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Old 10-18-2005   #41
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We definitely need to look O-Line but I'm wondering whether the quality and depth avaialable at LT for the next draft may allow us to consider trading down a few spaces to nab extra picks and still get a solid LT with our first pick. We need extra picks, because we've got needs in a lot of area.
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Old 10-18-2005   #42
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Seems like all are in agreement (to an extent) that O-line is the focus for this draft whether it's first round, first day, or later. Guess it's going to depend on what the drop off is between players... and no projects - unless we really get a coaching staff that CAN mold players and not make pretty pictures in a note pad.

Personally, I think we do have the "trifecta" to an extent, to mirror another Texas team when they first started on their run, it's just a matter of having the line to utilize the three (and a few others) to meet and surpass their proposed potential. However, to utilize their potential, that means playing to their strengths... not trying to cram a phlosophy down their throat that they're not able to adapt to due to previous experience or body mass.

I vote a strong draft with a focus on O-line along with a "front 7" D-line look as needed (depending if we keep the 3-4 or go to to 4-3), then we look at some defensive secondary or just some all around depth (for those needed projects).

*edit*
... and NO TRADING AWAY multiple picks for the "chosen one" this year.
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Old 10-18-2005   #43
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If Carr's option is picked up....

It's a clear sign what we'll spend our pick on: O line.

And that's just fine by me.

You do NOT allow your top o linemen to leave in free agency. Finding a worthy o lineman in free agency is a rare thing...it doesn't happen very often because teams know that o linemen are a precious commodity. You just keep them from getting too fat each offseason, and they return each year and produce the same results year after year after year. The o line position, once solidified, is about as sure-of-a-thing as it gets. Get a bunch of beefy guys together who are all talented and gel together...and then turn them loose. They're not prima donnas and don't need their ego's stroked.

I agree with Double Barrel, and I agree with the other poster who said that IF we don't grab the highest rated o line, or if we don't concentrate on o line in this year's draft...my head will explode.

If this season is worth anything, it's going to once-and-for-all show that the pieced together jig-saw puzzle o line was not a good idea, and it won't work...EVER.

Please, for the love of Pete: Take the HIGHEST-rated o lineman on the board. No trading down. No trading to get that sleeper defensive end. Just grab the biggest, beefiest, fastest-footed and best techniqued o lineman that's available. Please Uncle Charley, no magic tricks this year. Save it for 2007.

GET THE BIG BLOB HIGHEST ON THE BOARD, WHOEVER HE MIGHT BE.
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Old 10-18-2005   #44
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Originally Posted by Gunbuny
Bush could end up being a Marshall Faulk type. Give Domanick Davis a monster line though and you'll never miss Bush. It's all about the line.

Bring on a LT


Are ya nutz? Davis gets 1,000 yd season inspite of our O-line. Think if he had the luxury of a good one? The guy could put up Barry Sanders-like numbers!!!! Carr Could possibly be wiping his A** with manning if he had a line that protected him and an offense that allowed him to think for himself (audibles people) Unlike Manning, Carr is not a sitting duck in the pocket. Manning gives up weak sacks because my one-legged grandmother is more mobile. The 1st 3 rds of the draft should be devoted to Offensive linemen NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! :brickwall Our scouts should not look at anything but O-Linemen
We agree that they need to be looking at offensive linemen. I think you're a little overly optimistic about Domanick Davis "potential". I think that if you give Davis a truly great line to run behind then you're looking at a guy who's going to get you max 1500 or so yards per season. I like Domanick Davis and with a line like that he's all you really need back there. He's going to run hard for you but he is what he is.

Domanick Davis couldn't put up Barry Sanders-like numbers of you wrote them on a piece of paper for him, provided the refrigerator, and handed him the magnets to hang it with. He's good but he's not "unreal good" like Sanders was.
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Old 10-19-2005   #45
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Ok I agree I did get a bit carried away withthe Barry Sanders comparison. The point I was after is that I live in Phoenix and I have seen for years how a bad O-Line can ruin a good RB or QB. The Cardinals have consistently had the worse O-Line in the NFL Look at all the RB's they have gone thru: Garrison Hearst (did nothing in AZ, goes to SF has a very productive year), Thomas Jones (He is not doing that bad in Chicago but look at the years he wasted in AZ) We have an O-Line that is at least as bad if not worse, thanks to Casserly's ineptitude and DD STILL gets 1000 yd rushing a season. Cardinals have not had that luxury since they moved to AZ. Obviously DD has a good deal of talent and barring severe or major injuries, could finish up his career with somewhere near 10k yards with the help of a good O-Line. Hell, Brett Favre looks like crap now that he has a bad O-Line. My point is this: with the talent we have at the skill postions, it is sick and wrong that Casserly has not gone all out to get a Line for his Franchise QB or the treasure he found in the 4th rd(DD). This is why I am all for running this moron out of town (take Capers with you) and finding a GM who will at least protect his big investment in a QB. Four years of patchword and fitting square pegs in round holes has only gotten us a QB who has spent more time on his back than any Nevada Brothel's Employee of The Month. Sorry but it just makes my blood boil.
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Old 10-19-2005   #46
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I'll give you that of course. We'd all like to see what Davis is capable of running behind a tail kicking monster offensive line.

If for no other reason than that it would mean that we actually have a tail kicking monster offensive line.
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Old 10-19-2005   #47
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Though Bush is very enticing and first impulse says to take the best LT avaliable, I still say that we should trade down for extra high round picks.

Though an LT is the top priority, we need talent all over the place:

Playmaking ILB - this to me is the most critical position on defense (we passed up a gem with DJ)draft an ahmad brooks type

Playmaking OLB - may not be a need if we lose Fangio's system

2 - 3 solid OL (C and G) - get 2 through free agency

Solid #2 WR - free agency

Playmaking strong safety - draft

CB - draft later for potential

Last edited by AlexVanderpool; 10-19-2005 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 10-19-2005   #48
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Again guys, we are missing the point. I can't think of anyone that this team has "developed" into a quality starter except Dunta and AJ and we can't seem to get AJ the ball so it doesn't matter how good he is. My concern is that we take a top LT in the draft but we can't teach him the basic fundamentals. It's apparent that our coaches can't teach the basics because that's there excuse every week. "We didn't execute"..means we don't know what we are doing out there! I think I'm getting an anurism!!!
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Old 10-19-2005   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cjeremy635
Again guys, we are missing the point. I can't think of anyone that this team has "developed" into a quality starter except Dunta and AJ and we can't seem to get AJ the ball so it doesn't matter how good he is. My concern is that we take a top LT in the draft but we can't teach him the basic fundamentals. It's apparent that our coaches can't teach the basics because that's there excuse every week. "We didn't execute"..means we don't know what we are doing out there! I think I'm getting an anurism!!!
I think Gaffney, Norris and Dom Davis are quality starters (that we developed)...other than that, I think the list is full.
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Old 10-19-2005   #50
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My concern is that we take a top LT in the draft but we can't teach him the basic fundamentals.
Don't worry, my friend. Our new coaching staff (coming soon: January 2006) will be able to handle the duties required of them, above and beyond the call of duty.

Offensive lines take the longest to develop, and then everything else can fall in behind that (including defensive priorities). Once we have a solid OL that can consistently run a scoring offense, I feel confident that a decent defense can be established within 1-2 years.
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Old 10-19-2005   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cjeremy635
Again guys, we are missing the point. I can't think of anyone that this team has "developed" into a quality starter except Dunta and AJ and we can't seem to get AJ the ball so it doesn't matter how good he is. My concern is that we take a top LT in the draft but we can't teach him the basic fundamentals. It's apparent that our coaches can't teach the basics because that's there excuse every week. "We didn't execute"..means we don't know what we are doing out there! I think I'm getting an anurism!!!
Have you been watching the same games as I have?
This is not pop-warner ball. Until Carr can throw the ball down field and "complete" it, we will NEVER develop.
Let the "New" head coach decide what his needs are. A new QB or RB would be a start. Then maybe develop the O-Line. I think we have talent there but they are not being coached correctly.
High quality line men will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We cannot pass on a chance to get an all-pro type QB or RB with our picks this year..
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Old 10-19-2005   #52
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Originally Posted by HomeBred_Texan
Have you been watching the same games as I have?
This is not pop-warner ball. Until Carr can throw the ball down field and "complete" it, we will NEVER develop.
Let the "New" head coach decide what his needs are. A new QB or RB would be a start. Then maybe develop the O-Line. I think we have talent there but they are not being coached correctly.
High quality line men will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We cannot pass on a chance to get an all-pro type QB or RB with our picks this year..
A new RB & QB? I don't think that's the problem....kinda like putting the buggy before the horse. Isn't that mentality the same reason we are in the current situation? Why ruin another QB or allow him to not reach his full potential (not saying Carr is ruined yet)..doesn't make any sense.
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Old 10-19-2005   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeBred_Texan
Have you been watching the same games as I have?
This is not pop-warner ball. Until Carr can throw the ball down field and "complete" it, we will NEVER develop.
Let the "New" head coach decide what his needs are. A new QB or RB would be a start. Then maybe develop the O-Line. I think we have talent there but they are not being coached correctly.
High quality line men will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We cannot pass on a chance to get an all-pro type QB or RB with our picks this year..

Maybe a few linemen are decent...and I say "maybe decent" with a huge lump in my throat. Better coaching will definately help but those guys have to stop being pushed around by the D line. Blocking assignments are from the coaches, getting manhandled is just embarassing for the coaches and the O line.
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Old 10-19-2005   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cjeremy635
A new RB & QB? I don't think that's the problem....kinda like putting the buggy before the horse. Isn't that mentality the same reason we are in the current situation? Why ruin another QB or allow him to not reach his full potential (not saying Carr is ruined yet)..doesn't make any sense.
What do you mean it makes no sense? We are going to have to get a new head coach and staff. We will officially be a "rebuilding" team. So you have to start with the basics. A QB and RB. We can always sit out the new QB for a year while we get our line togeather. I am not 100% sure that the O/L problems are the players fault. Players are only as good as there coach. And I don't think they have been properly coached is all. That is a talented O/L that is not producing.
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Old 10-19-2005   #55
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Originally Posted by HomeBred_Texan
What do you mean it makes no sense? We are going to have to get a new head coach and staff. We will officially be a "rebuilding" team. So you have to start with the basics. A QB and RB. We can always sit out the new QB for a year while we get our line togeather. I am not 100% sure that the O/L problems are the players fault. Players are only as good as there coach. And I don't think they have been properly coached is all. That is a talented O/L that is not producing.

Well good sir, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Good day to you.
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Old 10-19-2005   #56
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Every time you get a new quarterback, you start all over. You have to dumb down the offense, and it's hard to win games with dumb offenses. Take a look at the Cowboys, and learn. 8 years, they've been starting over almost every year, because of new QBs, or new Coaches. McNair has to decide if he'd made a mistake with his coach or not.
Facts: you've got a team who in it's fourth year looks like it doesn't understand how to play football.

That tells me the coach hasn't been doing his job. If I were McNair, Dom's got to go. Unless he can come up with a good excuse, which I don't think he has one, he'll be looking for another job. That is providing I've got the inside tack on a soon to be available suitable replacement(Shanahan, or the like).

Can't run, Can't pass, and Defense sucks. The only thing that can fix all those, is the Offensive line. Make some holes for the running game, buy some time for the recievers, keep the QB on his feet, and allow the defense to rest.

But there is no way I'm taking an Offensive lineman with a top ten pick(chances are pretty good we'll be in the top 5). We can trade that pick for experienced players. Trade your number one and a Tony Banks(or any other solid #2 defensive player) for a couple of O-line Starters. LT, and Gaurd. With Reggie Bush, Leinart, and possibly Vince Young on the table, that high pick will be worth it.

How can we pass up on such talent?? Peyton Manning, Edgerin James, and Marvin Harrison would'nt be the players they are today, if Indy Started building with them. They had their line, then they built their offense, then they got their coach, then their defense.

Look at what Gruden did in Oakland....Offensive line, Quarterback(an old one), RB, Defense.
In Tampa, he inherited a defense, had the O-Line, added a little offensive talent.
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