10-20-2005   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
MeanMark8 I just wanted to address your Hoke thoughts. CC Brown is playing great considering he is a 5th round pick. Right now around the league he is considered one of the steals of the draft. Does he need to learn zone placement and proper angles of course he does, but so did every safety to play in this league. You talk about Buch not becoming what he is supposed to, the kid is in his 4th year and the fact of the matter is you cant turn a bad apple into a good one. Hoke focuses on trying to cut all the rot of PBuch(bad apple reference) it will take time. I do admit Hoke does need to focus those guys in better zone coverage since Fangio insists on running it 60% of the time. Our guys other than PBuch are much better in man coverage, but that is not gonna get the job done as long as we have no pass rush.
Actually, Brown is a 6th round pick. I'm sorry but I saw him get run over by Payton of the Titans like he was PBuch on Payton's way to the endzone. He doesn't have the hitting power you need out of your strong safety. I'm completely at a loss on why we have given up on Earl at safety. I know he was hurt but I believe he is healed now. Earl is much better in run support and coverage than Brown. Yes, he has a full year's more experience, which it would seem to me would indicate you'd want to play him. As for PBuch, I think the Texans thought it was his coaching with the Raiders that held him back. He doesn't back-pedal enough or turn his hips right in man coverage. Supposedly, the Texans' staff was going to teach him how. I'm assuming it was our d-backs coach who would do that. I don't know that anyone thought they could get him to hit anybody.
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Old 10-20-2005   #50
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The Raiders did not like P-Buch and they said he was not good in coverage, that had nothing to do with coaching, because Woodson had the same coach and was great in coverage. My mistake on Brown's draft status, but after the 4th they are all just projects. CC has the talent to be a very effective FS. It is not Hoke who put him in to play at SS. In training camp(if you came to them) he lined up at FS because he has more speed than Earl. Earl is the better SS, but think of the job Brown is doing out of posistion and you understand what Hoke provides. Think of how Aaron Glenn said that Hoke is one of the best coaches he has ever played for. Glenn played for Slocum man freakin RC Slocum(forgive me a A&M alumni). Check the smooth transistion for Coleman, and not to mention Earl who he rode all last year and coached him up. I still dont understand why he has not been on the field, but why has Armstrong not been on the field. I think your problem may be with Capers.
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Old 10-20-2005   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I am from Austin and...will take the heckles at work every Friday with my Jersey on as I belive my turn to heckle others will be coming in the future due to Mr. McNair's focus, wallet and will.

In Austin and you call yourself a Texans fan first? Good God, man, are the Longhorns fans not killing you?

(For the record, I'm a UT alumnus and a Longhorns fan; I just know how rabid Austin must be with UT gunning for the National Championship.)
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Old 10-20-2005   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyfro
i think most texan fans have the same mindset...we'll cheer our butts off until the team begins to lose in a manor that is unacceptable...what i mean by that is playing with no heart and it shows...the team hasn't had any heart since the beginning of the season...we look like a boxer that just got punched in the mouth and is still stunned
I agree with this statement 100%.

If the team were staying in games and giving an effort to win, then I will cheer till I am horse in the throat. At least that is what I did last season! This season has been different. The players are not giving forth the effort and it shows in their faces.

However, if the team doesn't give forth any effort, are getting blown out of games, and not listening to the coaches on the sidelines, then this is what I will look like come Sunday
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Old 10-20-2005   #53
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Originally Posted by Nighthawk
...McNair has got his head in a hole like the rest of the losers associated with this team.



What then, sell and move the team away AGAIN?...

If you don't like the team, or the entire organization, then why are you even a fan? Since this Texans team is obviously not giving you what you want, I would suggest that you find some other sport, or team, to cheer for. --MALLOY

-------------------------------

What choice is given to a fan when the owner "might" be telling the fans to shut up and take it?

We've been lied to. We were told the pass protection would be better, and it's WORSE than it was. WORSE. Not the same, not a little better than last year, WORSE.

My family has a saying, "Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me twice, shame on ME" meaning that getting fooled by someone else is OK the first time, and it's the fooler's fault for being dishonest. But to get fooled again by the same person is on your own shoulders because you can't see the pattern developing.

There is a pattern developing here. And the pattern is "This is what you're going to get," but when it doesn't materialize as planned or expected...you get told, "Shut up. Cheer. Like it or else..."

Now THAT's an organization any sports fan wants to follow, right?

"We stink? Oh well, at least we have football again."

The game is a game, but it's a game that is played to be WON. And you win by scoring more points than your opponents. If you do not win, you lose. And if you lose, you are (drum roll please) a LOSER. Yes, all of the activities such as tailgating are a PART of the game but they are not the game itself. How cool is it to walk into a restaurant that has great atmosphere, and the best service from the parking lot to the cashier, and you paid $100 for a meal that was burnt, tasted bad, and should have cost about $1.50 on the eastside of town?

The argument by some posters that says "It's about enjoying the whole experience" is mistaken, IMO. The experience happens on its own, win or lose. And it's merely a caveat to the real goal: Win, and most importantly win championships.

Biggio and Baggy are still playing because (drum roll again) they want to win and they want to win championships. They are tired. They are worn out. They have families that they would like to enjoy after being away from them for 18 and 15 years respectively...but they stuck it out each year to...win. It wasn't the smell of the grass on a summer day that kept them coming back, it was the promise of winning a championship. Was the smell of the grass, and the sounds of a crowd enjoyable to them? You bet. It helped them to perservere through the agony of defeat...but the primary reason they are still here is to win, and to namely win a world series.

So it is with all of sports. If winning wasn't the goal, no score would be kept.

And I know there's not a SINGLE fan here, whether you just signed up or have been here since you were five-years-old thorugh the Oilers era, who would jump ship if we were losing COMPETITIVELY week after week. It's to be expected to lose a game by a TD or a FG. But to lose the way we are losing, it will go down in sports history as one of the most laughable, agonizing, and embarassing seasons of any sports team in any type of sport. Period. And if you're OK with shrugging it off, then you are also a part of the joke that will be told for generations of sports fans to come.

Losing happens, but the excuses concocted here of "why" we should wait until the end of the season to fire Capers and rebuild is just a lack of vision and courage. I want the owner to do everything in his power to win NEXT weekend, not next year. And to tread on egg shells as if we can't possibly tear this thing down in mid-season is a lack of risk taking.

Well, Capers has had four solid years of "free pass" to do exactly what he wants, and he's had a GM that stands in his corner on player drafting, etc., and to think that he deserves the right to stay until the end of the season just on principle alone is absurd. It's a business. Get it done no matter how you have to get it done. Make the phantom tag at second base and sell it like you made it (Adam Everett). Slide sideways into third and take out their third basemen (Jason Lane). Pretend you called time so Larry Walker has to go back to second base instead of advancing to third (Ensberg).

You gotta play like you want to win, and that goes for OWNERSHIP too.

It's as if McNair is keeping Capers out of the goodness of his heart, and the fans are watching their team get embarassed WEEKLY. Not every other week. WEEKLY. See a pattern? I do.

McNair might be playing poker. And, he might not. I hope he is, but even if he is...I gotta admit that I am having second thoughts about the credibility of the ownership. It starts at the top, and he's got to be willing to axe a guy who is a class guy on and off the field.

So tell Biggio that getting to the world series is not what it's all about. He'll look at you like you're nuts.

Herm Edwards to the press: "We PLAY the game to WIN."

McNair: please play the game to win. Pull the trigger. Drop the bomb. Call Ty from ABC Extreme Home Makeover. Do what it takes to win. Cheering is a natural bi-product of winning, or at least the possibility of winning.
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Old 10-20-2005   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oso
In Austin and you call yourself a Texans fan first? Good God, man, are the Longhorns fans not killing you?

(For the record, I'm a UT alumnus and a Longhorns fan; I just know how rabid Austin must be with UT gunning for the National Championship.)
I try to keep my vices separate from one another. I have got a uniform for each day on the weekend.
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Old 10-20-2005   #55
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I will stick by the texans not matter what. I will always cheer for them because I know when I play ball any bit of hope gives me encouragment to do better. When I get booed it just brings me down. Now this is no excuse for our teams playing however I beleive we need to cheer more often. Also Peyton is a big play caller at the line and is good at reading defenses and is audible king. I say we get loud and make it where he cant hear himself - Randy
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Old 10-20-2005   #56
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My family has a saying, "Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me twice, shame on ME" meaning that getting fooled by someone else is OK the first time, and it's the fooler's fault for being dishonest. But to get fooled again by the same person is on your own shoulders because you can't see the pattern developing.


I don't think it's just your family that has that quote. Did you hear President Bush's take on the quote?

"Fool me once, shame on me........Fool me twice, well you're not gonna fool me again.."...lol. Sorry, just trying to lighten up the tense board here.
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Old 10-20-2005   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I try to keep my vices separate from one another. I have got a uniform for each day on the weekend.
I combine my vices. I drink when I watch the Texans.
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Old 10-20-2005   #58
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It takes a pretty different kinda' person to stand up and cheer wildly when the other teams are running their backup RBs out there and gaining 100 yds. with those backups....in addition to their starting RB who was pretty much finished for the day by halftime.

60,000 people standing up and cheering loudly for a team that couldn't compete with their shadows right now is borderline Jim Jones drink-the-kool-aid type of behavior.

Maybe constant booing is not the answer. I agree on that. But constant cheering is not the answer either.

Come on guys...life is a reward-based system for the most-part. You get things by earning them. And the incentive to earn them is monetary, self-edification (people cheering for you), etc.

Giving a team something for nothing is like giving a gambling addict a credit card and "trusting" them to use it wisely.

This SAME team has been cheered through sub-par talent and sub-par seasons since its inception three years ago. The only difference between those three years and this year is that we are WORSE than we were before we had even played our first scrimmage four years ago.

Cheering returns when competitive playing returns. And to tell people to cheer and not boo is like asking someone to smile when you jab a needle into their groin. The idea is a good one, but the results are incongruent.

Oil doesn't mix with water no matter how hard you try. So please, everybody including McNair needs to stop asking people to stop booing. Booing stops when competitive play begins. And competitive play will not begin until this staff is gone. And THAT is on McNair. Not us.
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Old 10-20-2005   #59
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It's as if McNair is keeping Capers out of the goodness of his heart, and the fans are watching their team get embarassed WEEKLY. Not every other week. WEEKLY. See a pattern? I do.
Great post Gpshafer_1976. I feel exactly the same way you do about this situation. I get so tired of people here being upset with disgruntled fans, like we are part of the problem with this team. If you want to cheer for an inferior product, go right ahead. I don’t really think that canning Capers will do anything to save this season. However, I know that keeping him just delays the rebuilding that must begin. If we fire Capers now, we guarantee that he won’t be around next year. I think many fans would be happy just to see this necessary action taken. We cannot possibly suck anymore that we do right now. I think most fans will understand if the team struggles with interim coaches. The fans just there for the whole experience should not care who is coaching the them anyway. In the end, it will also be better for Capers. He is a lame duck coach, who’s fate is already sealed. What can he possibly accomplish in two months that he did not already do in four years? It cannot be any better for the assistant coaches, who have their fate tied with Capers. Give them the chance to do something on their own. At least we can know how good Hoke really is if we allow him to run the defense until the end of year.
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Old 10-20-2005   #60
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I just do not think you can change the head coach unless he was caught doing something that was illegal. The last time I looked losing football games was not a crime in the state of Texas. However, if it will get them votes they may put it in the books.

What future head coach would want to come to an organization that ditches their HC in mid season? Moreover, if we do ditch Capers that gives any prosepctive candidates leverage in negotiating their deal for more dollars and/or more control. A candidate that would have been our top guy may now be to expensive and lesser candidates may priced right which does not bode well for us.

A change is needed, but not at the expense of our future.
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