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Old 10-19-2005   #21
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This is a high value franchise. You don't base the worth of this place on Dom Caper's regime. If Bob wants him bad enough Carroll will come here if he wants to come back to the NFL.
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Old 10-19-2005   #22
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I dont think Carroll would satisfy me. He has done great in college.. but there are alot of coaches that do great in college and suck in the NFL.

I look at his NFL career.. and im not impressed at all.

I havent watched many USC games.. does Carroll have more passion than Capers? would he be a better motivator?
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Old 10-19-2005   #23
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Originally Posted by Vinny
This is a high value franchise. You don't base the worth of this place on Dom Caper's regime. If Bob wants him bad enough Carroll will come here if he wants to come back to the NFL.
What does the value of the franchise have to do with anything?

Given the choice between...

A) Making a few million dollars more to coach a band of losers in Houston and potentially be viewed as failure again.

or

B) Continue coaching the national championhip Trojans in beautiful SoCal garnering universal respect.

Now, if we're talking complete control (GM responsibilities) and/or several more million dollars, I could see the attraction. Otherwise, the coaches that this organization can get at this point are second-tier type guys looking for a long-shot to establish themselves.
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Old 10-19-2005   #24
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Carroll has said in the past that the only way that he would return to the NFL would be if he had complete control over the organization...He's a good coach, but I'm not sure I'd allow him that privilege, but then again, I have trouble with commitment...
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Old 10-19-2005   #25
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Folks almost every head coaching job opportunity in the NFL comes on a fair to bad team. The old coach is out the vast majority of the time because the team is sucking. Oppurtunities like Gruden had in Tampa are rare. There are only 32 opportunities to be an NFL head coach and hundreds of folks who want one.
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Old 10-19-2005   #26
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
What does the value of the franchise have to do with anything?
Everything, and you are assuming we don't restructure the football operations completely. The difference between the Saints employees lifestyle and working conditions don't trump the Texans high line, state of the art working arena and practice facilities. The football people here have every tool they want and don't have to beg some bottom line Bud when they need something for our football team. The time for Carroll to jump is ripe if he wants to jump....it's a long time till the eoy however and I'm sure more names will pop up. That said, I'm not pro or con Pete Carroll.
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Old 10-19-2005   #27
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Originally Posted by Vinny
The difference between the Saints employees lifestyle and working conditions don't trump the Texans high line, state of the art working arena and practice facilities. The football people here have every tool they want and don't have to beg some bottom line Bud when they need something for our football team.
Has this made a difference so far? Why is it that lower value franchises can attract high-profile free agents while Houston has to overpay for scrubs to get them to come here? Nobody wanted to come here before this season so what makes you think they will now that we are the laughing stock of the league?
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Old 10-19-2005   #28
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Too bad Sabin didn't hang around LSU just one more year, he would have had some real appeal and he probably would have been just as interested to enter Head Coaching in the NFL thru Houston as Miami.
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Old 10-19-2005   #29
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
Has this made a difference so far?
Your right....decades of frustration have shown us the light.
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Why is it that lower value franchises can attract high-profile free agents while Houston has to overpay for scrubs to get them to come here?
How about asking something tough? Who wants to play on an expansion team and lose for a few years?

We have enough talent to restructure and push for the playoffs in a two year window now. We have gotten through the expansion build. We are no longer looking for guys to replace street FA's and have a core of players. It's a small core, but we have a core of talent that is far more talented than our original team and the teams that came afterwards.
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Old 10-19-2005   #30
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we have a core of talent that is far more talented than our original team and the teams that came afterwards.
Really? Why was the defense (and possibly the offense) so much better in 2002? If anything, there might be less talent... that's what the stats and record would indicate anyway. But if you're judging players on potential and not production you might have a case.
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Old 10-19-2005   #31
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Really? Why was the defense (and possibly the offense) so much better in 2002? If anything, there might be less talent... that's what the stats and record would indicate anyway. But if you're judging players on potential and not production you might have a case.
No, I'm basing it on dumb things like we have better players than Domingo Graham and Jimmy Herndon. Foolish thoughts like James Allen and Stacey Mack aren't as good as Dom Davis and Vernand Mornency. Peek is better than Charlie Clemons or Keith Mitchell. Jerry Deloach doesn't have to start on a unit with Matt Stevens and Jay Foreman. I base my thoughts on silly things like tangible reality.
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Old 10-19-2005   #32
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...Nobody wanted to come here before this season so what makes you think they will now that we are the laughing stock of the league?
I think if a coach with cachet is brought in, the pursuit of free agents should become more productive. What the Texans need is a good recruiter. Just another skill set Capers doesn't have.
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Old 10-19-2005   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
No, I'm basing it on dumb things like we have better players than Domingo Graham and Jimmy Herndon. Foolish thoughts like James Allen and Stacey Mack aren't as good as Dom Davis and Vernand Mornency. Peek is better than Charlie Clemons or Keith Mitchell. Jerry Deloach doesn't have to start on a unit with Matt Stevens and Jay Foreman. I base my thoughts on silly things like tangible reality.
Graham and Herndon might be an upgrade to this line. Those guys certainly couldn't do any worse.

I'll give you Dom over Allen and Mack, obviously.

And I'll give you Peek over Clemons and Mitchell... but would you take Peek over Foley or even Posey. Is Greenwood that much of an upgrade over Foreman? The stats say... no.

There are really only 2 ways to measure production for professional athletes and their teams and those are stats and records. Based on these, this is by far the most talentless (is that a word?) team to date.
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Old 10-19-2005   #34
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first and foremost i think we need an offensive minded head coach...someone who can get carr and the rest of the offense back on track...and hire a good D-coordinator to either change the defense up or to get it on the right foot...personally i don't care if we change to a 4-3 or stay with the 3-4...i just want to see the defense show up to play...if we need new players then get those players...personally i'd like to see gary kubiak or al saunders be the HC and wade phillips be the D. coordinator
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Old 10-19-2005   #35
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Despite their recent problems, I think the Texans are viewed as a high value franchise. I think most football people realize that the Texans have a great owner willing to spend money on facilities and players. The ownership is lights years ahead of the Saints, Cardinals, and Saints. I think the biggest problem has been the coaching staff. I feel that the players realized just how far away the team was from ever competing for a championship half way through last season. Capers and Casserly sold everyone, including the players, that within 5 years the winning would be established. When players like Sharper and Glenn figured out that this staff did not have the knowledge to compete in the NFL, there was a movement to get out of here. Capers, Fangio, and Palmer lost the respect of the players and thus you have a hard time attracting professionals who want to win. I think Casserly also did a horrible job of evaluating talent. It looks like he was always reaching for potential or reclamation projects. Right now, you have an ultra conservative coach trying to win with execution and fundamentals and a GM who wants to take high risk projects who aren’t necessarily known for having established skills.

Money is always going to be the determining factor in where players go. However, most great players also want the opportunity to win. McNair has to find the a GM and coach committed to winning that share the same philosophy on how the team will be built. I am hoping that will be able to pry someone from New England or Philadelphia because these organizations know how to compete in the modern NFL.
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Old 10-19-2005   #36
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i saw an interview with pete carrol last week. He was asked about coaching in the nfl and he indicated he would want to be in control of personel and get the players he wanted. He stated that while in new england the gm did not provide him with the players for his system and he was forced to try and put square pegs in round holes. He did not say he would not return to the nfl, but did indicate he would want more control than before. I was really impressed with the guy. He was asked if any recruits ask if they will be able to get playing time. He indicated that if a recruit asked that question he would not offer him a scholorship, because he wants players that were confident and had the attitude that they were coming to usc to play football.
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Old 10-19-2005   #37
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"Something there tells me he either didn't want to work for Carroll any longer or wants to be an NFL head coach himself." --htown34s

You had it right with the first guess...

On ESPN radio, a long time ago when Norm Chow made his decision to leave USC, one of the commentators (either Dan Patrick or Mike & Mike....can't remember) said that they had good information that Chow and Carroll had a very strained working relationship and that Chow was just fed up with it.

That California sun makes you look good, but it does weird things to your brain.

Anyway, I wouldn't want him as HC. Him and Bill Callahan (formerly of the Oakland Raiders) are tired of the NFL superstars that they have noe control over. They went back to the college game because as a college HC you can (GASP!) bench players at will as you please...without worrying about inter-office politics. Callahan specifically said he was going back to college where he could scare the heck out of players and get them to obey.

Carrol, IMO, would make a great front office guy, but keep him away from players and onfield action.
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Old 10-19-2005   #38
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How is going to the playoffs in 2 of 4 years and having a losing record in 1 of 4 years getting your butt handed to you?
Yep, he was the head coach of the Patriots, so let look at his record.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...es/CarrPe0.htm


1997 nwe | 10 6 0
1998 nwe | 9 7 0
1999 nwe | 8 8 0

Pete Carroll got his butt handed to him in the NFL because he took a superbowl team – the 1996 Patriots under Bill Parcells – from first to worst. He had a diminishing record each of his full seasons and had a 2-6 record the year he was fired. Your right, he did lead the Patriots to two playoffs in his first two years, but I think that was on the left over momentum from Parcells and not from Pete Carroll ability to coach (See also Berry Switzer of the Dallas Cowboys). Here is the SI article on his firing.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...ts_carroll_ap/

Again, while Pete Carroll would not be the worst choice for head coach of Texans and, while he is probably a better coach now then he was back then, I still say, give a current NFL OC/DC a chance before you hire Pete Carroll.
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Old 10-20-2005   #39
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Too bad Sabin didn't hang around LSU just one more year, he would have had some real appeal and he probably would have been just as interested to enter Head Coaching in the NFL thru Houston as Miami.

Sabin is a great college coach but he will find the going in the NFL very tough!It's different getting a bunch of college kids pumped up with rah-rah than the Pros. You can intimidate college kids, but the Pros will still make their millions to do enough to just get by and not be intimidated. He did great with Mich. St. and LSU but Miami-----nope!
Why did Pete Carroll leave the Pros to begin with? He could rule the college kids ranks but couldn't do it with the Pros. Steve Spurrier proved you could rah-rah college kids, but not the Pros. Same with John McKay.

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Old 10-20-2005   #40
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Has this made a difference so far? Why is it that lower value franchises can attract high-profile free agents while Houston has to overpay for scrubs to get them to come here? Nobody wanted to come here before this season so what makes you think they will now that we are the laughing stock of the league?
It makes me think players talk to each other. It is no different when you pick classes at registration. You ask the students who have had a certain teacher. "Did you like them? Was the homework bad? Did they teach the subject matter?

Well I contend that NFL players do the same thing when shopping for a new team. They ask the players of the teams they are interested in. "Do you like it there?" To me word of mouth is powerful. Apparently the Texans have a bad reputation right now.
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