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Old 10-17-2005   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I'm not in the blame everyone but Carr crowd since I don't think he is all that good...so there's your answer. The offense is horrible for a number of reasons...and Carr is just not that special in my eyes....we will just have to dissagree on that. Carr is good enough to manage the team...but hes a poor mans Jake Plummer.
I think Carr is a heck of a lot better than you think Vinny. I think you are seeing the results of an inept coaching staff. But you don't and that's where we differ. Our defense is horrid and so is our offense. Our coaching on both sides of the ball is beyond belief and you have called it a FEMA staff. I will agree with that assessment, so lets get rid of the FEMA staff and see what happens. I quite frankly think you will be astonished by the transformation.
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Old 10-17-2005   #42
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Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
Who's fault is it that he isn't an all-pro...his, or the Texans? That's what I thought...it all comes back to them.

Vinny,

I have always had a problem with top draftees receiving millions of dollars without stepping out on the field to prove their worth!

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Old 10-17-2005   #43
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I think Carr is a heck of a lot better than you think Vinny.
I'm stunned. I never could put a finger on where you stood. I gotcha now though.

The FEMA Texans fits for me. It's about overofficious management that can't get out of its own way. The FEMA blast is just a way to say I think the Texans are a bloated management system that spends so much time on micromanaging little things that it doesn't do anything with any common sense and misses the simplicity of the big picture. They have made a system that is so micromanaged that nobody can think for themselves. It started with the first draft ever. Julius Peppers was the best player on the board but he didn't fit our system so we just had to mix PR in with football decisions and draft the "face of the franchise" and reach for a QB. 'System over talent' and 'form over function' gets us the "face of the Franchise" (PR) instead of building a system around the most talented players on the board. Hindsight is 20/20, but when you are a fan with a miserable team that's all you got. Watching this mess sure isn't fun. Nobody thinks for themselves at FEMA. You follow your micromanaged plan.
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Old 10-17-2005   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
The clean up crew does a better job at what they do than the front office does at theirs. Carr has done everything he could with the krap that management has supplied him with. I'm not apologizing for Carr, because he has screwed up during the course of his career. But shouldn't he expect a little compensation for the horrific job of others.

OK, personally I think that ALL pro athletes are grossly overpaid. Carr is lucky to be where he is and he should be grateful for being the starting QB. His compensation is that he still has a job!!! I just hate discussing pro athletes pay when I'm in the military dodging bullets, looking suspeciously at anything on the ground or people wondering if it will blow me up in another country and getting paid less then a manager at fast food restraunt!!!!!!
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Old 10-17-2005   #45
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Peppers basically plays a tweener position now. I remember arguing relentlessly that both Peppers and players like Ware and Kearse would make great OLB's in a 3-4. They just have great athleticism. But I do remember not picking one over the other, I would have felt great either way with Carr or Peppers. I was a little suprised with Capers' group not picking Peppers first, because he was a defensive guy. But on the flip side you'd have to pay Peppers #1 money, and you typically don't pay OLB that kind of money in the 3-4. QB's usually make the bigger contracts.
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Old 10-17-2005   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I think Carr is a heck of a lot better than you think Vinny. I think you are seeing the results of an inept coaching staff. But you don't and that's where we differ. Our defense is horrid and so is our offense. Our coaching on both sides of the ball is beyond belief and you have called it a FEMA staff. I will agree with that assessment, so lets get rid of the FEMA staff and see what happens. I quite frankly think you will be astonished by the transformation.
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Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
You want Carr to prove his worth, give him a bloody chance. Carr is playing a 1 on 11 game every time he steps onto the field.
Do either of you think Carr does anything wrong/has anything he needs to improve upon?

This Carr vs. the OL debate gets sooooo old. As far as I am concerned anyone who wants to place all the blame at either end just isn't getting it.
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Old 10-17-2005   #47
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Thanks big!! I didn't get to see any interviews as I'm not in Houston so I don't get much info about interviews and such.
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Old 10-17-2005   #48
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I think Carr has a great deal he can improve on and does quite a bit wrong. I don't believe he's been given proper coaching or a fair chance to improve appropriately.

Oh, and though I usually disagree with Vinny (about Carr) in most respects, I take a different path of reasoning than he does on the money issue and end up in the same place. $8 million for what he's done to date is excessive. I really hope they renegotiate and keep him around, if they fix the line and hire a good coaching staff. Carr will get a chance elsewhere and he'll show us what he should have been, otherwise.
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Old 10-17-2005   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
I hold Carr responsible every time he screws up. I always have. I hold the o-line responsible, the coaching staff, management. All of them. And I'm not holding just one to blame. But I do blame Carr's problems on the line, because guess what, they are the ones who cause it.
So all Carr's problems are the line? I can understand some, maybe even most, but what I was asking for the ones that are not. Behind the Seahawks, Indy or Pittsburgh OL's is he perfect? I think not.
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Old 10-17-2005   #50
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Hasselback wasn't perfect behind his and he has a an awesome line. Carr is not perfect either, but maybe responsible for the play no coming together. He's responsible for his incomplete passes and decisions, not the breakdown of the plays.
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Old 10-17-2005   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I'm stunned. I never could put a finger on where you stood. I gotcha now though.

The FEMA Texans fits for me. It's about overofficious management that can't get out of its own way. The FEMA blast is just a way to say I think the Texans are a bloated management system that spends so much time on micromanaging little things that it doesn't do anything with any common sense and misses the simplicity of the big picture. They have made a system that is so micromanaged that nobody can think for themselves. It started with the first draft ever. Julius Peppers was the best player on the board but he didn't fit our system so we just had to mix PR in with football decisions and draft the "face of the franchise" and reach for a QB. 'System over talent' and 'form over function' gets us the "face of the Franchise" (PR) instead of building a system around the most talented players on the board. Hindsight is 20/20, but when you are a fan with a miserable team that's all you got. Watching this mess sure isn't fun. Nobody thinks for themselves at FEMA. You follow your micromanaged plan.
You make my point well, Vinny. My point is until you get rid of this staff there is no way to really evauate the players themselves. I believe they are all a product of this very inept system. As such you really can't tell whether Carr is doing what he shouldn't or he's doing what they told him to do despite what he might think. Other players are not performing and that translates as trouble for the QB. Same goes for the defense. My belief is that this staff is so inept you can't evaluate anybody playing on the field. Even DROB might be looking better than we think simply because who he's covering. And you are right when you say this is a FEMA like organization where noone thinks for himself - or I might add - can think for himself. Get competent coaching and and and O-line then if Carr fails I will agree with you. I think you wanted a different style of football with a different emphasis and you are just as bias as I am.........................
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Old 10-17-2005   #52
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FYI--Capers just said 8 of Carr's incompletions yesterday were throwaways due to pressure. That accounts for 8 of 14 incompletions.

Ibar--thanks for not responding again. The sound of the silence is deafening.
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Old 10-17-2005   #53
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Casserly's been trying to pull the wool over our eyes from day one. He'll blame everything on everyone but who it belongs to, him. David Carr is a great quarterback with a lot of skills and potential. Get the guy a line that can block and it's on. Until then, we'll never know his true potential. Either way we can continue to expect garbage decisions from Casserly on players who will do us no good at all.
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Old 10-17-2005   #54
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Ibar--thanks for not responding again. The sound of the silence is deafening.
Those guys have a lot to say except when you ask them to break down the player or the game....hard to comment on things you don't see much of.
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Old 10-17-2005   #55
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Whoever runs this team next season needs to evaluate this situation starting now . If they deem Carr is not damaged beyond repair then pay him . But you have to have an OL with some talent .

Walter Jones and Hutchinson I believe were both # 1 picks for the Seahawks . I've read that OT was one of the easiest positions to judge .

Whatevers wrong with the players has now reached epidemic proportions . They have Quit .
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Old 10-17-2005   #56
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Originally Posted by aliaspgk
I was in my car listening to 610 at 7 this morning and David Carr came on for a suprise interview after he had just finished his early morning workout. I was extremely please/somewhat suprised to actually hear some real insight from him instead of the usual "we are disapointed" or "my guys are still fightin their tails off" type cliche quotes. He came out and said that they have been forced to run max protection every play and while they are doing this they basically eliminate the majority of what they can do on offense. He talked about how he only has 2 recievers going anywhere down the field, one running a fade or out towards the sidelines and one over the center of the field and with max protection on they either have to be open, which is not likely, or he looks for dominick for a dump or has to eat the ball. He said (roughly) that he is unable to try and get the ball down the field because they cant run anything that is not max protection or he will go down.

While I was watching last night and listening to him this morning I am sure that David Carr is the absoulte last of our problems. If he is given time and a reciever is even remotely open he fires a strike. People will come on this board and try to say fancy things like "he doesnt go through his progressions" or "he cant read the defense" but he does all he can with the horrid system we have set up around him. I saw actually somewhat relax in the pocket and actually go through his progressions and reads (all 3 of them) for the first time and he was blindsided by Grant Wistrom from behind. People will say he held onto the ball to long but do you watch the best quarterbacks in the league? They have time to look for the their 2nd and 3rd options without being leveled. If Manning lined up behind our line and dropped back he would blindsided in the exact same way...watch the Colts play and see if Manning has to "get the ball out in 2.3 seconds" the way Carr is forced to.

I was just dumbfounded by the fact that for the last two years we havent addressed personal and instead all we read about from the team is how we are going to work on short timing routes to get the ball out of Davids hands as quickly as possible. Thats just poor overall vision from our management and coaches-you dont address the fact that you have a terrible but instead try to devise an offensive scheme where you continually have to drop back and get the ball off to a reciever or rb only 5 yards away very quickly so you dont get sacked. I mean I thought it was embarassing that all offseason that I kept reading that we were blowing horns off in practice to tell David to get rid of the ball----BLOCK FOR HIM AND LET HIM MAKE A PLAY. When he has time he has as much ability as anyone, he throws hard and crisp over the middle of the field and the throws that he sails are because he would rather not throw an interception towards a reciever who isnt even close to open. If you watched Bradfords fades towards the sidelines...my god he cant get open. He can sometimes steam roll down the field but he cant shake anyone in an intermediate route.

From the interview and his play I hope Carr keeps his head up...because he is getting nothing work with. Period.
I've been saying the same thing for 2 years. Glad someone else agrees. Incidently, so did Joe Theismann on ESPN.
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Old 10-17-2005   #57
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Yeah, I listened to that interview as well and I caught another interesting point. Did you hear his response when he was asked about changiing the play at the line of scrimmage? He said he's allwed to change from a running play to a running play. Go figure...I swear that's what he said. He said he can change the side the play is designed to run to and that's basically all he can do. You could definately hear the frustration in his voice. For once I would just like to hear what these players have to say with the gloves off.
We probably won't ever get to hear that response.
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Old 10-17-2005   #58
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Originally Posted by SESupergenius
I feel bad for Carr. A few people around here and have been trying to dog Carr and it is unwarranted. Sure the guy isn't going to throw 100%, 90% 80 or even 70% of his passes, most QB's in this league don't. But to when you are playing teams that are pinning their ears back and getting the QB, he has no options. Our offensive scheme is sickening. It painfully obvious why we can't beat teams that play cover 2, we max protect and only have 2 recievers out, and DD to check down to. Everyone in the world can see that our line is the problem, some people just aren't getting it.
Ditto that.
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Old 10-17-2005   #59
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Originally Posted by Texans Pride
I have a question and I am asking it seriously:

Is there a rule that the players can not speak out against the coaching staff or the team?

It seems there are a lot of players that get interviewed and they "hold back" what they really want to say. or what should be said.

Is there a reason for this as far as backlash or repercussion?
I'm sure it's more of an unwritten rule than anything else. Of course, if they did open up, they'd probably be on the trading block for being a dissenter. Someone does need to open up though, and maybe get management's attention. I'd hate to see the coaching staff changed now, however, it would give them a chance to organize a search for a new head coach and not have to do it in a rush. I say Do It Now.
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Old 10-17-2005   #60
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He came out and said that they have been forced to run max protection every play and while they are doing this they basically eliminate the majority of what they can do on offense. He talked about how he only has 2 recievers going anywhere down the field, one running a fade or out towards the sidelines and one over the center of the field and with max protection on they either have to be open, which is not likely, or he looks for dominick for a dump or has to eat the ball. He said (roughly) that he is unable to try and get the ball down the field because they cant run anything that is not max protection or he will go down.
You may think this is thoughtful and forthright, but to me it sounds like yet another excuse in a list of exceuses as long as your arm. Carr is very much a part of the problem. Maybe he is hamstrung by the coaching staff (I don't doubt this) but good, successful, smart, quick QBs get around all the restraints and get their teams going. Carr didn't look rotten Sunday, but he has looked bad a lot so far. He needs to go when the coaches and GM go. We need a fresh start here. I feel sorry for him that he got drafted here and had to play under these conditions (Capers & Co) up till now. Maybe he can still have a career elsewhere if we let him go. We certainly can't pay him the money due in his contract when he has done no better than any journeyman QB would have done.
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