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Old 10-12-2005   #21
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IMO there isn't any reason to fire anyone during the season. First, change for change's sake is unlikely to improve the team this season. Second, the talent pool during the off-season will be much larger. From a business sense the only reason I could see McNair making an in-season change is if the Texans go 0-9+ and he wants to keep fans interested by putting in an interim coach and letting the fans know something different is coming. Real hard on the interim coach as the players probably would mail it in at that point--although some of them look like they are Fed-Ex'ing it in at this point.
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Old 10-13-2005   #22
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Yeah I think that too at times, but I do not want to belive it.
Unfortunately, it's true. You could dig up Vince Lombardi and he wouldn't turn this team around this season.

Honest opinion, I see Capers gone at the end of this season but not any time sooner.

Casserly will stay on board until he resigns (I don't see McNair firing him). So it'll be Casserly's responsibility of finding Capers replacement. Something I'm not too comfortbale with given his recent track record of replacing coaches (Richie Petitbon after Joe Gibbs in Washington, Norv Turner after Richie Petitbon, Capers in Houston).

What happens after the new coach is brought in and is given this team? Well, we all saw Jimmy Johnson go 1-15 in Dallas his first year with a talentless team. But eventually he was able to turn it around.

So for those expecting improvement this season with a firing, it's simply not going to happen. There's hope of improvement next season with a new coaching staff but that's all it is...hope. When those hopes are dashed (and they will be after another sub-.500 season), where then will you turn with the complaining?

Or is it possible that those complaining might want to step back and look at a bigger picture? Success is not a given in this league. And any success that does come comes with time. Unless of course you can point to some other recent team that has gone thru a make-over and turned things around and win on a consistent basis as an example of what you're expecting.
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Old 10-13-2005   #23
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
There are some that come in here with the "fire everyone today" banter, but honestly, I think you'll find more people have moderate views on the subject. I am a proud member of the Fire Capers Club (lol), but I am not saying do it tomorrow. I realize that firing him tomorrow won't solve anything. However, I'll say this - keeping him around won't solve much, either. It's more an issue of who's available.
I agree. My position as a member of the Fire Capers Club is for Mr. McNair to release him when the season is over.

McNair is a class act, and firing the HC mid-season is not professional (it reeks of a classic Bud Adams move).

Plus, prospective applicants for the HC position will look at how the front office treated Coach Capers in his last season when making their decision.

So while there might be quite a few "knee-jerk reaction" opinions, we must bear in mind that this is an internet forum where anyone can voice their opinion, including trolls, opposing teams' fans, grumpy old men, and 12 year olds.

There really is no need for ugliness towards fellow fans, though. Everyone has a right to an opinion, even the pots who call the kettles black.
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Old 10-13-2005   #24
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Originally Posted by Vinny
There is nothing knee-jerk about our last 13 games where we are a solid 3-10 with a short bus offense that can't throw the ball whatsoever. Just look up the passing totals in those games....they are brutal. We are going backwards and doing it in an ugly manner.
Yes, Vinny and that's why I would opt to bring in someone like Dan Reeves who has had some up and downs, but he would be a good interim replacement and a possible long term solution. I just think we are doing more damage than good by continuing down our current path. We need fundamental change and right now. Sorry, we will disagree as usual, but respectfully......................
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Old 10-13-2005   #25
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Yes, Vinny and that's why I would opt to bring in someone like Dan Reeves who has had some up and downs, but he would be a good interim replacement and a possible long term solution. I just think we are doing more damage than good by continuing down our current path. We need fundamental change and right now. Sorry, we will disagree as usual, but respectfully......................
Why in the world would any veteran coach come into a situation like ours with an "Interim" tag? If you have a replacement in your current staff (like Palmer) that could take over and run the team for the remainder of the year-make him the interim HC. If he's successful then he might be considered for the full time position. But...do you honestly think Dan Reeves, Art Shell or Jimmy Johnson would come in as the "Interim" HC with the hopes they are possibly the long term solution?
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Old 10-13-2005   #26
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Default The first step to recovery begins when denial ends

I don’t think most fans expect firing Capers to turn this season around. I also find it funny that some actually feel that firing him now means this season is lost.

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If we fire Capers and Casserly then the players are standing there the next day, KNOWING that their entire season is 'down the drain'. That they are starting completely over from day one with not only an entire new offensive scheme, but a new philosophy, defense scheme, incorrect personel to run either and the odds of them winning a game just went from 'slim' to 'absolutely,absolutely, ZERO'.
I am sorry to tell you, but this season is already lost. Do we need to wait until they lose two more games to the Seahawks and Colts to pronounce the patient dead? At what point in time do we decide that we need to start preparing for 2006? 0-4, or 0-6, or 0-8?


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“I don't know about anyone else, but if I was a player I would find it much more 'dispiriting' to know that Bob McNair had just 'mailed in' the entire season.”
I am not worried about the players being dispirited about McNair “mailing” it in. When it pretty obvious that they gave up on Capers and crew at the end of LAST YEAR. Their performance on the field reeks of a team that does not believe anymore. It reminds me a lot of the situation in Miami last year. The players realized that Wandestat was not going to take them anywhere. This lack of belief led them to call the season over pretty quickly. Rather than waste the rest of the year, management got Wandestat to “step down” and they finished out the year with someone else in charge.

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IF, and that is a HUGE word, but IF there was even a slim chance that this action, firing Capers or Casserly, would be something positive, I don't doubt that Bob McNair would take it in a heartbeat. But he is a business man and understands that action simply for the sake of action with NO positive result is even MORE disheartening to any organization than to simply be patient and take your action when it WILL do something positive
The reason why you make the move now is not to save this year (it is already finished). It is start finding out what you have to build with. The rest of the year should be like the preseason, a time to evaluate what the Texans have to work with. They should fire Capers and Fangio and let Pendry run the team for the rest of the year. This move would allow Pendry to show what he can do. Of course, I expect it to prove that he is no better at running a team or an Offense than Capers and Palmer. However, that fact will at least be proven. People are always saying that Hoke is a DC in the making. Let him prove it for the rest of the year. The same thing with the players. We should be running out different guys off the bench to find out what they can do. If the players are so dispirited with the thought of starting over, then they need to move on because that is what will be happening with the Texans. They should experiment with different schemes and different personnel. The Texans have a great opportunity to spend the next few months of this lost season preparing for the future. The time to start rebuilding is NOW. To end the denial and start moving forward will allow for something POSITIVE to come out of this situation.
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Old 10-13-2005   #27
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Originally Posted by Exascor
Why in the world would any veteran coach come into a situation like ours with an "Interim" tag? If you have a replacement in your current staff (like Palmer) that could take over and run the team for the remainder of the year-make him the interim HC. If he's successful then he might be considered for the full time position. But...do you honestly think Dan Reeves, Art Shell or Jimmy Johnson would come in as the "Interim" HC with the hopes they are possibly the long term solution?
Yes, you say there are no guranntees, but if you want a shot we will afford you the opportunity. I think they would jump at the opportunity knowing if they wait there will be a lot of competition at the end of the season. We have a lot going for us. The facilities, the fans, the owner, and yes even the players. If you don't try you will never know. I don't think its as impossible as you think. Money also talks.
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Old 10-13-2005   #28
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Yes, you say there are no guranntees, but if you want a shot we will afford you the opportunity. I think they would jump at the opportunity knowing if they wait there will be a lot of competition at the end of the season. We have a lot going for us. The facilities, the fans, the owner, and yes even the players. If you don't try you will never know. I don't think its as impossible as you think. Money also talks.
That's why teams usually wait until AFTER the season to select a new head coach. I don't see Capers being let go before the end of the season unless there's someone not coaching now that Mcnair feels is ideal and wants to give him the reigns early. I just doubt anyone would take the position without a 3+ year contract.
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Old 10-13-2005   #29
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Originally Posted by Huge
You're not this bad unless you've got both (bad coaching and lack of talent).
Agreed!

If you have talent on a team it'll show, despite bad coaching.
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Old 10-13-2005   #30
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I am sorry to tell you, but this season is already lost.
well why didn't you say so. Heck, now the Texans can just send in the letter to the NFL informing them that we intend to forfeit the rest of the season. I mean why bother spending all that money actually traveling to and playing a game. We can just fire everyone now, get the healing time needed for our players to return next season without a single injury, and begin searching for our next Head Coach and all the coach's that come with him. Thanks for letting me in on the secret that this season is over, that way as a season ticket holder I can save myself some money and not come to the game.

for all you 'the season is over' so lets start building towards next season, thank you for clearing up the insanity that runs rampant on this board regarding firing everyone for losing a game. I now understand at least why anyone would think this was an answer to what to do with the Texans, cause after all 'the seasons over already'. What a bunch of quitters.

We have 12 games left in the season. I can remember when 12 games WAS a season. Last year there were 3 or 4 teams that were 0-4 or even 1-4 and STILL made the playoffs. I bet they thought their season was over also. But guess what, it ain't over till the fat lady sings. And I ain't hearing any singing yet from the Texans local fat lady. All I am hearing is a bunch of whining crying sniveling quitter type kindergarten girls crying over how much this season is ruined, ALREADY.

Do me a favor, wipe the tears off with the hem of your dress, take your ball, and go home, like a good little quitter girl. See if Mommy will kiss your boo-boo and give you a lollypop. Just stop trying to convince me that with 12 games left in the season that we should all just QUIT. Losers.
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Old 10-13-2005   #31
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Originally Posted by thegr8fan
well why didn't you say so. Heck, now the Texans can just send in the letter to the NFL informing them that we intend to forfeit the rest of the season. I mean why bother spending all that money actually traveling to and playing a game. We can just fire everyone now, get the healing time needed for our players to return next season without a single injury, and begin searching for our next Head Coach and all the coach's that come with him. Thanks for letting me in on the secret that this season is over, that way as a season ticket holder I can save myself some money and not come to the game.

for all you 'the season is over' so lets start building towards next season, thank you for clearing up the insanity that runs rampant on this board regarding firing everyone for losing a game. I now understand at least why anyone would think this was an answer to what to do with the Texans, cause after all 'the seasons over already'. What a bunch of quitters.

We have 12 games left in the season. I can remember when 12 games WAS a season. Last year there were 3 or 4 teams that were 0-4 or even 1-4 and STILL made the playoffs. I bet they thought their season was over also. But guess what, it ain't over till the fat lady sings. And I ain't hearing any singing yet from the Texans local fat lady. All I am hearing is a bunch of whining crying sniveling quitter type kindergarten girls crying over how much this season is ruined, ALREADY.

Do me a favor, wipe the tears off with the hem of your dress, take your ball, and go home, like a good little quitter girl. See if Mommy will kiss your boo-boo and give you a lollypop. Just stop trying to convince me that with 12 games left in the season that we should all just QUIT. Losers.
No sense in insulting the posters and calling them names pete.
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Old 10-13-2005   #32
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the intention of that post was to show how, IMHO, the people calling for firing everyone now advocates, are just simply QUITTING. Just like a 5 year old child would do when they weren't getting their way.

Firing anyone at this point in the season, or trying to say that 'the season is already over' is as infantile as it gets. It is a useless, infantile, not well thought out decision that is being ranted on out of frustration, and aggrevation, and worse of all CONFUSION.

where does the Confusion come in at? Cause not one person on this board can definitely point to a single problem that we can change and it will 'fix' this team. We sit there hopefull every Sunday and are disappointed repeatedly and we simply don't know WHY. So we throw a temper tantrum kindergarten fit and get stuck on the 'fire them now' train of thought. And then, like a 5 year old, we stubbornly stay with that thought till someone gives them the satisfaction of 'letting us win' by giving in. Guess what, McNair already gave in. He already let all the 5 year old children ranting about fire him now win and fired Palmer.

And look what that got us, 2 more loss's.

And to add insult to injury we know have the 'the season is already over' batch trying to make me believe that they are correct. They are absolutely irrevocably WRONG. And unlike McNair I ain't got to sit there and watch them throw a temper tantrum, kicking their feet, till they get their way. I just have to say, GROW UP.

If the shoe fits wear it, but I ain't trying to put it on anyone in particular's foot.
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Old 10-13-2005   #33
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just say it without the insults...they just provoke a reaction with more insults.
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Old 10-13-2005   #34
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I understand Vinny and will try and do so in the future. maybe I will just use the smilies that the board has already provided.

season is already over
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Old 10-13-2005   #35
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Originally Posted by thegr8fan
Guess what, McNair already gave in. He already let all the 5 year old children ranting about fire him now win and fired Palmer.
Do you know this for a fact, or is it pure conjecture on your part?

I'm not calling you out, but it is my impression that Coach Capers made this decision (firing Palmer) due to philosophical reasons. Palmer was forced to run Capers' offensive schemes instead of his own. Pendry, on the other hand, is an OC who sees eye-to-eye with Capers. The decision to let Palmer go should have been made in the off-season. (It seems drastic and desperate to do it two games into a season, IMO.)

Anyway, it is an interesting take you have, thegr8fan, that fans are quitting on the team. I understand you pov, but I think you need to look no further than the football field to find the reason for current attitudes among some fans.

The players have quit on the coaches, and it's not just fans making this observation. D.Rob, among other players, have made comments, and national analysts are jumping to the same conclusion. They play with no fire, no heart, and certainly no winning attitude.

While I do not advocate firing Coach Capers during the season, I certainly understand the perspective that he has lost control of the team from the standpoint of leadership.
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Old 10-13-2005   #36
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the intention of that post was to show how, IMHO, the people calling for firing everyone now advocates, are just simply QUITTING. Just like a 5 year old child would do when they weren't getting their way.

Firing anyone at this point in the season, or trying to say that 'the season is already over' is as infantile as it gets. It is a useless, infantile, not well thought out decision that is being ranted on out of frustration, and aggrevation, and worse of all CONFUSION.
I would contend that saying that the season is NOT OVER is just a case of denial. I keep hearing that maybe things will turn out differently if we just stay the course, like the Panthers last year. The difference was that the Panthers were a veteran team that had success the year before and were the victim of terrible injuries. Instead, the Texans are a team with no such history of success. In fact, their regression started at the mid point of LAST SEASON. These problems were on display during the last game of that season and continued through training camp and into this season. Again, when this season considered over: 0-4, 0-6, 0-10?


Quote:
Guess what, McNair already gave in. He already let all the 5 year old children ranting about fire him now win and fired Palmer. And look what that got us, 2 more loss's.
I don’t understand this fear of change. Does anyone feel that firing Palmer cost us the last two games? Instead, we can now see that the problems with the offense went a lot deeper than just Palmer. Again, I say let’s fire Capers and Fangio now. We can promote Pendry and Hoke and see what they do with until the end of year. By doing that, we evaluate their abilities to coach in the NFL.

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Thanks for letting me in on the secret that this season is over, that way as a season ticket holder I can save myself some money and not come to the game.
I am sorry that dealing with the fact that the Texans are a horrible team right now and the thought of rebuilding is so terrible to you. At this point, you sound just as childish and irrational as the people you are ready to insult. The first step to correcting any problem is to accept the situation, and move forward (not deny and continue on the same path). As a Texans’ fan, I want to see them start the rebuilding NOW. They have the rest of this season to try different things and personnel to evaluate just how bare the talent table really is. Will they lose games? Yes, and I will accept that because it means that we are learning. It sounds much better than accepting the same disappointing results over and over again.
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Old 10-13-2005   #37
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The players have quit on the coaches, and it's not just fans making this observation. D.Rob, among other players, have made comments, and national analysts are jumping to the same conclusion. They play with no fire, no heart, and certainly no winning attitude.
That is, was, and will always be the STANDARD response from fans of any football team that they root for, when their football team is losing.

"They play with no fire, no heart, and certainly no winning attitude". Go to any football message board . . . pro, college, or high school of any, any team that's lost more than two in a row . . and you will find that standard copout line.

No offense, but it is a copout. Because it reveals the unwillingness to recognize a BAD football team. And at the end the day, when you sweep away all the BS, the football team is BAD because the players are BAD. You can pour all the fire, heart, and winning attitude kool-aid down Victor Riley's throat, and it won't improve his pass-blocking one bit. Either he has speed and quickness, or he doesn't.

Now, does that mean I think all the "fire so and so" posters are copouts? Well, as thegr8fan put it . . . if the shoe fits . .

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Old 10-13-2005   #38
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You can pour all the fire, heart, and winning attitude kool-aid down Victor Riley's throat, and it won't improve his pass-blocking one bit. Either he has speed and quickness, or he doesn't.



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This is a bad example. Not only was Victor chosen to solve our LT issues (real or imagined) this year, he is probably being ordained as we speak to fix our RT problems. Obviously, he doesn't need the kool-aid. (Runner types with a smirk).
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Old 10-13-2005   #39
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Originally Posted by Marcus
That is, was, and will always be the STANDARD response from fans of any football team that they root for, when their football team is losing.
That's fine and dandy, but don't you think it could be TRUE some of the time?

We're 0-4. And by anyone's reasonable analysis, we'll probably be 0-6 in two weeks from now.

We fired our OC two games into a new season, a move that smells of desperation.

Most of these players were on a team last year that went 7-9 (should have been 8-8) and were looking forward to improving this season.

You can opine that it is a "cop out" all you want, but please show me where, exactly, this team has played with any desire and fire in four games. Maybe your deep insight can educate all of us regular fans that just don't see it.

Lack of talent? Perhaps, I won't argue with you.

But you simply cannot deny that they have played flat the first four games of this season (even going back to last season, as well).
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Old 10-13-2005   #40
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No offense, but it is a copout. Because it reveals the unwillingness to recognize a BAD football team. And at the end the day, when you sweep away all the BS, the football team is BAD because the players are BAD. You can pour all the fire, heart, and winning attitude kool-aid down Victor Riley's throat, and it won't improve his pass-blocking one bit. Either he has speed and quickness, or he doesn't.
I have to disagree on this one. A GOOD football team is the result of coaching AND the players. I tend to feel in this case it is a result of the coaching. The talents of the players are what they are. This team was making progress and at one time last year resembled an up and coming unit. However, they have been regressing for almost a year now. I don’t think their talent suddenly left them. Instead, I feel that the players no longer buy into the systems they are being asked to run. They resemble the Browns and Dolphins of last season. Both teams had coaches that outstayed their welcome. No one can deny that both teams have made great strides with the new coaches they brought in. Good coaches are able to get players to buy into their systems and put them in the position to succeed. I don’t see that happening here. If Riley doesn't have the speed to play LT, why is he is playing there? I really feel that a different coach could get better results from the players we have. I also don’t feel that Capers and Fangio could make another team better. Finally, the players do need to be held accountable. By removing Capers and Fangio from the equation, you remove that excuse from the players. By making changes we can also find out the strengths and weakness of the players.
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