Houston's Real Problem: Worst Defense in NFL - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

Exascor · 10-13-2005

Thought this was an interesting take on our start this year. Fangio has sure proved what he is good at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FootballOutsiders.com

For all the whining about the offensive line, Houston's real problem is that they have the worst defense in the NFL. They have given up 7.65 net yards per pass attempt, which puts them in a virtual tie with San Francisco (7.66) at the bottom of the league. But the 49ers have 15 sacks and four interceptions. The Texans are last in the league with four sacks and zero interceptions.

FOX Sports Power Rankings

EDIT: Added quote tags to ensure nobody thinks I'm claiming the statement as mine.

profan · 10-13-2005

I agee with you 100%. The Defense deserves to get just as much blame as the offensive line.

William.carter · 10-13-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by profan

I agee with you 100%. The Defense deserves to get just as much blame as the offensive line.

At least for the defense it's not a lack of talent. They have the athletes. I can only assume that the play calling on the defensive side is lacking. I haven't seen the aggression yet. They seem to be content with attempting to prevent big plays rather than pressuring the opposing QB. 3 man rush isn't getting it done. We have to get more aggressive on D. Maybe they are waiting for the O to start producing before they start opening themselves up to big plays on D. I'm at a total loss about it all at this point.

**Malloy** · 10-13-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by William.carter

At least for the defense it's not a lack of talent. They have the athletes. I can only assume that the play calling on the defensive side is lacking. I haven't seen the aggression yet. They seem to be content with attempting to prevent big plays rather than pressuring the opposing QB. 3 man rush isn't getting it done. We have to get more aggressive on D. Maybe they are waiting for the O to start producing before they start opening themselves up to big plays on D. I'm at a total loss about it all at this point.

Makes sense. Allowing big plays against your D would put the O under even more pressure, IMO something that we do NOT need right now

Bobo · 10-13-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exascor

Thought this was an interesting take on our start this year. Fangio has sure proved what he is good at.

"For all the whining about the offensive line, Houston's real problem is that they have the worst defense in the NFL. They have given up 7.65 net yards per pass attempt, which puts them in a virtual tie with San Francisco (7.66) at the bottom of the league. But the 49ers have 15 sacks and four interceptions. The Texans are last in the league with four sacks and zero interceptions."

FOX Sports Power Rankings

Their real problem is indeed the OL. The defense has made some stops during the season. Just think what the first game of the season would have been like if the defense was as porous as the OL. And for a good part of the Tennessee game, the defense kept the Texans in it as the score was just 10-9. The defense held Cincy to under 20 points. True, they have no takeaways -- real bad stat. And I wouldn't say the defense was even good. But they have had their moments, and you could say it was at least close to being mediocre -- a claim you certainly can't make for the OL.

the wonger need food · 10-13-2005

Now would be the time to be aggressive and try to make some plays to take pressure off of the offense. Sitting back and letting teams get big chunks of yards has been proven to be an unsuccessful formula to this point.

Look at the game against Pittsburgh in '02. True, the offensive was better than it is now, but the defense forced the issue and won that game.

TheOgre · 10-13-2005

Our defense has given up so many long, sustained drives. I bet we have given up close to as many 6-minute-plus drives as we have 3-and-outs.

Ibar_Harry · 10-13-2005

If you have read my posts you will notice I have been talking about the long sustained drives by the opposition in the 1st Qtr with resulting scores for some time. We are always in the hole at the beginning of the game putting pressure on the offense. I too have said the offense does not get enough opportunities while the other team is getting in rythm and moving the ball. I've also said I believe one of the problems with our offense is that it looks good going against our defense in practice which has lead to the misconception that we are improving. No, its a much bigger problem than most think and that is even more reason for firing Capers because he's suppose to know what he is doing with his defense. Casserly has been granting his every wish on defense for the last two years.

Against Buffalo the time of possession in the 1st qtr was out rageous and Loseman got into rythm. What has he done sense. In most games its a chess game going back and forth gaining field position. I believe one of the posts in another thread was pointing out we seldom get the ball in the other teams half of the field. If you are always starting at your 10, 20, and 30 yard lines you are going to find it hard to score. Long sustained drives are just not that numerous in most NFL games. Its a break here or there which results typically in a score. We can not pin the other team back on their goal line and get the ball back. We are constantly moving backwards from a field position point of view. That is not a road to success.

Coach C. · 10-13-2005

You are likely correct. Fangio's 3-4/Cover 2 scheme is not going to work in the NFL. It sends a mix message to your defense and makes them think to much. As a former defensive player, you run alot on instinct and that is how you make plays. Most plays are made on aggressive "chancey" plays. The 3-4 is a defensive scheme that was built on the idea of getting pressure. Until we drop the Cover 2 crap we will continue to give our offense the fewest amount of drives in the league.

**Double Barrel** · 10-13-2005

The worst defense in the NFL going up against the no. 1 offense in the NFL.

Honestly, as much as I subscribe to the "any given Sunday" philosophy, I'm not having warm, fuzzy feelings about Sunday night.

Coach Capers' strength is supposed to be defense. Surely this is a sign that something is terribly wrong inside the collective psyche of the team.

The idea of a 3-4/Cover 2 seems incredibly asinine, IMO. You drop back into soft coverage with only three DL, which allows the opposing team to run the ball with relative ease. This, in turn, forces our D to respect the run, and with soft coverage, those dinky passes are eating us alive.

Like Ibar Harry mentioned, we are getting killed with opening drives, which always seem to be a mix of runs and short passes. The Titans had a 10 minute opening drive against us! Talk about establishing a tone for the game. This cannot continue if we ever expect to win a game this year.

Exascor · 10-13-2005

While I do think the defense is as much to blame as the offense, I'm in no way saying that it's worse. This was a total team meltdown IMO. The quote was from the FOX Sports power rankings.

Just a clarification.

MightyTExan · 10-13-2005

Even with the points the offense has put up this season, if we had a crushing defense we probably would have won a couple of games.

seahawk2k · 10-13-2005

I don't think you guys really have the worst defense in the NFL, I can't really imagine a defense looking any worse than the one the Seahawks shredded Sunday. They really should have scored 50 on the Rams.
The more and more I read, the worse it looks for you guys. Although I'm starting to see a swing in mood that usually starts about wednesday after a loss. I'm starting to see a little optimism from some posters, which is good.
But, earlier on this thread it stated the Texans always give up a big drive to start the game. Ever since Holmgren has been here, whether it's been Jon Kitna, Trent Dilfer or Hasslebeck at qb, they almost always score. When they don't they go three and out. If they get past midfield, they will score, cause then they are rolling.

Scooter · 10-13-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach C.

You are likely correct. Fangio's 3-4/Cover 2 scheme is not going to work in the NFL. It sends a mix message to your defense and makes them think to much. As a former defensive player, you run alot on instinct and that is how you make plays. Most plays are made on aggressive "chancey" plays. The 3-4 is a defensive scheme that was built on the idea of getting pressure. Until we drop the Cover 2 crap we will continue to give our offense the fewest amount of drives in the league.

coach i dont think i've found a post of yours that i havent agreed with yet, quit it lol. the word in there that stands out to me is "instinct". most notably from our OLB's, there seems to be confusion and hesitation on 90% of the plays. this is because they have to read & react to the play as it unfolds as opposed to knowing what their assignment is before the snap and relying on football instinct to do the job. it's something i've said before, watch the OLB's as a perfect example of why we're hurting. when the ball is snapped the first thing they do is .... NOTHING. they wait to see the play, if it's one where they're supposed to rush, the linemen have 2 steps to setup and at that point there's nowhere to blitz except for right at someone. in coverage, they still initially do nothing and then drop back into a zone that's not covering anyone because receivers are already 1/2 way through their routes so they're just sitting in space.

Texas · 10-13-2005

It's simple. Our D has the talent doesnt apply it. Our Offensive line doesnt have the talent so therefore cant apply it. Whos more to blame? A few players on the D like Dunta are exempt from the non-apply theory of mine.

**Lucky** · 10-13-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOgre

Our defense has given up so many long, sustained drives. I bet we have given up close to as many 6-minute-plus drives as we have 3-and-outs.

I didn't go by time of possession, but the Texans have allowed 14 drives of 50+ yards after 4 games. While stopping the opposition 3-&-out by a total of 10.

The Texans offense has sustained 7 drives of 50+ yards and have been stopped 3-&-out on 14 occasions. Including 4 instances when the Texans punted while down by 2 or more scores.

It's bad anyway you look at it.

10-13-2005

Oh make no mistake about it, the Defense can and should be able to win us games. You don't get turnovers you don't get those easy FG points. Our kicker has made 5 FG this year, 5!!!!!! in four games. Our defense should be getting us some points, but how many points have we gotten over defensive turnovers? 0. Our defense is just not doing it. we have guys playing out of position and some are pretty raw. Wong (not to single him out) needs to be where Babin is, on the outside. When we had Wong, Walker, Sharper, Glenn we have one of the best left sides in football. Now I'm a believer in Babin and think that his poor play was a direct result of his shoulder injury. Wong just seems to be better on the outside, LOLB or ROLB. We've proven that it wasn't Sharpers fault because our defense is worse without him. Greenwood is getting lit up right now and is taking time to adjust. Peek needs to be getting the QB, he's almost there, but not yet. I knew it would take some time for this unit to play together because of so many transitions. Our CB's scare me. Dunta has had good games and has the fire, but he needs to pass that on now. He's our best CB and he's playing mostly the weaker WR. Our safety play is pretty bad right now it's pretty obvious they are getting burnt in the pass coverages. I suspect they will start coming around now, but for the most part this was expected.

dalemurphy · 10-14-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by William.carter

At least for the defense it's not a lack of talent. They have the athletes. I can only assume that the play calling on the defensive side is lacking. I haven't seen the aggression yet. They seem to be content with attempting to prevent big plays rather than pressuring the opposing QB. 3 man rush isn't getting it done. We have to get more aggressive on D. Maybe they are waiting for the O to start producing before they start opening themselves up to big plays on D. I'm at a total loss about it all at this point.

I totally disagree. I think the offense is only 2-3 players away from being in the top 1/3 of the league. A better TE and two OLmen and we're there. Also, it would help if our better players could crack the starting lineup.

Defensively, outside of DRob, our only plus players are our veterans: Wong, Payne... Robaire Smith is adequate and that's it. Defensively, we are in bad shape. We spent a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd on defense this year... unfortunately that netted us Buchanan and Travis Johnson.

nunusguy · 10-14-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

I think the offense is only 2-3 players away from being in the top 1/3 of the league.

Sorry Murph, but I gotta totally disagree with you because I think our offense
has only 2-3 players of the starting 11 "who aren't inferior" at their respective
positions compared to the league average.

MorKnolle · 10-14-2005

I definitely disagree that we have the worst defense in the NFL. Let's look at some of the stats so far this season:

25th in total yards allowed per game (346.2) - definitely not good but much
better than the 451.8 that the 49ers are giving up.
27th in yards per play (5.7) - also not good but obviously not the worst.
8th in 3rd down percentage (32.6%) - in the top 1/4 in the league in this
statistic.
31st in time of possession allowed, but that is as much the offense's fault as
the defense's.
29th in completion percentage allowed (68.4%) - also definitely not good, but
once again the same teams are below us.
23rd in passing yards allowed per game (227.5) - not good but definitely not
the worst in the league (SF at 343.6)
26th in rushing yards allowed (118.8), but 13th in yards per rush (3.8) and
we are one of three teams (Tampa Bay and New England) to not allow a
single run of over 20 yards this season. Teams get so many rushing yards
cause they have been up late in games and are trying to run out the
clock. Parker of Pittsburgh only had like 70 yards midway through the 4th.
20th in passing yards allowed (230.0) and tied for 4th fewest 20+ yard
passing plays allowed.

We are one of only four teams to allow more FGs than TDs, which is saying something too.
While we do only have four sacks in four games, which I admit is pretty pathetic, the Redskins also have four sacks in four games and the Panthers have five sacks in five games, so we are not the only team averaging 1.0 sack per game, and I don't think many people consider the Redskins or Panthers defenses bad. The turnovers issue is definitely dissapointing too, although the Ravens and Patriots, two of the top defenses, only have 3 takeaways and the Redskins only have 2.

While I am not saying our defense is great or anything, I am just pointing out that the statistics clearly show they are not the worst defense, and I would not consider them one of the eight worst defenses in the league. The turnovers and sacks are definitely an issue that need to be addressed, but for the most part the defense has held up, especially considering the positions that offense has put them in many times.

10-13-2005	#7
TheOgre Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Back in the cellar again Posts: 3,739 Rep Power: 16	Our defense has given up so many long, sustained drives. I bet we have given up close to as many 6-minute-plus drives as we have 3-and-outs. __________________ "...the Texans select...Adrian Peterson, RB, University of Oklahoma."

10-13-2005	#10
Double Barrel Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Section: Gridiron, Texas Age: 46 Posts: 27,056 Rep Power: 81571	The worst defense in the NFL going up against the no. 1 offense in the NFL. Honestly, as much as I subscribe to the "any given Sunday" philosophy, I'm not having warm, fuzzy feelings about Sunday night. Coach Capers' strength is supposed to be defense. Surely this is a sign that something is terribly wrong inside the collective psyche of the team. The idea of a 3-4/Cover 2 seems incredibly asinine, IMO. You drop back into soft coverage with only three DL, which allows the opposing team to run the ball with relative ease. This, in turn, forces our D to respect the run, and with soft coverage, those dinky passes are eating us alive. Like Ibar Harry mentioned, we are getting killed with opening drives, which always seem to be a mix of runs and short passes. The Titans had a 10 minute opening drive against us! Talk about establishing a tone for the game. This cannot continue if we ever expect to win a game this year. __________________ "FOOTBALL IS ONLY A DIVERSION." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS In Memoriam - 20 little angels

10-13-2005	#11
Exascor Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Atascocita Posts: 1,147 Rep Power: 4938	While I do think the defense is as much to blame as the offense, I'm in no way saying that it's worse. This was a total team meltdown IMO. The quote was from the FOX Sports power rankings. Just a clarification. __________________ I like you but...if zombies start to chase us I'm tripping you.

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10-13-2005	#2
profan Veteran Join Date: May 2004 Age: 49 Posts: 368 Rep Power: 10	I agee with you 100%. The Defense deserves to get just as much blame as the offensive line.

10-13-2005	#6
the wonger need food Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston Age: 43 Posts: 2,534 Rep Power: 1085	Now would be the time to be aggressive and try to make some plays to take pressure off of the offense. Sitting back and letting teams get big chunks of yards has been proven to be an unsuccessful formula to this point. Look at the game against Pittsburgh in '02. True, the offensive was better than it is now, but the defense forced the issue and won that game.

10-13-2005	#8
Ibar_Harry Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,219 Rep Power: 14	If you have read my posts you will notice I have been talking about the long sustained drives by the opposition in the 1st Qtr with resulting scores for some time. We are always in the hole at the beginning of the game putting pressure on the offense. I too have said the offense does not get enough opportunities while the other team is getting in rythm and moving the ball. I've also said I believe one of the problems with our offense is that it looks good going against our defense in practice which has lead to the misconception that we are improving. No, its a much bigger problem than most think and that is even more reason for firing Capers because he's suppose to know what he is doing with his defense. Casserly has been granting his every wish on defense for the last two years. Against Buffalo the time of possession in the 1st qtr was out rageous and Loseman got into rythm. What has he done sense. In most games its a chess game going back and forth gaining field position. I believe one of the posts in another thread was pointing out we seldom get the ball in the other teams half of the field. If you are always starting at your 10, 20, and 30 yard lines you are going to find it hard to score. Long sustained drives are just not that numerous in most NFL games. Its a break here or there which results typically in a score. We can not pin the other team back on their goal line and get the ball back. We are constantly moving backwards from a field position point of view. That is not a road to success.

10-13-2005	#9
Coach C. Hall of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SE Houston Posts: 1,422 Rep Power: 10	You are likely correct. Fangio's 3-4/Cover 2 scheme is not going to work in the NFL. It sends a mix message to your defense and makes them think to much. As a former defensive player, you run alot on instinct and that is how you make plays. Most plays are made on aggressive "chancey" plays. The 3-4 is a defensive scheme that was built on the idea of getting pressure. Until we drop the Cover 2 crap we will continue to give our offense the fewest amount of drives in the league.

10-13-2005	#12
MightyTExan It's go time! Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 787 Rep Power: 4036	Even with the points the offense has put up this season, if we had a crushing defense we probably would have won a couple of games.

10-13-2005	#13
seahawk2k Rookie Join Date: Oct 2005 Age: 28 Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	I don't think you guys really have the worst defense in the NFL, I can't really imagine a defense looking any worse than the one the Seahawks shredded Sunday. They really should have scored 50 on the Rams. The more and more I read, the worse it looks for you guys. Although I'm starting to see a swing in mood that usually starts about wednesday after a loss. I'm starting to see a little optimism from some posters, which is good. But, earlier on this thread it stated the Texans always give up a big drive to start the game. Ever since Holmgren has been here, whether it's been Jon Kitna, Trent Dilfer or Hasslebeck at qb, they almost always score. When they don't they go three and out. If they get past midfield, they will score, cause then they are rolling.

10-13-2005	#15
Texas Hall of Fame Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Clear Lake Age: 24 Posts: 1,030 Rep Power: 9	It's simple. Our D has the talent doesnt apply it. Our Offensive line doesnt have the talent so therefore cant apply it. Whos more to blame? A few players on the D like Dunta are exempt from the non-apply theory of mine.

10-13-2005	#17
SESupergenius Guest Posts: n/a	Oh make no mistake about it, the Defense can and should be able to win us games. You don't get turnovers you don't get those easy FG points. Our kicker has made 5 FG this year, 5!!!!!! in four games. Our defense should be getting us some points, but how many points have we gotten over defensive turnovers? 0. Our defense is just not doing it. we have guys playing out of position and some are pretty raw. Wong (not to single him out) needs to be where Babin is, on the outside. When we had Wong, Walker, Sharper, Glenn we have one of the best left sides in football. Now I'm a believer in Babin and think that his poor play was a direct result of his shoulder injury. Wong just seems to be better on the outside, LOLB or ROLB. We've proven that it wasn't Sharpers fault because our defense is worse without him. Greenwood is getting lit up right now and is taking time to adjust. Peek needs to be getting the QB, he's almost there, but not yet. I knew it would take some time for this unit to play together because of so many transitions. Our CB's scare me. Dunta has had good games and has the fire, but he needs to pass that on now. He's our best CB and he's playing mostly the weaker WR. Our safety play is pretty bad right now it's pretty obvious they are getting burnt in the pass coverages. I suspect they will start coming around now, but for the most part this was expected.

10-14-2005	#20
MorKnolle Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,210 Rep Power: 0	I definitely disagree that we have the worst defense in the NFL. Let's look at some of the stats so far this season: 25th in total yards allowed per game (346.2) - definitely not good but much better than the 451.8 that the 49ers are giving up. 27th in yards per play (5.7) - also not good but obviously not the worst. 8th in 3rd down percentage (32.6%) - in the top 1/4 in the league in this statistic. 31st in time of possession allowed, but that is as much the offense's fault as the defense's. 29th in completion percentage allowed (68.4%) - also definitely not good, but once again the same teams are below us. 23rd in passing yards allowed per game (227.5) - not good but definitely not the worst in the league (SF at 343.6) 26th in rushing yards allowed (118.8), but 13th in yards per rush (3.8) and we are one of three teams (Tampa Bay and New England) to not allow a single run of over 20 yards this season. Teams get so many rushing yards cause they have been up late in games and are trying to run out the clock. Parker of Pittsburgh only had like 70 yards midway through the 4th. 20th in passing yards allowed (230.0) and tied for 4th fewest 20+ yard passing plays allowed. We are one of only four teams to allow more FGs than TDs, which is saying something too. While we do only have four sacks in four games, which I admit is pretty pathetic, the Redskins also have four sacks in four games and the Panthers have five sacks in five games, so we are not the only team averaging 1.0 sack per game, and I don't think many people consider the Redskins or Panthers defenses bad. The turnovers issue is definitely dissapointing too, although the Ravens and Patriots, two of the top defenses, only have 3 takeaways and the Redskins only have 2. While I am not saying our defense is great or anything, I am just pointing out that the statistics clearly show they are not the worst defense, and I would not consider them one of the eight worst defenses in the league. The turnovers and sacks are definitely an issue that need to be addressed, but for the most part the defense has held up, especially considering the positions that offense has put them in many times.

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