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Old 10-14-2005   #1
gtexan02
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Default Len Pasquerreli on David Carr

ESPN did an article on the Texans and Carr. Unfortunately, I don't have insider, but if anyone does, please feel free to summarize it! From what i understand, Carr's performance has given the opportunity to waive him at the end of the season. I say restructure his contract so that it is full of incentives and keep him on. For example:

Salary of 3M for 3 years. Will receive a signing bonus of 5M IF QB rating is higher than 80, OR Texans win at least 8 games, OR Carr throws 20 TDs OR the Offense Line gives up more than 60 sacks.

Article address: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/colum...P%3dILC-INHEAD
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Old 10-14-2005   #2
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OR the Offense Line gives up more than 60 sacks.
CHA CHING!
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Old 10-14-2005   #3
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The article states that the Texans have 2 options if they want to extend Carr's contract. Option 1 is to give Carr a $5.5 million bonus with salaries of $5 million in '06 & $5.25 million in '07. The 2nd option would give Carr an $8 million bonus with salaries of $5.25 million in '06 & '07, plus $6 million in '08. Pasquarelli reports that "Texans officials" (whoever they are) are leaning to option 1, extending Carr for 2 seasons.

The reality is that this is Bob McNair's call and I doubt that he's sending ESPN any "insider" info. We'll know the answer before the season is over.
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Old 10-14-2005   #4
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Carr needs to get all the money he can when he is playing behind this poor excuse for a line. His performance hinders on these guys, not the other way around. Another miscue by any one of these guys and down goes Carr, end of season, or end of career. If I was Carr I'd be taking everthing I could. I think the management knows that. Pendry said everyone will be held accountable. well it's obvious that tha oline is the problem and he's making adjustments accordingly.
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Old 10-14-2005   #5
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Why on earth would they keep Carr after his performance over the last 4 years. He hasn't always been awful, but he's been bad enough enough of the time, and even with a lousy line if he were something special as a QB he would've figured a way around it, or forced management, or something. Try to imagine whoever you think are the really good QBs in the league beset by Carr's problems, and try to imagine how they would handle it--Favre, for example. McNair is another one I think could produce under these circumstances. There are others.

Let's not make a mistake, by now Carr is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
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Old 10-14-2005   #6
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Cool, so what do you think we need to give up to get Favre or McNair? I agree, both are better than Carr, but how do we get them or their equivalent here?
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Old 10-14-2005   #7
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Try to imagine whoever you think are the really good QBs in the league beset by Carr's problems, and try to imagine how they would handle it--Favre, for example. McNair is another one I think could produce under these circumstances. There are others.
Do you honestly think McNair or Favre would survive behind this offensive line? I mean they are two of the toughest around, but they ain't spring chickens no more. I doubt either of them would leave by choice anyway, it would be weird to see McNair and Favre retire with anyone but the titans or Packers...We don't need to go out and sign old QB's, we need to go out and find young offensive lineman, whether it be through free agency, trade, or draft.
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Old 10-14-2005   #8
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Originally Posted by Nighthawk
Try to imagine whoever you think are the really good QBs in the league beset by Carr's problems, and try to imagine how they would handle it--Favre, for example. McNair is another one...
Farve & McNair are great QBs, no doubt. But I'd have to imagine them being beset by Carr's problems, because they've never had them. I'm not sure if any QB ever has...and survived.

Farve has been sacked a total of 65 times since Carr broke into the league in '02. Carr may have that number beat this season alone...before Thanksgiving. McNair has taken a lot of punishment in his career, but it has mainly been due to Steve's willingness to run upfield like a fullback. McNair's never seen the pass rush that Carr has.

Let's say the Texans get rid of Carr, what then? Does anyone honestly believe the Texans could sign a decent QB to play under the current situation? Please. Farve & McNair would retire before playing here, that's for sure. So you're talking about going with Banks (signed for '06), Ragone (a RFA in '06), or a rookie. This would be better? Be careful what you ask for.
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Old 10-14-2005   #9
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.... and even with a lousy line if he were something special as a QB he would've figured a way around it.... -- Nighthawk
Sorry, I am just going to have to disagree with you there. I can't think of a single QB that would have done much better between 2002 and the midpoint of 2004. He has regressed since the midpoint of last season, I think that's evident. Whether you believe excuses are being made for him or not, being sacked that many times has an effect on any QB.

As I have stated elsewhere on this board, I don't advocate paying Carr the $8 million option, but I also don't hold him primarily responsible for his current situation. I also maintain that if he gets a shot somewhere with a decent line and a coaching staff that can get his head on straight, all you Carr haters will be debating what sauce goes best with crow. OUR offensive line and OUR coaches were supposed to be the ones to do that when he was coming out of college with all the confidence in the world. Instead, they put him behind a terrible line, promised him more protection next year, rinsed and repeated. I think he's caught on to their lies.
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Old 10-15-2005   #10
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
As I have stated elsewhere on this board, I don't advocate paying Carr the $8 million option, but I also don't hold him primarily responsible for his current situation. I also maintain that if he gets a shot somewhere with a decent line and a coaching staff that can get his head on straight, all you Carr haters will be debating what sauce goes best with crow..
I dunno....its really a tough call that only McNair will be able to make. As much as I like DC and would miss him if he left, I'd almost prefer that he do
go else where and get a fresh start, preferably with a contender so that
he could have a real chance to succeed. Not sure what we could expect in the exchange, atleast their #1 ?
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Old 10-15-2005   #11
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I'm a Carr guy, I really really REALLY want him to succeed here.

But I think at some point he has to sit so we can see Banks in the offense. If Banks doesn't get sacked and moves the ball then we've got a problem, if his results are the same then we shouldn't give up on Carr.
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Old 10-15-2005   #12
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Ummmmm try Ragone.

I dont want to see Banks doing anything but keeping the bench warm. We've seen him run an offense....NOT PRETTY. Not to mention he is very turnover prone. We have no issues b/c banks just aint it.

I'm all for seeing if Ragone can do something though. That being said he wont do much with that oline of ours.
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Old 10-15-2005   #13
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Ummmmm try Ragone.

I dont want to see Banks doing anything but keeping the bench warm. We've seen him run an offense....NOT PRETTY. Not to mention he is very turnover prone. We have no issues b/c banks just aint it.
Banks had a QB rating of 84 while Carr had a rating of 69 the year Carr went down and Banks had significant snaps. Same line, same coaches. Banks outplayed him with the same cast of players. Banks had a higher TD% and better INT% along with a higher QB rating. Banks made more plays on less snaps. Carr has always had the job handed to him on spec...not on results. Just more reason to fire everyone and start over.

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating
David Carr 295 167 2013 56.6 6.8 9 3.1 13 4.4 78 15/90 69.5
Tony Banks 102 61 693 59.8 6.8 5 4.9 3 2.9 46 13/57 84.3
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Old 10-15-2005   #14
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I agree with everything you said Vinny.....however. I'm looking for a LONG-TERM solution. Banks just is not that. If Ragone can put up banks like numbers then I say we ditch the carr and start eating italian.
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Old 10-15-2005   #15
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Archie Manning played on some horrible teams yet he was offensive MVP one year . Brett Favre did not always play on a team with great talent . When Shannon Sharpe retired folks were saying thats the end of Favre ... but he had an even better year . If you played fantasy football Brett was a gold mine . Elway carried an average team to the Super Bowl . What did Randall Cunningham have ?

If I had a daughter I'd want her to marry a guy like Carr . As a QB I think he is not on the Gold list . He probably is at best on the silver but more likely a bronze ... sorry .
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Old 10-15-2005   #16
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Originally Posted by Vinny
Banks had a QB rating of 84 while Carr had a rating of 69 the year Carr went down and Banks had significant snaps. Same line, same coaches. Banks outplayed him with the same cast of players. Banks had a higher TD% and better INT% along with a higher QB rating. Banks made more plays on less snaps. Carr has always had the job handed to him on spec...not on results. Just more reason to fire everyone and start over.

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating
David Carr 295 167 2013 56.6 6.8 9 3.1 13 4.4 78 15/90 69.5
Tony Banks 102 61 693 59.8 6.8 5 4.9 3 2.9 46 13/57 84.3

to be fair it was Carr's second year. he also played hurt quite a bit that year. also look at the sacks, bank's got sacked almost the same amount of times in 1/3 of the attempts. you really think he would last long. actually he didnt last long. ragone replaced him after a couple of games. i heard mcclain say on 610 that anyone with any real knowledge of qb's in the nfl said that carr would be fine with any talent around him. take away the droped td and the penalty on a td last week and carr has 3 td's. thats pretty impressive considering the pressure he was under in that game.
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Old 10-15-2005   #17
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Anyone who thinks David Carr cannot win in this league is fooling themselves. And if anyone thinks Manning, Brady MUCH LESS Matt Lienhart could win behind this pass protection is just not football intelligent.
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Old 10-16-2005   #18
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As much as I would like to see Carr leave and Leinart get drafted by us....

I cannot see Leinart doing any better. He's already gimpy, and I think we saw against Notre Dame that he is just as human as anybody when he has to face some REAL competition. By the way, Reggie Bush pushed him into the end zone which was supposed to be a penalty for assisting another player by pushing him, right? Talk about getting hosed. I ain't got nothing against USC...but ND got hosed. And it altered this year's rankings BIG time.

Sorry for the rabbit trail.

Back to the topic

Carr is tanking, and the fans who say he's not are hanging onto the last thread of anything they can place their hopes in. After all, if it IS the o line...then it isn't embrassing for us fans to go get some more no-names. But if it is CARR...well, that's another story. It's embarassing to think we all believed in a guy hwo is nice and great off the field, but couldn't get it done on the field. The thing that has me puzzled is this: We've got one set of posters who are angered at Carr's performance, his comments, and his overall attitude. We don't WANT the guy to fail, but we realize it's all on him if he fails OR succeeds, so he better get started succeeding. And there's another group of posters who, I think in their heart of hearts also believe that Carr is tanking and needs to right the ship on his own, but they won't say it publicly and they defend and defend and defend and defend at all costs. Both of us believe in carr, but one group knows he's also repsonsibe for the team's play and another group can't bring themselves to think it or say it. But all that matters in the end is whether Car wants to get his hand out of the sand and forget about the blitzes, etc., and just FIND a way to win. I think the o line is looking for that kind of outlook form David, and it's not happening thus far. Yes, he makes the occasional big play on his own...but he's more or less got to do it on every play that is potentially busted. It's almost like he does it when he feels he needs to, and then the rest of the time he's not even for one second thinking about taking the team onto his shoulders--Whether he's doing it out of spite because he's angry about the poor blocking or a WR's wrong route running, or whatever, I think he's intentionally taking plays off whenever he feels like it.

It's almost like Carr is one of our relatives and we all want to see him succeed because he's such a great guy, etc., and the family name is riding on his performance and future with this team.

He hasn't had to compete for his job EVER, and I think he is still not at a level of personal maturity that you need to be at as an NFL QB. It's a hard load to carry, and it's why only a few QBs ever succeed.

Hope he succeeds, but o line or not...it's up to him.

Last edited by GP; 10-16-2005 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 10-16-2005   #19
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As much as I would like to see Carr leave and Leinart get drafted by us....

I cannot see Leinart doing any better. He's already gimpy, and I think we saw against Notre Dame that he is just as human as anybody when he has to face some REAL competition. By the way, Reggie Bush pushed him into the end zone which was supposed to be a penalty for assisting another player by pushing him, right? Talk about getting hosed. I ain't got nothing against USC...but ND got hosed. And it altered this year's rankings BIG time.

Sorry for the rabbit trail.

Back to the topic

Carr is tanking, and the fans who say he's not are hanging onto the last hread of anything they can place their hopes in. After all, if it IS the o line...then it isn't embrassing for us fans to go get some more no-names. But if it is CARR...well, that's another story. It's embarassing to think we all believed in a guy is nice and great off the field, but couldn't get it done.

It's almost like Carr is one of our relatives and we all want to see him succeed because he's such a great guy, etc., and the family name is riding on his performance and future with this team.

He hasn't had to compete for his job EVER, and I think he is still not a level of personal maturity that you need to be at as an NFL QB. It's a hard load to carry, and it's why only a few QBs ever succeed.

Hope he succeeds, but o line or not...it's up to him.
Until you have been pounded and taken as many shots as Carr has I think it is unfair to judge him by his play at the present time. I don't care how hard nose you are when you are constantly running for your life and constantly being blindsided you begin to see things that just aren't there. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't had a couple of concussions and we simply haven't heard about it. He has played through injuries and tried as much as anyone. In the last game at once point he did take the game over for us and did some running to lead to a score. If you watch he's actually one of the more effective runners on this ball club and he has to because of the blocking break downs and receivers not coming back to the ball. I'm sorry, but until you get a coaching staff in here that can teach all aspects of the game I tend to be just as closed minded about Carr. If he has the blocking and the runners and receivers are doing what they are suppose to be doing, then its fair game. Until then I will disagree with you. I simply point to Oakland and Rich Gannon. He was having a heck of a year and was untouchable. The opposition found out how to get to him and he was never the same after that. A QB depends on protection and the lack of pressure as well as sacks. Remember, defensively the other team is trying to pressure the QB 1st and get the sack if possible. PRESSURE is your 1ST OBJECTIVE, not the sack. Carr is almost always being pressured.
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Old 10-16-2005   #20
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Improve the O-line, and give Carr a chance. The line has been an issue from season 1. I hope they don't look to sign plays that have pretty much been damaged only to sit on the sidelines for 2 seasons while getting paid - Boselli.

I like that we have a rushing QB like Carr. He's got a great arm, we've seen that. And yeah he's messed up too, but what good QBs out there haven't? Favre, McNair, Brady, Roethlisberger, etc. would be dogged out on here like Carr is.
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